GT5 vs. GT3

[Beat the Beat]

Hopefully a lot of the cars will have been given a decent premium base model to work from, so they might be able to knock up another 40 Skylines pretty quickly for GT6 without remodelling every single feature from scratch.

GT6 will not take as long and will likely be dubbed 'The game GT5 should have been' but I've been saying that for years


I think the reason GT5 runs at 4xMSAA at 720p is the memory footprint is about the same as the 1080p with 2xMSAA. They might change things around for the next game if they want to improve performance.

 

[steve30x]

do people realize that gt3 was the last true gt game to come out ?? and that was back in 2001 .. so its been over 9 years since a main gt game was release .... and no i dont count gt4 . cause that game was nothing more but a **Expansion Pack*

Thats your point of view. Not everybody would agree with that statement. I think GT4 was better gameplay wise than GT3 but the graphics were slightly worse in GT4 than GT3.

 

[Centura]

I think GT5 is more like GT4.8

Improved physics, 16 cars, weather, day/night transitions, etc is not good enough for you?

Tell it to every sports game publisher, ever. And Activision. All the recent COD games have been in the same engine. Just like all the Guitar Hero games they pumped out. I hope they just put tracks and cars on DLC eventually, but it's far from guaranteed.

Because those publishers only care about money, and it's clearly working out well for them. Luckily Sony is not like that.

 

[Rossticles]

I was thinking the same thing a few weeks ago. It seems that GT and GT3 were more projects to see what the PS and PS2 consoles are capable of, respectively. GT2 and GT4 were both much more impressive than the ones before it. With the release of GT5 taking so long I'm left to believe there will be a GT6 on the PS3 that will be even more impressive than this upcoming release.

 

[steve30x]

I was thinking the same thing a few weeks ago. It seems that GT and GT3 were more projects to see what the PS and PS2 consoles are capable of, respectively. GT2 and GT4 were both much more impressive than the ones before it. With the release of GT5 taking so long I'm left to believe there will be a GT6 on the PS3 that will be even more impressive than this upcoming release.

I doubt GT6 will be much better because in an interview with KY he said he was Disapointed with the power of the PS3 because it didnt have the power to do any better with GT5.

 

[Griffith500]

I doubt GT6 will be much better because in an interview with KY he said he was Disapointed with the power of the PS3 because it didnt have the power to do any better with GT5.

That doesn't mean they can't add content or non-impacting features (like a full-on track editor, for example.)

He just meant that, technically, it'd be struggle to have much more happening on the track at once, that's all.

Imagine having all Standards brought up to Premium level, with race mods for a similar proportion of them as in the past. New circuits, new customisation options, livery editor? There may be more that can be added to the online aspects. Et cetera.

 

[rofajole]

I doubt GT6 will be much better because in an interview with KY he said he was Disapointed with the power of the PS3 because it didnt have the power to do any better with GT5.

That's not what he said. He said that he could pull of a much more "powerful" game if the technology was up to date.

 

[SleazyBig slim]

Heh, good argument. But I'll only say that to myself if I hadn't any other game to play on my PS3. Plus there were hella many versions of GT3 .. Is it ?

Comparing GT5 with GT3, GT5 is definitely a big step forward even though Kaz said the PS3 can't handle what's inside his mind. We don't even know what does this man planned to do.

I'm wondering why can't the PS3 handle full GT5 .. let's say if Sony released an upgraded version of PS3 (double the processor speed and all that stuff) .. Is it possible ? And why not ?

You bring up a good point about Kaz's statement that he wishes he could do more but can't due to hardware limitations. Sony has now totally revamped there PlayStation division and now the developers will have first hand input on the hardware design for consoles from here on out. Basicly Kaz will be able to go to Sony and say "hey this is what I want to do in GT PS4...." and Sony will make sure the console has the power and abilities to meet his vision as well as there other developers visions as best as possible. The developers get to design the consoles from here on out basicly. Also this means PS4 will be easier to develope for. Witch means hopefully GT wont take as long to make next time.

 

[Strittan]

I think GT5 is more like GT4.8

Oh really? Did GT4 have damage, weather, day/night transition, 16 cars on track, online mode or racing modifications (I'm sure I missed a couple of features as well).

 

[tvvisted]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/gran-turismo-5-prologue-analysis

Am not too good with this fancy 2x AA and 4x AA but what I know is "full HD" at 1080p is the best outcome, or more AA would be better, so running it down to 720p??

 

[JM1681]

Did GT4 have damage, weather, day/night transition, 16 cars on track, online mode or racing modifications...

Does GT5 have over 800 cars without interiors like GT4?

I suppose I could also get into the fact that of the 6 features you mention, only 1/5 of the cars in GT5 will benefit from all of them...

...but I think I'll leave that alone.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Does GT5 have over 800 cars without interiors like GT4?

I suppose I could also get into the fact that of the 6 features you mention, only 1/5 of the cars in GT5 will benefit from all of them...

...but I think I'll leave that alone.

With the possible exception of racing modifications, all cars in GT5 will benefit from the things that he mentioned.

 

[chepu]

Thats been my thinking since the 2009 TGS, Im pretty happy because GT5 Engine its like the New Gen GT platform, with everything we've wanted, therefore all upcoming Titles will be Pretty much the best racing sims ever.

And, have to admit it has taken its time, but it will payoff.

 

[Greyum]

Does GT5 have over 800 cars without interiors like GT4?

I suppose I could also get into the fact that of the 6 features you mention, only 1/5 of the cars in GT5 will benefit from all of them...

...but I think I'll leave that alone.

Of those 6 features, 5 of those benefit all cars, so...

 

[Dazzla]

GT3 is still the best game of the series for me, what it brought to the table at that time was absolutely unbelievable.

I have huge expectations for GT5 and I feel like it will finally take that top spot away from GT3. We've waited for this game for 6 years and I've gone through two PS3's waiting for it...it better be great

 

[JM1681]

With the possible exception of racing modifications, all cars in GT5 will benefit from the things that he mentioned.

I humbly have to disagree.

Gimped damage, no interior view to necessitate or enjoy full weather effects (Rain/snow on a windshield), no racing mods, and undoubtedly many other features (Such as the ability to change wheels) will not fall on Standard model cars (Not starting that debate, just making my point).

To me, that either makes this a 200+ car, HD update to GT4, or a sub-standard version of GT5.

 

[E28]

Because those publishers only care about money, and it's clearly working out well for them. Luckily Sony is not like that.

Instead they're too busy trying to get 60FPS all the time and not releasing a 'flagship title'

 

[SolidSnakex]

Gimped damage? The visual damage won't be the same but the mechanical damage will be. Isn't that the most important aspect of damage? And while you won't get the rain/snow on the windshield effect, your car will still be just as unstable on those surfaces as the premiums.

 

[JM1681]

Gimped damage? The visual damage won't be the same but the mechanical damage will be. Isn't that the most important aspect of damage? And while you won't get the rain/snow on the windshield effect, your car will still be just as unstable on those surfaces as the premiums.

No offense, but if it isn't the same as it is on the Premiums, then that is what I would call gimped.

I completely agree with and am sure the vehicles will be affected by weather regardless. It doesn't change the fact that every car in GT4 already did that.

I apologize, but there is little someone can say to convince me that GT5 is an example of Kaz's pursuit of perfection.

In all honesty though, I could care less about interiors, damage, or weather; none of that is irking me the way being unable to change wheels on Standard model cars is.

I think for something that simple to be omitted from the Standard models potentially speaks quite loudly about what else might be omitted from them.

 

[Griffith500]

No offense, but if it isn't the same as it is on the Premiums, then that is what I would call gimped.

I completely agree with and am sure the vehicles will be affected by weather regardless. It doesn't change the fact that every car in GT4 already did that.

I apologize, but there is little someone can say to convince me that GT5 is an example of Kaz's pursuit of perfection.

In all honesty though, I could care less about interiors, damage, or weather; none of that is irking me the way being unable to change wheels on Standard model cars is.

I think for something that simple to be omitted from the Standard models potentially speaks quite loudly about what else might be omitted from them.

If none of us has even seen GT5 yet, how can we convince each other of anything?

You're assuming the omission of aftermarket wheel options from the Standards is a simple matter. You have no idea why, and probably never will. But, rest assured, that if it is that simple, it'll be patched in due course.

 

[JM1681]

If none of us has even seen GT5 yet, how can we convince each other of anything?

Fair enough

You're assuming the omission of aftermarket wheel options from the Standards is a simple matter. You have no idea why, and probably never will. But, rest assured, that if it is that simple, it'll be patched in due course.

Again, fair enough.

I imagine the aftermarket wheels have become MUCH more detailed for the Premium cars, right down to weight affecting performance.

However, with all of the other stipulations in place about what will and will not affect Standard model cars, why not simply use the existing wheels textures (Converted up to HD, just as the cars were), and perhaps not have them alter the performance charactersitics of the car?

You're 100% correct that I can say this and have no knowledge whether or not what I'm suggesting would add another year to development (I can't imagine it will, but hypothetically speaking). It just seems like a simple solution to a perturbing problem, that we shouldn't have to discuss in the first place, because Polyphony Digitial is BETTER than to have left things this way.

 

[Breakzero]

So is it definately confirmed that there is no wheel change on standard models???

Anyways back to topic, I suppose the problem comes for PD as they take 5 years to make a game for the latest model playstation (PS3 in this instance).

Taking so long to create a game means that obviously the console is going to be almost out of date before you even release the game. As far as i know, this is, I suppose an example of Moore's Law coming into effect.

How can they produce a title such as GT5 or 6 to be released within a reasonable time of the new console hitting the stores? Especially now the workload in creating such a game is increasing almost exponentially to meet Kaz's Dreams! (the guy needs some kind of supervisor who can time plan lol)

anyways that's what I think.

 

[Tenacious D]

Still people complain about the wheels, as if that was the most important mod you could do to a car. Seriously...

I know some people prefer GT3 to 4, because you could do donuts in GT3 or whatever. But GT4 was a much better, much larger game. Mid-engine cars behaved like mid-engined cars, not front-engined cars with a slight balance difference, and there are plenty of other improvements, like Photo Mode. And I know that GT3 sold about 4 million more copies to GT4's near-11 million, but then GT3 was also out four years longer.

I eventually felt about GT3 the same way I did Forza 2: the game was too small. The size, scope and sheer power the PS3 gives the GT5 engine is going to have me racing, modding and snapping pics until GT6 comes out. Assuming the world holds together... *prays to God*

And on GT6, I expect it to be less than the size of GT4 or GTPSP, unless SONY ponys up the funds to give Kaz a proper sized modeling team. GT6 will require massive content expansion to approach what's available for GT5. They need modelers badly, because making these cars and tracks has become a huge task. Hopefully, SONY will understand that investing in the Polyphony team is their wisest move.

 

[Breakzero]

Still people complain about the wheels, as if that was the most important mod you could do to a car. Seriously...

I know some people prefer GT3 to 4, because you could do donuts in GT3 or whatever. But GT4 was a much better, much larger game. Mid-engine cars behaved like mid-engined cars, not front-engined cars with a slight balance difference, and there are plenty of other improvements, like Photo Mode. And I know that GT3 sold about 4 million more copies to GT4's near-11 million, but then GT3 was also out four years longer.

I eventually felt about GT3 the same way I did Forza 2: the game was too small. The size, scope and sheer power the PS3 gives the GT5 engine is going to have me racing, modding and snapping pics until GT6 comes out. Assuming the world holds together... *prays to God*

And on GT6, I expect it to be less than the size of GT4 or GTPSP, unless SONY ponys up the funds to give Kaz a proper sized modeling team. GT6 will require massive content expansion to approach what's available for GT5. They need modelers badly, because making these cars and tracks has become a huge task. Hopefully, SONY will understand that investing in the Polyphony team is their wisest move.

I agree completey. PD needs a massive expansion to their modeling team, and/or a revolutionary new way to model cars faster and easier because 6 months per car is ridicularse!

 

[SolidSnakex]

And on GT6, I expect it to be less than the size of GT4 or GTPSP, unless SONY ponys up the funds to give Kaz a proper sized modeling team. GT6 will require massive content expansion to approach what's available for GT5. They need modelers badly, because making these cars and tracks has become a huge task. Hopefully, SONY will understand that investing in the Polyphony team is their wisest move.

I don't think the issue is with Sony not wanting to spend the money for additional modelers. The game has a 60m budget after all. The issue simply could be finding modelers that are skilled enough to produce cars to the standards that are required for a premium model. There is no game around, rather on consoles or PC's, that have the level of detail that GT5's premiums have. And if obviously takes some very dedicated and skilled people to pull off that detail.

 

[Beat the Beat]

Are they making all their models from nothing but photograph references? Because if they are they should be able to speed things up with manufacturer data or laser modelling. Buying an old car, stripping it down and laser scanning each part might even be cheaper than the time it takes to model a car by eye at that level, you'd still have to clean up the data but it would be a reliable starting point.

 

[JM1681]

Still people complain about the wheels, as if that was the most important mod you could do to a car...

Have you ever gone from a 28lb wheel to a 15lb wheel? Believe me, it's important

Aside from that though, wheels are a way to make your car your own. Not being able to change them may not be the end all be all, but it's a fault and in a world as individual as cars, it's a big one.

...GT4 was a much better, much larger game...

Much larger, yes.
Much better, subjective.

...Anyways back to topic...

Good call.

Sorry for the thread jack.

 

[SagarisGTB]

lol. How can you compare the great GT3 to a game that doesn't even have SSR11.

And for all those claiming that GT5 is adding day/night and weather. Well, the day/night is only proven to be for a few courses so far and weather for not much more. And tracks like Eiger, La Sarthe, HSR, Monza and Toscana aren't even that good in the first place. For me, it serves very little purpose to add a half fulfilled feature.

 

[Tenacious D]

The issue simply could be finding modelers that are skilled enough to produce cars to the standards that are required for a premium model. There is no game around, rather on consoles or PC's, that have the level of detail that GT5's premiums have. And if obviously takes some very dedicated and skilled people to pull off that detail.

Err... I think there are probably several hundred which could manage the quality of work, and are in or would relocate to Tokyo. But there are a couple of things I forgot about:

• Security. Leaks from team Polyphony never happen. And this is undoubtedly a huge issue with farming out work to outside companies, and why Kaz never does it.
• Polyphony is as tight knit as a family, or a ninja clan. The team are completely devoted to Kaz and Gran Turismo, as much as a person can be, to even sacrificing their lives to live at the studio for years now.

This would whittle down available candidates quite a bit.

 

[Stradivis]

I don't think GT6 will be out for the PS4. They'll cycle this engine, made for PS3, to do it.

Kaz will test ideas, and use them in GT6 (like he did with B-Spec in GT4, for example) before they're fully accomplished in GT7.

Also, there's always room for improvement, and Kaz knows it. The only thing I'd like to see, is that they don't remove tracks from one GT to the next one.