GT6 PP issues online

[Kelvari]

I'm sure this is probably going to end up turning into a harsh thread of "L2P" and such, but I'm going to speak my mind anyway, because this is something that has been bothering me since GT5.

Whenever I go to an online lobby, I can have a car that is sitting exactly at the PP limit, or very close to (ex: 495/500PP, or even 500/500 PP), and still end up in last place before the first lap is even half-done. In a 500 PP race, for instance, I wound up almost 1'15" down in 5 laps of Laguna Seca with a 495PP car.

I've already cleared all of the offline races, save for the Red Bull Standard cup, with gold, but it's just disheartening to lose race after race after race in online mode, and not have any idea of what to do to actually stand a chance.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sorry buddy and I'm not trying to be harsh here, but if L2P means learn to play or learn to drive more accurately, that's really the answer. Forget anything you've done offline, it's nothing compared to the competition level of some online lobbies. Couple of questions though.

1. Do you have the right tires on? Make sure you have max allowed tires.
2. Did you tune the cars? Check out the tuning forum, scan a few of the popular garages and try out some of their tunes and see how you like them.
3. Do you know the tracks? Many online drivers have run hundreds of laps at each track and this helps a lot.
4. Have you run any TTs to see where you stack up to the rest of the world? Try the new FT-1 TT, it keeps SRF off which is common in most online lobbies. Give it a spin and see if you can gold or better.

As always, practice, practice, practice and good luck

 

[Kelvari]

Sorry buddy and I'm not trying to be harsh here, but if L2P means learn to play or learn to drive more accurately, that's really the answer. Forget anything you've done offline, it's nothing compared to the competition level of some online lobbies. Couple of questions though.

1. Do you have the right tires on? Make sure you have max allowed tires.
2. Did you tune the cars? Check out the tuning forum, scan a few of the popular garages and try out some of their tunes and see how you like them.
3. Do you know the tracks? Many online drivers have run hundreds of laps at each track and this helps a lot.
4. Have you run any TTs to see where you stack up to the rest of the world? Try the new FT-1 TT, it keeps SRF off which is common in most online lobbies. Give it a spin and see if you can gold or better.

As always, practice, practice, practice and good luck

1. I make sure to run with the max allowed tires, since I know everyone else is.
2. I don't know a lot about tuning the cars, other than the quick-tune transmission (and with my job, I really don't have much time to go dinking around with every little setting).
3. I know all of the old tracks pretty well, I'd say, having been playing since GT1.
4. I have run the FT-1 TT, and have gotten gold on it. My current global rating is #19237 with a gap of +0:05.411 from 1st. And having SRF off isn't an issue for me - I tend to run with only ABS1 for my aids, as I've found that everything else slows me down drastically.

This still doesn't explain, though, why a car that is at maximum spec for a race can get so thoroughly left in the dust by cars potentially lower-rated than it is itself.

 

[Mini Stiggy]

Sorry buddy and I'm not trying to be harsh here, but if L2P means learn to play or learn to drive more accurately, that's really the answer. Forget anything you've done offline, it's nothing compared to the competition level of some online lobbies. Couple of questions though.

1. Do you have the right tires on? Make sure you have max allowed tires.
2. Did you tune the cars? Check out the tuning forum, scan a few of the popular garages and try out some of their tunes and see how you like them.
3. Do you know the tracks? Many online drivers have run hundreds of laps at each track and this helps a lot.
4. Have you run any TTs to see where you stack up to the rest of the world? Try the new FT-1 TT, it keeps SRF off which is common in most online lobbies. Give it a spin and see if you can gold or better.

As always, practice, practice, practice and good luck

👍👍

As said above, just keep practicing when ever you can, and you won't be left behind:tup:.

 

[Kelvari]

So, is the imbalance in PP that I'm seeing due strictly to my lack of skill?

 

[NOSWaster]

I'll be frank here: Some cars are just plain better at a specific PP level than others. Typically, at least from what I've seen, these cars are either MR or have a stock weight balance close to MR. These cars also usually come with wings right out of the box as opposed to add-ons. Some of the cars I'm referring to are:

NSX-R Prototype LM Road Car
GT by Citroen Road Car
Lotus Elise 111R
Lexus LFA
Any racing car compared to its road car version when both are at the same PP.

Flat floors, despite their PP gains, are not worth it. They rarely make up for the power you could have gained or weight you could have lost.

On Willow Springs with a Lancer Evo 6, which is no slouch, I tested it with flat floor and 20 downforce on the rear at 450PP, compared to no downforce at 450PP. The weight you can shed instead of taking downforce gives the car much better acceleration in addition to better straight line speed than the downforce-using car. However, the high speed corners at the end of the track are where the downforce shined brilliantly. The problem is that on the front stretch, the car with lower weight caught right up because of the car with downforce hardly being able to accelerate anymore.

Basically, find the overpowered cars of the class if you want to win, and don't add wings to a car unless they add 0PP.

Your mileage may vary. I haven't played in a while (since 1.04) so my findings may be wildly inaccurate.

 

[Mini Stiggy]

Not completely. PP isn't perfect. But most of it is skill.

 

[Johnnypenso]

2. I don't know a lot about tuning the cars, other than the quick-tune transmission (and with my job, I really don't have much time to go dinking around with every little setting).
4. I have run the FT-1 TT, and have gotten gold on it. My current global rating is #19237 with a gap of +0:05.411 from 1st. And having SRF off isn't an issue for me - I tend to run with only ABS1 for my aids, as I've found that everything else slows me down drastically.

This still doesn't explain, though, why a car that is at maximum spec for a race can get so thoroughly left in the dust by cars potentially lower-rated than it is itself.

From what I can see the answer is there. 5.5 seconds out in this TT means you are probably about an average mid to back packer in most competitive lobbies and probably 2-4 seconds off the fastest pace assuming everyone is in equal cars like the TT.

But in PP restricted lobbies all cars are not equal, some are faster than others, and some are tuned to reach their maximum potential which might shave another second or two off laptimes which would put you 6+ seconds off the pace quite easily. If you don't want to re-invent the wheel tuning, try these garages:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/praiano-gt6-tunes-ferrari-330-p4-67.291084/
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/motor-city-tunes-gt6.291066/
Hami's S2000 Type V Seasonal Tune is probably my favourite car in all of GT6 and hard to beat at 450PP.

 

[Kelvari]

So it sounds like this is going to go the same way GT5 did - buy one of a handful of overpowered 'cheatermobiles,' so to speak, and learn how to be good with them, and forget every other car in the game.

 

[Kelvari]

If you don't want to re-invent the wheel tuning, try these garages:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/praiano-gt6-tunes-ferrari-330-p4-67.291084/
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/motor-city-tunes-gt6.291066/
Hami's S2000 Type V Seasonal Tune is probably my favourite car in all of GT6 and hard to beat at 450PP.

What is a G27 and what is a Nixim brake pedal?

 

[NOSWaster]

So it sounds like this is going to go the same way GT5 did - buy one of a handful of overpowered 'cheatermobiles,' so to speak, and learn how to be good with them, and forget every other car in the game.

That's the right mindset, yep!

I hate it. PD should y'know, have a leaderboard that counts all best-lap-times from online races on specific tracks. Then it compares all of the cars at that PP level, finds outliers, and reports back to PD on which cars are overpowered and which are underpowered so their PP scaling can be adjusted accordingly.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What is a G27 and what is a Nixim brake pedal?

G27 is a Logitech Racing Wheel. Nixim brake mod is an aftermarket mod to the G27 brake pedal, making it stiffer and giving it more realistic feel.

 

[Kelvari]

G27 is a Logitech Racing Wheel. Nixim brake mod is an aftermarket mod to the G27 brake pedal, making it stiffer and giving it more realistic feel.

Guessing, then, that part of my problem might be that I don't have $200+ to blow on a controller for 1 game....

 

[Johnnypenso]

Guessing, then, that part of my problem might be that I don't have $200+ to blow on a controller for 1 game....

Yes and no. I've met many DS3 drivers that were very competitive at all levels in all types of cars. I didn't even know they were using DS3 until I found out later. The same things that make you fast with a wheel also make you fast with a DS3. Track knowledge, game knowledge, familiarity with how the physics engine works etc. I think a wheel is ultimately faster to some small degree but it's possible to be fast and consistent with either one, and I know many people that converted to wheels and really struggled with it.

 

[Kelvari]

That's the right mindset, yep!

I hate it. PD should y'know, have a leaderboard that counts all best-lap-times from online races on specific tracks. Then it compares all of the cars at that PP level, finds outliers, and reports back to PD on which cars are overpowered and which are underpowered so their PP scaling can be adjusted accordingly.

Actually, I think that'd be a nice feature, if they could implement it properly.

 

[subsist]

If you are driving un-tuned cars in online lobbies you are usually going to be running at the back of the pack unless you have very good skill. Most people use tuned cars they have driven many many times, and spend the first 5 minutes of practice time setting up gear ratios etc for the race.

If you want to be competitive in most online lobbies, you will need to look at some tuning garages and use their tunes or learn to tune your own cars.

 

[Z1-AV69]

So it sounds like this is going to go the same way GT5 did - buy one of a handful of overpowered 'cheatermobiles,' so to speak, and learn how to be good with them, and forget every other car in the game.

So far I think the range of competitive cars got wider than in GT5, I see more cars being able to do the super quick times. With your problem it would probably help to stick to mostly one car though, to get both the tune and your driving best. Ultimately, if you want to become better at both tuning and driving switching cars will teach you more over time. But it's more of a long term plan. If you want quick success, better choose one car and stick with it.

If you dislike tuning, you might want to see if you got more luck in no tuning rooms? 500PP is a very competitive range and you can expect the quick guys to have optimized their cars for hundreds or thousands of miles. That helps a lot, especially with consistency. For a beginning you can look for tunes from here, but if you really want to belong to the quick guys, there is no way around learning to tune.
You say you sometimes don't reach the PP limit? You can afford that at 600PP+ roadcars, but rarely at the lower levels where everything is closer. On top you should make best use of the power limiter. If you tune your car for like 510-515PP and reduce it down to 500, it will still be about as fast as a 507-510PP car without limiter and easier with traction too. Usually that makes a big step for beginners.

But most will be from your driving skill probably. Like in every game skill mostly equals time invested. You might battle opponents online that raced already hundreds of thousands of miles in GT5 und just continue in GT6. You won't beat them with just a few hours played. But don't worry, when those guys started, they had just the same problems as you got now. Just continue to learn and improve and you can get there too.

Regarding the DS3 I think it's not a disadvantage in online racing. In the range I'm racing I know both wheel and DS3 users doing the really quick times, you won't notice the difference without asking. I think the DS3 has even 2 advantages: 1. it might allow for quicker corrections when in trouble from traffic or crashers and 2. you can race for longer without exhaustion, gaining more experience, which will end up as better racecraft.

For the time being you can also look around for other, less competitive rooms, giving you easier success. The differences between rooms can be big and maybe you just need to find the right guys for your level?

 

[trustjab]

Seems the Mazda RX8 is all the rave for 500pp - 520pp. Try to improve the suspension tuning, add power and maybe a wing with 10points rear downforce.

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

Like mentioned above, the pp system is far from perfect. There are cars that are inherently faster than others at the same pp.

Much of their being faster can be attributed to perfecting tunes, many times directly for certain courses.

As noted above, browse the tuning forums and adjust to your style.

There are open lobbies (like mine) that will help you with your tuning as well.

 

[Gr8888T]

I've been some races where there's the outliers(nsx lm prototype), even at the same pp I'll get smoked in a straight line because I didn't tune my car, and using the wrong car. When you race against people that are also using the wrong cars then it's down to track knowledge, I can pull a huge gap on tracks I know well, while getting left in the dust on other tracks.

If you are like me and don't have the time to tune your cars, filter lobbies by tracks you know by heart and also no tuning, it levels the playing field, other wise you well most likely lose.

 

[Sander 001]

No the PP system isn't perfect but neither is real life; you seen the Top Gear power lap times?

The Ferrari Enzo is 3 seconds slower[a huge difference] per lap on that little track than the McLaren MP4 despite having less weight and 70 more bhp.

 

[Johnnypenso]

No the PP system isn't perfect but neither is real life; you seen the Top Gear power lap times?

The Ferrari Enzo is 3 seconds slower[a huge difference] per lap on that little track than the McLaren MP4 despite having less weight and 70 more bhp.

That's kind of the point of the PP system though isn't it? To take unequal cars and make them relatively equal? But I think we're asking too much of the system to equalize a great many cars on all kinds of tracks under all kinds of conditions, I just don't think it can be done, there are too many variables. What would dramatically improve the system however would be gathering data and fixing the real outliers. You know, like the Lotus Elise, the RX-500, the LFA. Those cars should be adjusted to be much closer to the pack.

 

[esoxhntr]

1.15 is about 15 seconds a lap. this suggests to me one of/combo of the following

- driver error
- tuning error
- wrong car

some things that may help you

at sub 550-600 pp levels, street cars will generally be faster than their race car counterparts
tuning is important, especially maximizing your transmission for the track
yes some cars are faster at the same pp level but not to the tune of 15 seconds / lap @ laguna. 15 seconds on Nurburgring, sure.

have a look at what cars the top guys are running and get into the same car and see how far behind (or hopefully ahead) you are.

 

[Maddens Raiders]

So, is the imbalance in PP that I'm seeing due strictly to my lack of skill?

The answer to your question is unfortunately, yes. In online mode it doesn't matter if the race is regulated by PP or standard weight/kilo regs, if you're out classed by a rival pilot you will be exposed. It is a simulator after all and disparities in pilot skill levels are on full display. I cannot tell you the amount of drivers that enter my lobbies and leave halfway through the first lap of Sarthe simply because they are disheartened when they can't keep up even when I'm using a car that is a class or even two classes below theirs, just to make it fun and a bit interesting for me. .


There are many "part time" drivers in GT6 and there is also a good number of really fast drivers on GT6 as well that know the ins and outs of the performance of a wide range of cars (whether race cars or street cars) which can be slightly exploited when racing a "novice" driver. It's not cheating by any stretch of the imagination. It's simply skill and dedication to the love of motor sport as well as intimate track knowledge with said vehicles - borne from hours of testing, racing, and winning and losing - by "a few good men" which separates the fast from the ocean of average and slow drivers in GT. I would try hosting a room with a name of "500pp Street weekend tuner" or "500pp Learning to go fast" to attract drivers in the same situation as you. Not trying to sound like a know it all m8, just trying to help and provide some insight.

 

[Sander 001]

That's kind of the point of the PP system though isn't it? To take unequal cars and make them relatively equal? But I think we're asking too much of the system to equalize a great many cars on all kinds of tracks under all kinds of conditions, I just don't think it can be done, there are too many variables. What would dramatically improve the system however would be gathering data and fixing the real outliers. You know, like the Lotus Elise, the RX-500, the LFA. Those cars should be adjusted to be much closer to the pack.

I totally agree; it's a measure of performance, not lap times. Performance does not equal lap times, is the reason why I brought up the Enzo example.
But yes, there's definitely an argument to be made to equalize the performance of outliers.

 

[bluecharger]

One just has to remember PP is an imperfect system meant to be a very general guideline and used in conjunction with HP, Weight, Torque, etc. It IS better than the old days when HP was the only consideration. PD comes along every so often (not nearly often enough IMO) with an adjustment update and makes everyone mad and uptight again and then we all search out the fastest car for major PP limited races again. C'est la vie.

 

[Haitauer]

This is the case with most of the online games. Ive had the harsh experience from Battlefield and GT5 when i first went from offline to online. I had played GT5 and GT games in general quite a lot and was thinking i was quite good at them, but still it was a cold shower seeing the level of competition online. I can tell that one can catch up quite fast - few nights and you stand a change to the middle of the pack with a decent stock car, but beeing at the top requires great car choise, great tune (make that a good tune for each track) and above all great skill. Have been able to compete at the top three and snatch few victories since, but it takes a lot of work - possibly hours of tuning a single car if you cant find a good tune online. I would suggest you start with the one make races where everyone has the same car, or like suggested earlier you should study the cars of the top drivers on certain PP. It will give you a hint what to drive. Although i am happy, that the field of cars feels more even and diverce in GT6 compared to that of GT5.

The reward you get when you achieve skill level to say top 20% of competition are great. I have experienced some huge adrenalin rushes fighting that last lap to near photo finish - the kind of rushes that surprise one how is it even possible by playing "just a game". 👍

ps. always check you have best possible tires and SRF turned on when allowed. Sadly competing SRFoff vs SRFon doesnt often seem possible..

pps. you DONT need a wheel. Many fast drivers use DS. It is A LOT easier to correct a skid on DS. Only when one masters the driving good enough might one be able to take advantage of the accuracy of driving with a wheel. (just my gut feel - do i get +1 for this?)

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is the case with most of the online games. Ive had the harsh experience from Battlefield and GT5 when i first went from offline to online. I had played GT5 and GT games in general quite a lot and was thinking i was quite good at them, but still it was a cold shower seeing the level of competition online. I can tell that one can catch up quite fast - few nights and you stand a change to the middle of the pack with a decent stock car, but beeing at the top requires great car choise, great tune (make that a good tune for each track) and above all great skill. Have been able to compete at the top three and snatch few victories since, but it takes a lot of work - possibly hours of tuning a single car if you cant find a good tune online. I would suggest you start with the one make races where everyone has the same car, or like suggested earlier you should study the cars of the top drivers on certain PP. It will give you a hint what to drive. Although i am happy, that the field of cars feels more even and diverce in GT6 compared to that of GT5.

The reward you get when you achieve skill level to say top 20% of competition are great. I have experienced some huge adrenalin rushes fighting that last lap to near photo finish - the kind of rushes that surprise one how is it even possible by playing "just a game". 👍

ps. always check you have best possible tires and SRF turned on when allowed. Sadly competing SRFoff vs SRFon doesnt often seem possible..

pps. you DONT need a wheel. Many fast drivers use DS. It is A LOT easier to correct a skid on DS. Only when one masters the driving good enough might one be able to take advantage of the accuracy of driving with a wheel. (just my gut feel - do i get +1 for this?)

Well said:tup:👍 The thrill of competing and achieving a decent result after a some hard preparation work is a reward in and of itself and independent of any prizes you might receive. It's what keeps me coming back. About the wheel vs. DS3, you're right it's easier to catch a slide with the DS3. The advantage with a wheel is, it's probably easier to get your car into a position and make finer inputs with the throttle/brake/steering so you don't get the car out of shape to begin with, to make the correction necessary. It does take some work to make the transition, but once you do, you never go back.

 

[Wide Boy]

Try various tuners cars till you find one that suites your driving style, you could start with johnnypenso in the post above. Adjust LSD slightly if needed to suite your style or the track, this can be picked up pretty quickly.
On some tracks the gains from a well set up car are huge.
Also & I did not realise this till recently tuning the gearbox to match the torque curve can make a difference especially if you change up at the right time.
I used to just short shift to prevent wheel spin but many cars benefit from doing so in the higher gears to so you drop back onto the top of the torque curve.
I am no tuner but for most tracks don't forget weight reduction my gut feeling is its a good return on your PP points helping handling, cornering, acceleration & tyre wear.
Downside is it seems to destroy the cars character more often than not.