GT6 Science or video game?

[biftizmo]

This is not a thread for cars tracks or wish lists, more a topic or discussion relating to the fundamental's of the science and physics or software mechanics within the GT network.

• It's official GT data is really accurate...discuss
• What about team racing? I smell team livery. Much like the academy stickers..why knot?And what about massive revenues from advertising sponsorship deals..why not? Pirelli championships…Yokohama Rubber…KW suspension. could be do-able..what about track side advertising in these events….could be comparable to real world deals,lots of dollars for content for the game. I’m sure…is this game ready built to incorporate this kind of futuristic thinking? Far out Kaz….discuss
• Stockyard? Server? How's that going to work then?what is it for?
• How long to scan a car and insert into game using latest techniques...

Feel free to add your own pondering list for discussion.

 

[phil_75]

It's official GT data is really accurate...discuss

A £40 console game that models over 1000 cars on 10 year old hardware.

A proper simulator that models only 1 car costs thousands.

Thats how accurate.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

A £40 console game that models over 1000 cars on 10 year old hardware.

A proper simulator that models only 1 car costs thousands.

Thats how accurate.

Which one sells more copies? Which one has a bigger budget?

 

[stuff1138]

For what it is, GT is fairly accurate. The physics model isn't as good as several much older PC games though.

 

[biftizmo]

For what it is, GT is fairly accurate. The physics model isn't as good as several much older PC games though.

On what level? Physics do you mean..GT contains the solar system.thats pritty good maths, car simulater or world simulater

 

[Jbaffoh]

I have to admit that GT6 has the best low gravity physics and lunar rover modeling of any auto racing game I've ever played. I suspect it's in a class of its own in that respect.

 

[Bo]

On what level? Physics do you mean..GT contains the solar system.thats pritty good maths, car simulater or world simulater

Can I just ask, what on earth are you talking about?

 

[Samus]

This is not a thread for cars tracks or wish lists.more a topic or discution relating to the fundament"s of the science and physics within the GT network.

It's official GT data is really accurate...discuss

What about team raceing? I smell team livery. Much like the academy stickers..why knot?
And what about massive revenues from advirtizing sponsorship deals..why not?
Pirelli championships…Yokohama Rubber…KW suspension. could be do-able..what about track side advertising in these events….could be comparable to real world deals,lots of dollars for content for the game. I’m sure…is this game ready built to incorporate this kind of futuristic thinking? Far out Kaz….discuss

It's official that four tracks have been deemed really accurate by the FIA. Nothing else.

PS your spelling is pretty bad. Might I suggest a spell check?

 

[Bo]

It's official that four tracks have been deemed really accurate by the FIA. Nothing else.

And the GT championship thingymajig.

 

[Samus]

And the GT championship thingymajig.

I meant nothing else has been deemed "really accurate".

 

[332i]

A £40 console game that models over 1000 cars on 10 year old hardware.

A proper simulator that models only 1 car costs thousands.

Thats how accurate.

Thousands? Keep going up Millions in some cases. There are wheels out there that cost thousands. That said, for $50 or $60 USD, GT6 is pretty damn solid with a decent wheel. Most notably after 1.09. I have a few edumacations in le physics. Science at this point with all aids off. Especially when tuning. Anyone who thinks camber is broken, has a broken setup. It needs work, but it absolutely helps now. No questions about it; I have thoroughly tested. Tens of hours of tuning four very different specific cars since the 1.09 update. It is especially rewarding on race cars. Toe makes sense now, shock settings, diff, ARBs, etc. It all makes a fair amount of sense now and you can approach things logically or physically. The old physics felt like you were nearly cheating science. You could somewhat approach things logically, but often you were doing things like zero camber and ridiculous spring/ARB rates.

People who say things don't work in the game are either frustrated or need help setting a car up. The best advice I can offer is read how typical, modern suspension geometry functions and how/which adjustments affect x and in what manner. The explanations in the cars' menus for setups are very generalized and a few are incorrect; ie the described results for x adjustment in the front, will not have the same affect when tweaked in the rear. Sometimes the opposite affect, depending on other settings you've dialed in.

 

[DolHaus]

Thousands? Keep going up Millions in some cases. There are wheels out there that cost thousands. That said, for $50 or $60 USD, GT6 is pretty damn solid with a decent wheel. Most notably after 1.09. I have a few edumacations in le physics. Science at this point with all aids off. Especially when tuning. Anyone who thinks camber is broken, has a broken setup. It needs work, but it absolutely helps now. No questions about it; I have thoroughly tested. Tens of hours of tuning four very different specific cars since the 1.09 update. It is especially rewarding on race cars. Toe makes sense now, shock settings, diff, ARBs, etc. It all makes a fair amount of sense now and you can approach things logically or physically. The old physics felt like you were nearly cheating science. You could somewhat approach things logically, but often you were doing things like zero camber and ridiculous spring/ARB rates.

People who say things don't work in the game are either frustrated or need help setting a car up. The best advice I can offer is read how typical, modern suspension geometry functions and how/which adjustments affect x and in what manner. The explanations in the cars' menus for setups are very generalized and a few are incorrect; ie the described results for x adjustment in the front, will not have the same affect when tweaked in the rear. Sometimes the opposite affect, depending on other settings you've dialed in.

I agree on the camber, the way they have done it is remarkably accurate to life, gone are the days of GT5 grip multipliers. There are a few physics quirks in the programming but nothing game breaking, I think the suspension modelling is much more clever than people give it credit for.

 

[FSportIS]

From comparing my own autocrossing experience with real car with the simulation in this game, I'm very very impressed with its physics. Even my autocross pros (with years of experience) friends agree on this. The one big thing this game lack is the simulating sitting inside a real car feeling the g-force at turning through the body and also the sound is not so real on many cars. I also notice that the "skid force recovery" option in this game makes the car unrealistically grippy with so much traction. Also, the "steering assist" is very unreal, it seems to correct the steering mistake which is very unrealistic. However, when I turn these options off, the car physics seem very, very real.

 

[332i]

That's why very few people using wheels use nothing other than abs.

 

[biftizmo]

A £40 console game that models over 1000 cars on 10 year old hardware.

A proper simulator that models only 1 car costs thousands.

Thats how accurate.

It may be difficult to believe but calculators used to cost thousands but now thier a free app... Things move on especially in the tech world...

 

[biftizmo]

For what it is, GT is fairly accurate. The physics model isn't as good as several much older PC games though.

Not convinced you are right..

 

[biftizmo]

• How long to scan a car and insert into game using latest techniques...

Feel free to add your own pondering list for discussion.

I seem to remember that Mario Andretti' Hudson was 6 days to rebuild and about another week to scan..ok so this was in the game quite awhile later and it's a relatively simple car.... But it doesn't take very long I think....

 

[ryzno]

All I'll say is...

One does not simply laser scan a car or track and say wa-la, a car or track...

 

[biftizmo]

All I'll say is...

One does not simply laser scan a car or track and say wa-la, a car or track...

Ok so tracks are an all different ball game. obviously..that's why didn't mention tracks ....but by now you"d Imagine pd have a established way of doing things. they were running a working model of the Hudson within a week or so after they built it so maybe no wa-la .but defiantly zippaddy doo....implamenting them in to a live game..I think they got that sorted to.

 

[ryzno]

Ok so tracks are an all different ball game. obviously..that's why didn't mention tracks ....but by now you"d Imagine pd have a established way of doing things. they were running a working model of the Hudson within a week or so after they built it so maybe no wa-la .but defiantly zippaddy doo....implamenting them in to a live game..I think they got that sorted to.

I feel what your saying. But there are so many things that can go wrong that get over looked, or they dont know where they screwed up.

As a player of the original GT, I do feel they should have far exceeded their few progressions at this point in time.

Anyways, Im no expert in programing/design, but as a mechanic. There is a famous saying... If it aint broke don't fix it.

And I stand by my statement.
As long as game companies abuse online(updates/MACRO-TRANSACTIONS), they will say... Um we are not done, but we need more money. Give the people this! We will fix it later!..

So, welcome to the new world of ANY(new) video game. They are all on the cell phone game bs. By that I mean we got "complete" games(back in the day). Flawed maybe, but they made sure they worked. Now the BS we get now sometimes...

Thanks smart phones and the economy. Same bs, less wages, higher prices, less quality.

PS the standard cars show how lazy they are to actually re-do things.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think the biggest weakness in GT at this point in terms of the mechanics of the game, is the FFB. It improved slightly but it's still not where it should be, at least not on the G27. I've been playing Grid Autosport since it launched last week and even though it's simcade in terms of physics, the FFB is quite good. I just ran a race at a street course in Dubai and at one point on the track the wheel started vibrating slightly and it became quite noisy through the speakers. Took me a second to realize I was driving on a cobblestones!!! Every curb affects the physics and you can feel it through the wheel and that's how it should be in GT. I drove some FF street cars the other day and I'd say the FFB is even better than GT in this regard. You can really feel the front end wash out without ABS, you can feel itr through the wheel when the front end begins to understeer if you hit the throttle too early and the auditory feedback matches what's happening perfectly so you always know what's going on.

What about team

• racing? I smell team livery. Much like the academy stickers..why knot?And what about massive revenues from advertising sponsorship deals..why not? Pirelli championships…Yokohama Rubber…KW suspension. could be do-able..what about track side advertising in these events….could be comparable to real world deals,lots of dollars for content for the game. I’m sure…is this game ready built to incorporate this kind of futuristic thinking? Far out Kaz….discuss

This is partly the approach that Grid Autosport and other games takes. You race for teams like Oakley, Razer, Monster Energy etc., you get offered contracts, it adds a whole new element to the game. You also have a team mate and you can issue team orders as you go, and a race engineer that gives you updates. My fear with GT and these ideas is that they'll spend a whack of time on this stuff and not fix the game. They haven't proven at all, ever, that they are capable or skilled at incorporating real life ideas into racing within the game in any meaningful way and of course, if they don't get the AI and Career Mode up to industry standards, it's like putting lipstick on a pig. They have to fix the AI and fix the whole career mode first before they go spending time and resources on slapping advertising logos all over the game and thinking that just because they tied some real world stuff in it's automatically golden.

 

[biftizmo]

I feel what your saying. But there are so many things that can go wrong that get over looked, or they dont know where they screwed up.

As a player of the original GT, I do feel they should have far exceeded their few progressions at this point in time.

Anyways, Im no expert in programing/design, but as a mechanic. There is a famous saying... If it aint broke don't fix it.

And I stand by my statement.
As long as game companies abuse online(updates/MACRO-TRANSACTIONS), they will say... Um we are not done, but we need more money. Give the people this! We will fix it later!..

So, welcome to the new world of ANY(new) video game. They are all on the cell phone game bs. By that I mean we got "complete" games(back in the day). Flawed maybe, but they made sure they worked. Now the BS we get now sometimes...

Thanks smart phones and the economy. Same bs, less wages, higher prices, less quality.

PS the standard cars show how lazy they are to actually re-do things.

mmmm ...I think your disgruntled view of the world is not letting you see the innovative work pd have achieved.the world works differently in different places..
GT5 without the cars or tracks is a a well conceived system for delivery...GT6 is a fine tuned version..in 5 years time the content you received from now on will probably be to your satisfaction.. The discussion here is how easy is it for them to add cars to the game from now on..... I think this leads us into the car server question..

 

[biftizmo]

I think the biggest weakness in GT at this point in terms of the mechanics of the game, is the FFB.
, it's like putting lipstick on a pig. They have to fix the AI and fix the whole career mode first before they go spending time and resources on slapping advertising logos all over the game and thinking that just because they tied some real world stuff in it's automatically golden.

I can't comment on the FFB..a friend of mine just got a wheel. he did suggest there were variations between new tracks and older ones..so not sure..
Advertising is the machine that drives F1..without it wouldn't exist...it's big money...that could be handy for the development of GT...I'm sure we will see FIA stickers everywhere at some point.
they changed the Goodwood recently with no effect to the game...they seem stoked about it...first time in video game history they said..if this could be done at track side billboards.. Then it could be lucrative...

 

[Johnnypenso]

I can't comment on the FFB..a friend of mine just got a wheel. he did suggest there were variations between new tracks and older ones..so not sure..
Advertising is the machine that drives F1..without it wouldn't exist...it's big money...that could be handy for the development of GT...I'm sure we will see FIA stickers everywhere at some point.
they changed the Goodwood recently with no effect to the game...they seem stoked about it...first time in video game history they said..if this could be done at track side billboards.. Then it could be lucrative...

GT seems ok, until you try other games. Assetto Corsa is on a whole different level, but even the several year old racing sims I can run on my PC have better feedback than GT, along with the aforementioned GAS. Feedback does vary from track to track that is true. Bathurst is better than most but you can still ride the curbs with little feedback although I haven't tried it after the 1.09 update. I have a feeling that if they could improve the FFB it would dramatically improve the immersion level of the game and bring to life many more of the little subtleties of the physics that we just can't feel at this point.

 

[biftizmo]

PS the standard cars show how lazy they are to actually re-do things.

They haven't been redone that's why we've tagged them standards...same for some tracks early versions....game fillers from old...not lazy just resourceful....."improve the system then improve the content".."while your busy re-doing everything nothing's getting done" now let's help look to the future these Kaz and his mates are miles in front of us if only we could see into the future like they do...

GT seems ok, until you try other games. Assetto Corsa is on a whole different level, but even the several year old racing sims I can run on my PC have better feedback than GT, along with the aforementioned GAS. Feedback does vary from track to track that is true. Bathurst is better than most but you can still ride the curbs with little feedback although I haven't tried it after the 1.09 update. I have a feeling that if they could improve the FFB it would dramatically improve the immersion level of the game and bring to life many more of the little subtleties of the physics that we just can't feel at this point.

Yes 1:09 update-
(1) The dynamics of the car on surfaces with cornerstones and bumps have been improved;
(2) The effect of the tyre geometry has been changed (mainly for the "Camber Angle" option);
(3) The handling of some rear heavy cars has been improved;

Let me know your findings...would an update effect all tracks...or maybe just those tracks capable of this feature.
say after 2011 or 2012..I will report what my mate jimbo says on his setup...

 

[biftizmo]

The main thing about these old and new additions to GT is some of them not only need a pollygon or interia upgrades some of them are lacking in real performance data..for all we know the C7 corvette may be the first car in GT to have actull PP data as it was co developed specifically....so a lot more cars may need upgrades than you might think..but the plus side is new additions from now on could be more true to life that way ..I'm sure manufactures see this a a big plus when revelling ther new creations..using actual data to fill in the gaps of "not knows"of which their is a few,in some of the cars...all in all upgradeing cars new and old will be a forever task due to the fact that they need that car on that track for a day to gather the data they need....data logger useful kit....