GT7 world level race opponents - could you explain ?

[MaxHardcr]

Hi Everyone,
Last year I've started GT7 racing. I'm a beginner. D class driver in GT7.
When I do a routine challenges I'm mostly Bronze and sometimes Silver (example below). So in those challenges when you can see yourself in the ranking with thousands of drivers I'm mostly 5-10 seconds per lap behind the World Champion level drivers (A, A+ or S if there are some). A that is fine.

The strange thing happens when I start a daily race. Somehow players that are 5-10 seconds in front of me (based on the challenges times they have world champion class , A, A+ times) they are rated as D drivers (DR = D) (screen below - my sample result is 2:27 while there are multiple drivers 5-10 seconds ahead). How's that possible. They should be classified as A, A+ and compete with A and A+ drivers. I'm not sure what is going on? I remember when I race on the Deep Forest Raceway daily race (so same track as above) and they were 5-7 seconds ahead. Then they should be A, A+ based on their skills. How they can be "D" class drivers? Could anyone explain this?

 

[alvitoxde123]

Some times they are very fast players starting from zero in new accounts or they may have migrated from other sim racing games.

 

[bduddy]

I'm sorry to break it to you but A+ drivers are doing times in the 2:18s, 2:19s. You're a long way off from those players, and when you're in a lower bracket, there's going to be a wider spread of drivers.

 

[MaxHardcr]

I'm sorry to break it to you but A+ drivers are doing times in the 2:18s, 2:19s. You're a long way off from those players, and when you're in a lower bracket, there's going to be a wider spread of drivers.

Hi bduddy, I tought in a similar way untill I checked this and what you wrote (and what I tought) is not true. Below I checked the same race today - SPA / GT3 / B class drivers (two classes higher, screen below). One of the top B class drivers get 2:21-2:22. The best B class was 2:19. The last B class (still 2 classes higher then me) was 2:24 (calculation below). So at least 3 drivers from the initial screens should be according to this B class not D class and should race with other B class drivers. Next 3 probably C class then 2:25-2:26. Then D class 2:27-28. E class 2:29-... . That's how it should look according to the collected data.

B class drivers on SPA daily race GT3:
--------------------------------------
Best 9:17min = 557sec / 4 = 139sec = 2:19min
Last 9:38min = 578sec / 4 = 144sec = 2:24min

And as you can see bottom on the last screen A & A+ class drivers - 2:18.879 - 2:21:913.

So, I still do not understand how the drivers with the same speed level as B & C at least have D class and race with D and E (new to the game) drivers?

 

[Lomic]

You can have fast players with a D ranking, because they do very few daily races. Plus it is very different to TT and to race. You can achieve some results in TT that do not reflect how well you will do in races, because racing involves a lot more things than TTing.

 

[MaxHardcr]

You can have fast players with a D ranking, because they do very few daily races. Plus it is very different to TT and to race. You can achieve some results in TT that do not reflect how well you will do in races, because racing involves a lot more things than TTing.

Ok , lets focus on race times only. 2:23-2:24 (presented and compared to other races) is B/C class level. Not D class for sure. And the DR rating as far as I remember in its description presents "speed level" not "racing frequency level - how often someone race per day". Isn't it?

 

[Lomic]

And the DR rating as far as I remember in its description presents "speed level" not "racing frequency level - how often someone race per day". Isn't it?

But if you race in dailies once every blue moon, you will have a bad DR not indicative of your real level.

 

[jrbabbitt]

The strange thing happens when I start a daily race. Somehow players that are 5-10 seconds in front of me (based on the challenges times they have world champion class , A, A+ times) they are rated as D drivers (DR = D) (screen below - my sample result is 2:27 while there are multiple drivers 5-10 seconds ahead). How's that possible.

The one thing you may be forgetting or not completely understanding is that the Daily Race Qualifying times are wholly different from the Online Time Trial times that posted.
So as you will get better in Daily races you will notice your qualifying times will be closer to the top of the DR group you rate.
Just because the TT times are 5+ seconds and are from DR rated players above your class does not mean that there should be A rated players in the race you class in...

 

[eran0004]

Hi Everyone,
Last year I've started GT7 racing. I'm a beginner. D class driver in GT7.
When I do a routine challenges I'm mostly Bronze and sometimes Silver (example below). So in those challenges when you can see yourself in the ranking with thousands of drivers I'm mostly 5-10 seconds per lap behind the World Champion level drivers (A, A+ or S if there are some). A that is fine.
View attachment 1485103

The strange thing happens when I start a daily race. Somehow players that are 5-10 seconds in front of me (based on the challenges times they have world champion class , A, A+ times) they are rated as D drivers (DR = D) (screen below - my sample result is 2:27 while there are multiple drivers 5-10 seconds ahead). How's that possible. They should be classified as A, A+ and compete with A and A+ drivers. I'm not sure what is going on? I remember when I race on the Deep Forest Raceway daily race (so same track as above) and they were 5-7 seconds ahead. Then they should be A, A+ based on their skills. How they can be "D" class drivers? Could anyone explain this?

View attachment 1485107

In the first screenshot you're 5.1 seconds behind on a lap that takes 1:47, that’s a relative gap of 4.8%.

In the second screenshot you are 3.7 seconds behind on a lap that takes 2:23, that's a relative gap of 2.6%.

So your relative gap in the time trial is almost twice as big as your relative gap in qualifying.

 

[bliprunner]

Ok , lets focus on race times only. 2:23-2:24 (presented and compared to other races) is B/C class level. Not D class for sure. And the DR rating as far as I remember in its description presents "speed level" not "racing frequency level - how often someone race per day". Isn't it?

DR rating is all about where you finish races. Finish races well (top 8 usually) and you will gain DR points, finish low and you will lose. Speed in qualifying/practice or time trials has nothing to do with DR, finishing position is everything.

Anyone who is A or A+ quick will not hang around in D or C for long. But everyone has to go through the ranks on their way up.

A few drivers aren't interested in doing Daily Races so will never increase their DR, but they often post fast practice/qualifying times and they might do the online time-trials.

+ one tip: never quit races, it kills your DR. Better to stay and finish if you want to increase your DR. A lot of people in the lower ranks don't realise this and races often see half the field leaving!

 

[MaxHardcr]

Ok, maybe we didn't understand each other fully. Let's focus then on Daily Races only (no time trials, online challenges etc.).
How it is, that (according to sample daily races only screens above) drivers with times like 2:23-2:24 races with me and other players in the D class are not assigned to the B or C class races? 2:19-2:24 on the SPA track for GT3 cars are on the B & C class level (even lower A maybe like 2:19). There skills are on much higher level so they should be assigned based on their speed index (DR) to B or C automatically, no matter if they do not work or educate and race multiple hours per day or just play on occasion. If someone is on D class he should race with D class according to the achieved times (speed index). At least that's how DR is described - a speed index. Other way drivers on D class level will not be able to progress and get any medals even in D class if A,B,C class drivers are there just under D as they for example play rare.

But if you race in dailies once every blue moon, you will have a bad DR not indicative of your real level.

That's what I'm talking about. Then is the thing you wrote is true then DR is not a "speed index" as described in GT7 description but it would be rather a frequency index. If you are F1 champion and play on occasion you will have D rating. A if you are a kid with no work and school that plays often you will get higher DR.

To me if someone is A, B or C level based on his achieved times he should be assigned to those classes immediately like after 3-5 races and race with drivers which achieved similar times. If someone gets more skills and started to achieve better times he should be automatically assigned to the higher class.

As currently - as I understood based on your comments - DR has nothing to do with the speed index/achieved times (as described in GT7 manuals) but it describes mostly racing frequency and being 8 and up location in races to collect points. It is very strange. In real life real drivers are assigned to classes/groups for races based on their times not how often they races. I was thinking it works the same in GT7.

 

[benjoi84]

No, there's a clear logical jump being made here.

"Speed Index" doesn't refer to how fast you can send a car around a circuit over one lap, but how quickly you can get your car around a race from green lights to chequered flag, and from one race to the next.

Playing more often doesn't guarantee that your rating will go up, but not playing much will absolutely guarantee that it won't change.

Players aren't assigned a rating. They accrue "experience points" which eventually lead to a climb up the DR ladder. The amount of points available per race is determined by the overall quality of opponents in the grid. (Check @Famine and his legendary breakdown of how DR points are distributed)

A key thing to remember when looking at ranking Vs qualifying pace is that the latter is a one-off event (implying that anyone could in theory 'accidently' set a very good quali time), whilst the former is something that has to be earned slowly through consistency of performance. If someone doesn't play often, regardless of how quick they are, they won't progress anytime soon. If someone plays 12 hours a day, but can't hold it together for a few laps (or against other cars on the track), their qualifying pace means nothing and they won't get the results needed for "leveling up".

Another small detail to consider is the danger of a 'DR reset' which gets triggered by specific conditions regarding SR. You might occasionally find high ranking players bear a lower DR because the game sent them down the order. This is usually temporary for reasons mentioned above.

 

[watto79]

@MaxHardcr Have a read of this https://www.gtplanet.net/unravelling-mysteries-gt-sports-driver-rating-system-improve/
It was written about GTSport but it's exactly the same for GT7 and will help you understand how Driver Rating works.

 

[MaxHardcr]

Ok, I read it. Then based on this article and some above comments the case is clear now. The DR has nothing to do with the "speed index" or "player driving skills" but it is based mostly - as in RPG games or Pokemon's style games - on collecting points. The more you play the more points you earn. And the more points you earn the higher class you get.

Due to that players with high skills that plays on occasion/rare will have like "D" class = win every race in "D" class with ease (when other players in D class have a few seconds worst time per lap it is rather obvious).

Now I understand. So my mistake. I was thinking that the GT7 is a REAL (not "real") driving simulator as to me REAL includes the real life drivers classes assignment approach. In real life drivers are assigned to groups/classes by achieved lap times/total race times/finish line position. Then in each class you race with a similarly skilled drivers. Like F1 drivers are pros so they race with similar level pros not some slow racing noobs (no matter how frequent the noobs races).

Ok, my understanding of this game was inaccurate then. Thanks all for clarification.

 

[benjoi84]

Luckily, the barrier for entry is slightly lower than that of "real driving".

Online matchmaking is what it is. It really has nothing to do with real-world circumstances.

 

[Famine]

The more you play the more points you earn.

Nope.

It's an ELO system. You exchange points with other drivers, losing points to them if they beat you, gaining from them if you beat them.

If you race a lot but consistently finish behind more drivers, you'll have a low Driver Rating. If you don't race at all, you'll have a Driver Rating of E - which everyone has for the first five races.

You don't gain Driver Rating by spamming around tracks on your own. You gain it by racing other drivers, and your rating ranks you by how well you are able to beat them. It is, after all, a Driver Rating, not a Going Fast Around a Track Rating.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Ok, I read it. Then based on this article and some above comments the case is clear now. The DR has nothing to do with the "speed index" or "player driving skills" but it is based mostly - as in RPG games or Pokemon's style games - on collecting points. The more you play the more points you earn. And the more points you earn the higher class you get.

Due to that players with high skills that plays on occasion/rare will have like "D" class = win every race in "D" class with ease (when other players in D class have a few seconds worst time per lap it is rather obvious).

Now I understand. So my mistake. I was thinking that the GT7 is a REAL (not "real") driving simulator as to me REAL includes the real life drivers classes assignment approach. In real life drivers are assigned to groups/classes by achieved lap times/total race times/finish line position. Then in each class you race with a similarly skilled drivers. Like F1 drivers are pros so they race with similar level pros not some slow racing noobs (no matter how frequent the noobs races).

Ok, my understanding of this game was inaccurate then. Thanks all for clarification.

You have this all wrong...

 

[MaxHardcr]

Thank you guys now I know how to play GT7 to win most races and have a lot of wins and gold cups all the time.

1. Train and achieve lap time level +2-3 seconds better than E/D class drivers
2. Race whenever you want - often or on occasion - and win every time or be in the TOP 3 in every race (which will be silly easy if your skills gave you +2-3 seconds per lap better then other 90-95%% of drivers in a D class races)
3. Then when you achieve enough points to get into higher class like C just start a few races and leave them like after one lap (due to DNF) to spend/lost earned "XP's" (wins & bronze/silver/gold cups will stay in statistics and your personal feeling)
4. Start over and make your next wins and cups series with ease by racing with beginners that are a few seconds behind you each lap

I think many players use exactly such strategy already.
I observed that when I start any race and very soon after we start I see the announcement "<player> left the room/race" And from 16 players something like only 10 finished the race and every time there is a few with DNF = they loosing/spending earned XP's to still be able to race with noobs and win every time (not be moved to the higher class). Now I get it how to play GT7. Every time play with lower class players which are a few seconds behind you each lap = win most of the time.

Thanks for the guidelines again gents!

Online matchmaking is what it is. It really has nothing to do with real-world circumstances.

Yes, now I get it. Thank you!

 

[Famine]

Thank you guys now I know how to play GT7 to win most races and have a lot of wins and gold cups all the time.

1. Train and achieve lap time level +2-3 seconds better than E/D class drivers
2. Race whenever you want - often or on occasion - and win every time or be in the TOP 3 in every race (which will be silly easy if your skills gave you +2-3 seconds per lap better then other 90-95%% of drivers in a D class races)
3. Then when you achieve enough points to get into higher class like C just start a few races and leave them like after one lap (due to DNF) to spend/lost earned "XP's" (wins & bronze/silver/gold cups will stay in statistics and your personal feeling)
4. Start over and make your next wins and cups series with ease by racing with beginners that are a few seconds behind you each lap

I think many players use exactly such strategy already.
I observed that when I start any race and very soon after we start I see the announcement "<player> left the room/race" And from 16 players something like only 10 finished the race and every time there is a few with DNF = they loosing/spending earned XP's to still be able to race with noobs and win every time (not be moved to the higher class). Now I get it how to play GT7. Every time play with lower class players which are a few seconds behind you each lap = win most of the time

This is called "seal-clubbing" and if you want to do that, fine. You won't actually get any benefit from it, and you certainly won't improve by "racing" people 5%+ slower than you every race, but it's a choice.