GTP Cool Wall: 2001-2003 Renault Avantime

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2001-2003 Renault Avantime


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Can you imagine being around someone at a dinner party constantly reminding you that their Avantime is a coupe, not an MPV.

Not that anybody attending a dinner party is going to be a terribly cool person to begin with but hey - it certainly wouldn't help.
 
It seems to me that commercial flops, like this Renault, eventually become cool as time passes.
It's an interesting concept.

I think it's because what people need is different from what people want. Brand new, a car like the Avantime is very much an acquired taste, because you could spend similar money to get a much (objectively) better car. Put in a position of needing a coupe (or as close as one gets to needing a luxury product anyway), it's an unlikely purchase.

But used, its appeal widens. Because nobody bought them in the first place prices drop like a stone. Then, all of a sudden, you have an incredibly rare and unusual car available for peanuts, and since you've bought it cheap then potentially expensive problems to fix are less of an issue, since you'd have spent thousands more for an equivalent but more popular car anyway.

That said, my pricing theory doesn't explain its coolness necessarily, but it contributes to the car's appeal and broadens its market a little.

That rareness also brings on a certain insta-classic status. A regular MPV/minivan essentially remains a working vehicle all its life and gets chucked away when it dies. Cars like the Avantime are immediately treated a little differently, despite being similar underneath. Nobody buys an Avantime to run until it dies - they run one because they like the design and want to perpetuate it in the future. Can of worms: That makes it far more of an enthusiast car than most stuff posted on the cool wall, which will just pass through several owners' hands, perhaps be appreciated, but eventually die without much thought. Counterpoint: It's also an enthusiast's car that you don't necessarily need to be a car enthusiast to own - anyone with an appreciation of design could fall for it.

The Avantime's cooness is also in that very French way of looking at something and thinking "now why hasn't anyone done it like this before?". Sometimes that's because doing it a different way is a bit daft (Matra Murena's three side-by-side seats, anyone?), but the fresh thinking and originality that usually results is very cool.
 
It seems to me that commercial flops, like this Renault, eventually become cool as time passes. A good example is the infamous Ford Edsel- uncool in it's time and yes, ugly, but they are a classic today. The Porsche 914 is a similar example.

Who knows? Maybe one day the PPontiac Aztek, the car that killed America's second-best marque, will be seen as cool.


In regards to the Pontiac Aztek:
1) the Aztek, didnt kill Pontiac, Pontiac died of natural cause by themselves...
2) the Aztek was, is and never will be cool ... ever.. but if it somehow become cool, it would be thanks to "breaking bad", no pun intended...

Sorry to correct you, but the closest US market equivalent to the Avantime, IMO, is the Acura ZDX...
Misunderstood and hated right from the start, the car then became one of the most well known commercial flop, Very Unfortunately IMHO, because i personally thinks the ZDX is an better, good looking and cool car over the car it was based on (the Aztek-like ugly A$$ Honda (Accord) CrossTour)

If a thread hasnt been done for the ZDX,i suggest one to be made right away... ;-)


Now back on topic:
I actually saw one of these at Download festival last weekend, had to go and have a proper look at it!

If you could please post some pics here, that would be cool ;-)
 
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1) the Aztek, didnt kill Pontiac, Pontiac died of natural cause by themselves...
Well... that's quite not true down to the letter - there's no such thing as "natural causes" in the car industry. The Aztek might be representative of Pontiac not really building cars that people wanted to buy in its later years, but its downfall was GM not really using it to do anything special, and therefore seeing it as expendable when the financial crisis chop happened.

It's worth noting, perhaps for some relevance given this is a Renault thread, that commercially the Avantime is quite different from the Aztek. One is a niche within a niche (an large, open-bodied vehicle in a class where compact, cramped interiors are more common), the other is a utility vehicle with "different" styling. One was never expected to sell in huge numbers, the other - I presume, given its role - probably was.

And if Renault died tomorrow, the Avantime wouldn't be its cause, no more than the low-numbers Clio V6 would be. Instead, it's that Renault has been left in a market pinched by companies like VW moving upmarket and companies like Kia, Hyundai and Skoda filling the "budget" roles. It's harder to sell the inbetweeners (SEAT has also struggled in recent years, as have Fiat, and the other French brands).

Of course Renault's solution, and the thing keeping it afloat, is a clever one - Dacia. Sell profitable, long-since-amortized cars at low prices in huge numbers. I suspect SEAT would be killed off tomorrow were VW not making so much money through diversifying their platforms.

If the Avantime can be considered a "flop", I suspect it's one that Renault doesn't regret too much as they didn't have much at stake.
 
It seems to me that commercial flops, like this Renault, eventually become cool as time passes. A good example is the infamous Ford Edsel- uncool in it's time and yes, ugly, but they are a classic today. The Porsche 914 is a similar example.

Who knows? Maybe one day the Pontiac Aztek, the car that killed America's second-best marque, will be seen as cool.
The Aztec started out seriously uncool and seriously ugly and it just got even worse with every passing day.

It was SU then and it's probably not ever in a million years going to be even remotely cool.
 
I still didn't get the whole Top Gear thing making it uncool. The Lamborghini Miura was featured on Top Gear, as well as the SV model; are those uncool as a result?
 
I'm aware that some people can't help but take the words and exploits of three clowns as a reason for certain brands or models being less cool than they would otherwise be, such as Alfa Romeo's appeal being ruined because the presenters fawn over them so much.

Taking the average viewers into account, who apparently base their preferences entirely on what Top Gear says regarding cars they favour/lambaste/ruin, has no bearing on whether or not I find a car cool, however. And it never will. A fair number of cars they praise incessantly can remain cool beyond what happens during a 60 minute slot on a Sunday evening.
 
I'm aware that some people can't help but take the words and exploits of three clowns as a reason for certain brands or models being less cool than they would otherwise be, such as Alfa Romeo's appeal being ruined because the presenters fawn over them so much.

Taking the average viewers into account, who apparently base their preferences entirely on what Top Gear says regarding cars they favour/lambaste/ruin, has no bearing on whether or not I find a car cool, however. And it never will. A fair number of cars they praise incessantly can remain cool beyond what happens during a 60 minute slot on a Sunday evening.
I agree.

While I'm sure any number of people will trot out the "every petrolhead should own an Alfa" line ad nauseum because they've watched Top Gear, I don't think it really affects the brand's appeal for me. In fact, the brand's appeal isn't even affected by the last 30 years of their cars which people endlessly berate, since those are the ones I grew up with - I love Alfa as much for BTCC 155s with Tarquini at the wheel, and fantastic designs like the GTV and 156, or the "breadvan" 145 Cloverleaf, as I do for old Giulias or 8C Monzas. And I've had enough seat time in the modern ones to know I still infinitely prefer them to yet-another-sodding-Golf or A3 even if the Alfas are a few degrees off-base objectively.

All that is independent of Top Gear for me. Just as it is with the Avantime. The TG trio dicking about with an Avantime to try and make it faster doesn't remotely factor in to how I view the car itself - it's still a grand-tourer in the best French tradition. My overriding memory of the car isn't the Stig driving around in a bewinged blue example, but one of the greatest-ever auto writers, LJK Setright, being chauffeured around Paris in the back of the prototype with Patrick le Quement for a feature in Autocar.

Of course, that's not what everyone thinks of. But I'd say that anyone using Top Gear as a defining factor in judging this particular car probably isn't doing it justice.
 
Lol, i watch Top Gear, and i dont remember seeing the Avantime ??!? Must have missed the one episode...

People have to stop taking those three stooges' words for the automotive gospel... some of it is true, but a lot of it is exagerated... cant people see it so flagrantly... maybe because they laugh so hard at the jokes that their eyes close and they cant see the reality...

My guess is that they have made a serioulsly cool Avantime to look like an unseriously uncool car for the enjoyment of the public who do not know better...

You have educational TV shows, and then you have TG and other Semi reality shows...
...and just because its on the BBC, doesnt necessarily make it legitimate...

Still a very funny show that i whole heartly enjoy and follow nonetheless...
 
My guess is that they have made a serioulsly cool Avantime to look like an unseriously uncool car for the enjoyment of the public who do not know better...
Nah, all three presenters say they like the Avantime, it just happened to be used in a bit of a daft segment where they put an F1 wing on the roof and some sticky tyres to try and make it outlap a Mitsubishi Evo around the track...
 
Just gonna throw my chip down on the subject again.

Anyone like the Ferrari 458? Too bad. Pagani Zonda? Ditto. Anyone a fan of the Fiesta ST? And the Focus too? Ah, yeah... About that. Oh and what's that? You like NASCAR? F1? Yeah... Once again. They like it sooooo..... I guess none of the above really are relevant any more. NASCAR and F1 will decline and soon be ITV 4 programmes shown late at night.

Sooooo sorry.
 
The Reanult Avantime for me is one of the coolest looking MPV's ever made. It styling was so forward it doesn't look dated at all, if anything it could be a 2014 new model. It also had loads of equipment on board (why it weighed a ton and cost so much).

It was quite a misguided idea because it had the fit, finish, styling and practicality of a luxury SUV but they didn't realise yuppies wouldn't be seen dead on the school run in an MPV, let alone a Renualt.

I have only ever seen one on the road, on the motorway a few years ago. If I had the need for a people carrier I would love one, especially in the signature blue and silver. It's a pity Top Gear took a fine example, trashed it and ruined its image.

The Citroen 2014 Picasso comes close to looking as quirky but this still is special.
 
The Reanult Avantime for me is one of the coolest looking grand tourers ever made. It styling was so forward it doesn't look dated at all, if anything it could be a 2014 new model. It also had loads of equipment on board (why it weighed a ton and cost so much).

It was quite a misguided idea because it had the fit, finish, styling and practicality of a luxury grand tourer but they didn't realise yuppies wouldn't be seen dead on the school run in a grand tourer, let alone a Renualt.

I have only ever seen one on the road, on the motorway a few years ago. If I had the need for a people carrier I would be making a huge mistake if I bought one as it's a luxury 2+2 grand tourer, especially in the signature blue and silver. It's a pity Top Gear took a fine example, trashed it and ruined its image.

The Citroen 2014 Picasso comes close to looking as quirky but this still is special.

Fixed.
 
In regards to the Pontiac Aztek:
1) the Aztek, didnt kill Pontiac, Pontiac died of natural cause by themselves...
The Aztek's well publicized, very expensive failure as one of the last cars developed specifically for the brand certainly didn't help Pontiac's fortunes. The above being true despite GM betting the farm on it leading the charge for a more successful future for GM as a whole (like the Oval Taurus was supposed to for Ford half a decade prior) made the failure sting all the more. That it did so despite being one of the earliest entries in a market segment that absolutely exploded for everyone else while it was on sale (including Buick, whose entry in the market was supposed to be the support vehicle to pad out unused factory output compared to the main money maker the Aztek was) while the Aztek was on sale also didn't help.

I'd say it can very much be considered Pontiac's Aurora.

Sorry to correct you, but the closest US market equivalent to the Avantime, IMO, is the Acura ZDX...
Misunderstood and hated right from the start, the car then became one of the most well known commercial flop, Very Unfortunately IMHO, because i personally thinks the ZDX is an better, good looking and cool car over the car it was based on (the Aztek-like ugly A$$ Honda (Accord) CrossTour)
That summary actually does a very good job describing the Aztek itself. I'd most certainly rather be seen in an Aztek than...


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"The Cadillac of Minivans."​
 
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