- 7,113
- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
Being a Endurance Racing fan (in real life and in gaming) but also a married guy with kids that cannot aford the luxury of keeping the PS3 all to himself, and blocked away from everyone else in the house, I have been longing for the save feature that Spec II finally gave us.
During Spec I was able to do the litle races + the Tsukuba 4 hours (writeup of this one here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=199272 )
After I got Spec II I decided to go for the other Endurance Events and I have already made both 4 Hour races, the Indy 500, the Suzuka 1000, and am doing now the Tsukuba 9 Hours.
I don't pretend to be doing here full writeups, nor do I have the talent and attention to detail I see elsewhere. My aim is simpler, I want to share what I think is essential for a good racing experience in these long races.
So, if your plan is to overpower the AI and field the X2010 or X2011 whenever possible, this thread is of no use to you.
I care about: AI pace. AI strategy. My pace. My strategy. And I want to feel the sweet taste of victory (make no mistake, I'm not masochistic), but i want to feel the need to drive skillfully to get it.
So, here's my experience shared for all that may want to read. I'll start by a quick recap of what I've done so far, and then will write about the ongoing Tsukuba 9 hours. My plan is to keep this thread updated up to the finish of both 24 hour races.
Again, these are not Race Reports. Just a few random notes of what I think might be useful/worthy of mention.
1. Endurance Career so far
a) Tsukuba 4 Hours - Did it in Spec I (came 2nd, see thread linked above) and again in Spec II (won it).
Noticeable differences were these:
1. My tires (SH) lasted longer;
2. Lead AIs are more competent at overtaking/lapping the field.
No problems whatsoever with the supposed "Tsukuba Save" glitch. Then again, I follow the rules
My advices for an interesting race:
1. pick a Miata that allows YOU to lap no better than 1'09 in the best conditions. If possible, use the clutch and H-Shifter, no ABS too.
2. You should save your tires and aim for a four-stint race (one per hour), but that's pushing it, you can literally lose the time gained in many laps of skilled driving/racing with just ONE off. My advice is ... 5 stints (45 to 50 minutes each)!
b) Nurburgring 4 Hours - This is the race that probably has the most detailed information available here in gtplanet, thanks mainly to the methodic and in-depth analysis and race reports made by the Administrator Famine and other gtplanet members. I did the race myself before I was aware of that thread and so, without knowing what I was going to face, I used Kaz's GT-R (car that was given to us with Spec II).
Therefore,
I don't have much to say about this race, the car I picked was an easy drive, maybe too easy and with fresh tires I had clearly the fastest car of the race (my best lap around the 8 minute 40+) . In my race the lead AIs were lapping around the 9 minute-mark, and this should be the most important info for you when you pick the car suited for this race.
One important thing to know is what Famine discovered about the AI field. You can either get a Field spoiled by a "rabbit car" (Audi R8 LMS or S2000 Turbo) or you can get a field that is very even between all AIs. Of course you should aim for the latter, it's better to battle a few cars than have them as road blocks while you do battle with one single car. If anyone reading this is interested in doing this race I strongly recommend a read of the mentioned thread. If you guys think I like hard enduros you'll be amazed at the reports you see there LOL
(I may consider going back to this race just to get my name in those leaderboards, but for now I'm doing a clean sweep of the enduros, and my aim is to reach the 24 hours races with enough knowledge to make them fun, not a chore)
Best Nurb 4H thread : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=207993
Again, and back to my "amateur" approach, just one advice valid to all enduros, but especially valid in this very long track. Don't think of pitting only when your tires are almost going off. The time you lose by pitting one lap sooner will be nothing compared to a slow-limping lap around the Nordschleife, with a few spins and visits to the grass or sand along the way.
c) Indy 500 Miles - I don't know what made PD go for a LMP lineup for this race, when they have the Formula GT car and could very well create a "spec" race with it, like the true Indy is (spec Dallara/Hondas are the cars in IRL racing). It's totally unrealistic.
Anyway, no matter what you do, this race is boring. Won't ever touch it again. Went in with the 1999 Le Mans winner BMW, just changed the oil and put downforce to the max. Easy win. Bye bye.
PS - If you really want to do it (Jag XJ13 is the prize, and it's a sweet ride ) go for a car that allows no better than 0'44 per lap. Should be interesting, and do try to save the tyres, it does make a difference. Like this:
Button-style driving - 40 lap stints (you lose one second per lap, just slightly ease off the throttle in corner entry)
Hamilton-style driving - 32 lap stints (full throttle all the way, one second per lap faster)
d) Suzuka 1000 Kms - What a great race I had with this one. Went in with an outdated (and supposedly outpaced) JGTC car, the GT-R Pennzoil from 1999. No tweaking whatsoever, just an oil change and downforce maxxed (of course, driving with no ABS I also changed the odd 5/5 default brake balance to my usual 3/1.)
This is a race with 172 laps and at first I thought about doing 15 lap-stints, but soon found out that after the 13th lap I was out on the track just looking for trouble, be it Turn 1, Degner 1, Degner 2, Spoon or even 130R, before outbraking myself to Casio. It's just not worth the risk
What made my race memorable is that I never had an exact notion of what was going on. I knew who I was battling but even then, and to my amazement, it wasn't one AI, or two twin AIs close together doing the same thing. I was battling two formidable adversaries with two different strenghts:
1. The "flyer" - NSX TAKATA (the green one) - fastest car on track, he flew from the field at the beggining of the race (I remember thinking "... awww, sucks, another rabbit-car race ... ". Turns out he made his stints last too long, and used to lose a lot of time in the last few laps of each stint. That cost him.
2. The "pace-setter" - NSX RAYBRIG (the blue one). Not as quick as the TAKATA, he was however better strategy-wise. Meaning, he did shorter stints, and kept his pace more constant.
So, battling two cars that never pitted at the same time, and, as the race progressed, were not even close racing each other (or me, for that matter), was a race against the clock, against tire wear, against mistakes, against the gap shown on screen, always trying to figure out "WHO" was "WHERE" in the track map. One of us would win, it would depend solely on where/how we were doing in the last lap.
Turns out, I won (from lap 112 to lap 172 I followed a strict diet of 12-lap stints, didn't want any more scares), and the Raybrig NSX came second, after the Takata NSX pitted two laps before the end.
Generally speaking, anyone that wants to try this race should go for a car that allows a 2'04 lap in optimal conditions, maybe flirting with 2'03 with the help of draft. Taking a car to this race than allows you to lap faster than this is asking for boredom.
e) Tsukuba 9 Hours - Done and won, it was a great race, and a fantastic gaming experience. You have my full and detailed report of this race below in this page (post #14), please check it. If you don't fancy a long read, here my "closing words" from that writeup, a few suggestions directed to all that intend to do this race:
f) Nurburgring 24 Hours 1st attempt -Called "*Taking David Brabham's Panoz to a LMP fight*, I consider it one of my finest races.
Sadly, by the 13th our, while in the lead but under a lot of pressure due to a fundamental change in the race (atmospherically triggered), my home suffered a power failure and for whatever unexplainable reason the game on restart had lost the last save of the race.
The full write up of that race (and the preparation leading to it) is now placed in post #60
direct link to it: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6179816#post6179816
But I'd say the most important info you need is:
a) The grids are fixed. Hit start and quit, start and quit, start and quit a few times to check the grids the game offers you. Take notes of them and then compare. Some are better than others and they're ALWAYS the same. Apparently not the same to everyone (emmetbrown1955 got himself a grid that doesn't match any of my first TEN so I have to assume each game follows a different pattern). So ... find your own dream grid!
b) There's no such thing as a good car to make the race exciting /challenging. Because I know people that lap faster than me, and people that lap slower than me. What you must go for is:
- A car that allows you to race close to the 8'00 in the dry.
- A car that is not a beast to drive, because consistency is key here and this is a very tiring race. If your car is fast, but you have to fight it to keep it on the black stuff for an entire lap ... pick another.
- A car that allows 3 easy laps (dry) and a 4th if needed Some cars "eat" their tires, and that's not good.
c) If your tires are already below half-bar at the start of a lap, it is likely that two things will happen:
That's it, good luck!
g) Nurburgring 24 Hours 2nd attempt -Called "*Back with a Vengeance!*, because I lost my first attempt while leading, under unfortunate circumstances explained above.
This race was very different from the first one for a good number of reasons:
a) Mostly dry (only 4 hours of wet track)
b) I was more experienced, therefore faster and more consistent;
c) I had a good notion of where I was, where my foe was and most of all of where I needed to be to keep a chance of winning.
The full writeup of this race is now stored in post #84 of this thread, here a direct link to it:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6224171#post6224171
g) Le Mans 24 Hours -Called "*Settling Old Scores or The Return of the Long Tail*, because I used the beautiful and excellent LM racer developed by McLaren (and powered by BMW) as a Spec II of the Le Mans winner McLaren F1 (short tail). This car, developed to counter the likes of all the pure race cars disguised as GT (especially from Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota) was very successful, but never managed to win Le Mans.
This race was very different from the Nurburgring races. If you pick a slower car to face the LMPs you're in for a bit of trouble at the very high speed track. But if you pick an LMP yourself you will probably die of boredom litle after the first couple of hours.
There's a full report of my race in this thread (check the link below) but I will just give out what I think is most important to consider:
a) Your car must be able to reach at least 330 kmh without the help of draft (the Panoz would be helpless in this race)
b) Go with Race Softs, you'll need the grip to compensate speed;
c) Avoid cheating through corner cutting. Sadly it can be done in several sections of this track (notably the final chicanes) but it takes all enjoyment away.
d) Aim for a solid run of 3'35,000 laps (lead AIs do 3'30,000 or slightly better) and be smooth, you'll need to do longer stints then them. Try 11 laps, and never les than 10;
e) Check the grids the game offers you. They're ALWAYS the same. In my case, I raced the 11th grid, it's a handful.
f) Night racing isn't as difficult as in the Nurb, generally the track is very visible and didn't feel any problem finding the apexes in the dark;
Disclaimer: I had a 100% dry race, so can't give any advice for wet racing.
The full writeup of this race is now stored in post #121 of this thread, here a direct link to it:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6341303#post6341303
2. Endurance Career in progress
No race in progress currently.
3. Pictorial Tribute to my Endurance Champions
I
TSUKUBA 4 HOURS ROADSTER RACE WINNER
YELLOW MAZDA MIATA, NA VERSION
II
NURBURGRING 4 HOURS RACE WINNER
KAZUNORI'S NISSAN GT-R
III
INDY 500 RACE WINNER
BMW V12 LMR RACE CAR
IV
SUZUKA 1000 KMS RACE WINNER
NISSAN SKYLINE GTR PENNZOIL RACE CAR
V
TSUKUBA 9 HOURS RACE WINNER
CATERHAM SUPER SEVEN
VI
NURBURGRING 24 HOURS RACE WINNER
PANOZ ESPERANTE GTR-1 RACE CAR
VII
LE MANS 24 HOURS RACE WINNER
MCLAREN F1 GTR LONG TAIL RACE CAR
👍 !Thank you all! 👍
During Spec I was able to do the litle races + the Tsukuba 4 hours (writeup of this one here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=199272 )
After I got Spec II I decided to go for the other Endurance Events and I have already made both 4 Hour races, the Indy 500, the Suzuka 1000, and am doing now the Tsukuba 9 Hours.
I don't pretend to be doing here full writeups, nor do I have the talent and attention to detail I see elsewhere. My aim is simpler, I want to share what I think is essential for a good racing experience in these long races.
So, if your plan is to overpower the AI and field the X2010 or X2011 whenever possible, this thread is of no use to you.
I care about: AI pace. AI strategy. My pace. My strategy. And I want to feel the sweet taste of victory (make no mistake, I'm not masochistic), but i want to feel the need to drive skillfully to get it.
So, here's my experience shared for all that may want to read. I'll start by a quick recap of what I've done so far, and then will write about the ongoing Tsukuba 9 hours. My plan is to keep this thread updated up to the finish of both 24 hour races.
Again, these are not Race Reports. Just a few random notes of what I think might be useful/worthy of mention.
1. Endurance Career so far
a) Tsukuba 4 Hours - Did it in Spec I (came 2nd, see thread linked above) and again in Spec II (won it).
Noticeable differences were these:
1. My tires (SH) lasted longer;
2. Lead AIs are more competent at overtaking/lapping the field.
No problems whatsoever with the supposed "Tsukuba Save" glitch. Then again, I follow the rules
My advices for an interesting race:
1. pick a Miata that allows YOU to lap no better than 1'09 in the best conditions. If possible, use the clutch and H-Shifter, no ABS too.
2. You should save your tires and aim for a four-stint race (one per hour), but that's pushing it, you can literally lose the time gained in many laps of skilled driving/racing with just ONE off. My advice is ... 5 stints (45 to 50 minutes each)!
b) Nurburgring 4 Hours - This is the race that probably has the most detailed information available here in gtplanet, thanks mainly to the methodic and in-depth analysis and race reports made by the Administrator Famine and other gtplanet members. I did the race myself before I was aware of that thread and so, without knowing what I was going to face, I used Kaz's GT-R (car that was given to us with Spec II).
Therefore,
I don't have much to say about this race, the car I picked was an easy drive, maybe too easy and with fresh tires I had clearly the fastest car of the race (my best lap around the 8 minute 40+) . In my race the lead AIs were lapping around the 9 minute-mark, and this should be the most important info for you when you pick the car suited for this race.
One important thing to know is what Famine discovered about the AI field. You can either get a Field spoiled by a "rabbit car" (Audi R8 LMS or S2000 Turbo) or you can get a field that is very even between all AIs. Of course you should aim for the latter, it's better to battle a few cars than have them as road blocks while you do battle with one single car. If anyone reading this is interested in doing this race I strongly recommend a read of the mentioned thread. If you guys think I like hard enduros you'll be amazed at the reports you see there LOL
(I may consider going back to this race just to get my name in those leaderboards, but for now I'm doing a clean sweep of the enduros, and my aim is to reach the 24 hours races with enough knowledge to make them fun, not a chore)
Best Nurb 4H thread : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=207993
Again, and back to my "amateur" approach, just one advice valid to all enduros, but especially valid in this very long track. Don't think of pitting only when your tires are almost going off. The time you lose by pitting one lap sooner will be nothing compared to a slow-limping lap around the Nordschleife, with a few spins and visits to the grass or sand along the way.
c) Indy 500 Miles - I don't know what made PD go for a LMP lineup for this race, when they have the Formula GT car and could very well create a "spec" race with it, like the true Indy is (spec Dallara/Hondas are the cars in IRL racing). It's totally unrealistic.
Anyway, no matter what you do, this race is boring. Won't ever touch it again. Went in with the 1999 Le Mans winner BMW, just changed the oil and put downforce to the max. Easy win. Bye bye.
PS - If you really want to do it (Jag XJ13 is the prize, and it's a sweet ride ) go for a car that allows no better than 0'44 per lap. Should be interesting, and do try to save the tyres, it does make a difference. Like this:
Button-style driving - 40 lap stints (you lose one second per lap, just slightly ease off the throttle in corner entry)
Hamilton-style driving - 32 lap stints (full throttle all the way, one second per lap faster)
d) Suzuka 1000 Kms - What a great race I had with this one. Went in with an outdated (and supposedly outpaced) JGTC car, the GT-R Pennzoil from 1999. No tweaking whatsoever, just an oil change and downforce maxxed (of course, driving with no ABS I also changed the odd 5/5 default brake balance to my usual 3/1.)
This is a race with 172 laps and at first I thought about doing 15 lap-stints, but soon found out that after the 13th lap I was out on the track just looking for trouble, be it Turn 1, Degner 1, Degner 2, Spoon or even 130R, before outbraking myself to Casio. It's just not worth the risk
What made my race memorable is that I never had an exact notion of what was going on. I knew who I was battling but even then, and to my amazement, it wasn't one AI, or two twin AIs close together doing the same thing. I was battling two formidable adversaries with two different strenghts:
1. The "flyer" - NSX TAKATA (the green one) - fastest car on track, he flew from the field at the beggining of the race (I remember thinking "... awww, sucks, another rabbit-car race ... ". Turns out he made his stints last too long, and used to lose a lot of time in the last few laps of each stint. That cost him.
2. The "pace-setter" - NSX RAYBRIG (the blue one). Not as quick as the TAKATA, he was however better strategy-wise. Meaning, he did shorter stints, and kept his pace more constant.
So, battling two cars that never pitted at the same time, and, as the race progressed, were not even close racing each other (or me, for that matter), was a race against the clock, against tire wear, against mistakes, against the gap shown on screen, always trying to figure out "WHO" was "WHERE" in the track map. One of us would win, it would depend solely on where/how we were doing in the last lap.
Turns out, I won (from lap 112 to lap 172 I followed a strict diet of 12-lap stints, didn't want any more scares), and the Raybrig NSX came second, after the Takata NSX pitted two laps before the end.
Generally speaking, anyone that wants to try this race should go for a car that allows a 2'04 lap in optimal conditions, maybe flirting with 2'03 with the help of draft. Taking a car to this race than allows you to lap faster than this is asking for boredom.
e) Tsukuba 9 Hours - Done and won, it was a great race, and a fantastic gaming experience. You have my full and detailed report of this race below in this page (post #14), please check it. If you don't fancy a long read, here my "closing words" from that writeup, a few suggestions directed to all that intend to do this race:
Hun200kmh
f) Nurburgring 24 Hours 1st attempt -Called "*Taking David Brabham's Panoz to a LMP fight*, I consider it one of my finest races.
Sadly, by the 13th our, while in the lead but under a lot of pressure due to a fundamental change in the race (atmospherically triggered), my home suffered a power failure and for whatever unexplainable reason the game on restart had lost the last save of the race.
The full write up of that race (and the preparation leading to it) is now placed in post #60
direct link to it: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6179816#post6179816
But I'd say the most important info you need is:
a) The grids are fixed. Hit start and quit, start and quit, start and quit a few times to check the grids the game offers you. Take notes of them and then compare. Some are better than others and they're ALWAYS the same. Apparently not the same to everyone (emmetbrown1955 got himself a grid that doesn't match any of my first TEN so I have to assume each game follows a different pattern). So ... find your own dream grid!
b) There's no such thing as a good car to make the race exciting /challenging. Because I know people that lap faster than me, and people that lap slower than me. What you must go for is:
- A car that allows you to race close to the 8'00 in the dry.
- A car that is not a beast to drive, because consistency is key here and this is a very tiring race. If your car is fast, but you have to fight it to keep it on the black stuff for an entire lap ... pick another.
- A car that allows 3 easy laps (dry) and a 4th if needed Some cars "eat" their tires, and that's not good.
c) If your tires are already below half-bar at the start of a lap, it is likely that two things will happen:
1. They'll be completely worn out before that lap ends;
2. You will visit the grass, spin. hit the barriers, etc, at least once in that lap. If not more times.
Don't push your luck. My advice? PIT.2. You will visit the grass, spin. hit the barriers, etc, at least once in that lap. If not more times.
That's it, good luck!
g) Nurburgring 24 Hours 2nd attempt -Called "*Back with a Vengeance!*, because I lost my first attempt while leading, under unfortunate circumstances explained above.
This race was very different from the first one for a good number of reasons:
a) Mostly dry (only 4 hours of wet track)
b) I was more experienced, therefore faster and more consistent;
c) I had a good notion of where I was, where my foe was and most of all of where I needed to be to keep a chance of winning.
The full writeup of this race is now stored in post #84 of this thread, here a direct link to it:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6224171#post6224171
g) Le Mans 24 Hours -Called "*Settling Old Scores or The Return of the Long Tail*, because I used the beautiful and excellent LM racer developed by McLaren (and powered by BMW) as a Spec II of the Le Mans winner McLaren F1 (short tail). This car, developed to counter the likes of all the pure race cars disguised as GT (especially from Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota) was very successful, but never managed to win Le Mans.
This race was very different from the Nurburgring races. If you pick a slower car to face the LMPs you're in for a bit of trouble at the very high speed track. But if you pick an LMP yourself you will probably die of boredom litle after the first couple of hours.
There's a full report of my race in this thread (check the link below) but I will just give out what I think is most important to consider:
a) Your car must be able to reach at least 330 kmh without the help of draft (the Panoz would be helpless in this race)
b) Go with Race Softs, you'll need the grip to compensate speed;
c) Avoid cheating through corner cutting. Sadly it can be done in several sections of this track (notably the final chicanes) but it takes all enjoyment away.
d) Aim for a solid run of 3'35,000 laps (lead AIs do 3'30,000 or slightly better) and be smooth, you'll need to do longer stints then them. Try 11 laps, and never les than 10;
e) Check the grids the game offers you. They're ALWAYS the same. In my case, I raced the 11th grid, it's a handful.
f) Night racing isn't as difficult as in the Nurb, generally the track is very visible and didn't feel any problem finding the apexes in the dark;
Disclaimer: I had a 100% dry race, so can't give any advice for wet racing.
The full writeup of this race is now stored in post #121 of this thread, here a direct link to it:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6341303#post6341303
2. Endurance Career in progress
No race in progress currently.
3. Pictorial Tribute to my Endurance Champions
I
TSUKUBA 4 HOURS ROADSTER RACE WINNER
YELLOW MAZDA MIATA, NA VERSION
II
NURBURGRING 4 HOURS RACE WINNER
KAZUNORI'S NISSAN GT-R
III
INDY 500 RACE WINNER
BMW V12 LMR RACE CAR
IV
SUZUKA 1000 KMS RACE WINNER
NISSAN SKYLINE GTR PENNZOIL RACE CAR
V
TSUKUBA 9 HOURS RACE WINNER
CATERHAM SUPER SEVEN
VI
NURBURGRING 24 HOURS RACE WINNER
PANOZ ESPERANTE GTR-1 RACE CAR
VII
LE MANS 24 HOURS RACE WINNER
MCLAREN F1 GTR LONG TAIL RACE CAR
👍 !Thank you all! 👍
Last edited:
).
that's too much and to top it I noticed my tire wear after two laps was indicative that this car needs 3 lap stints.
