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Discussion in 'WRS Archive' started by Sphinx, Jan 20, 2009.
0:52.503 - GTP_grevling9294
NOTE: I didn't podium but I'm going to submit my replay for verification - I had another member review it and it seems clean but there is a very, very close call just before the T1 split. Would be interested in someone else's opinion given the other issues that have been found with other replays. Thanks!
My replay, NTSC format:
GTP_Tzayad - 52.421
GTP_LinPark - 52.637
GTP_Vaxen's replay is Dirty,
You hit the wall just before turning left into turn 6 just after the T1 split you can hear a sound on bumper and cockpit view and slightly on the outside view
I am very sure that Vaxen and the others never intended to submit a dirty lap, but I can imagine the mods get pretty annoyed by the number of faulty submissions that have occured the last few months. My submission for week 05 was dirty as well
Perhaps we can, for a limited period, change the rulings in such a way that laps will be checked PRIOR to submission. With the swiftness of checking of the last few weeks that might not be a problem at all.
I agree that I hit it, now that I've rechecked it , (heard it)
but I could not hear it the first time since I played with sounds off.
I race bumper cam mode , but as told alredy with no sounds.
Limitation or not silence is golden for me.
I apologise for submitting lap I didn't know or ever expected to be dirty.
Here my replay
Nice and clean and a joy to watch.
Laps should always be checked prior to submission (by the person submitting them). And, if you are unsure of your lap, please contact one of the race admins, or someone you trust, to provide a second opinion.
We even had this issue in the IFTC event at Daytona Road, when the top 10 replays were available for all to view online and there were still multiple DQ's. The best answer for all of this is to not submit close calls.
I had 2 laps that were saved as possible submissions, and I scrapped them both and did not submit because they would likely have been DQ'd. I wasn't sure they were clean, so I considered them dirty.
And I'm not above reproach. I had 2 DQ's for touches in GT4 WRS. But I've learned from that, which is the most important thing that any of the affected drivers can do.
I watched my replay half a dozen times before submission, and didn't hear the contact. I also saw no movement of the car, so any contact must have been very, very light. However, after your post, two others have viewed the replay and agreed.
I'll take another look at it tonight.
Apologies to all for any mistakes I may have made.
I think this is what it bottles down to. We made mistakes (2nd for me, following the Mini, at London forward), but we've learnt or should learn from them. I certainly have, Week 12 shall be interesting for touches and I will take forward the note of turning off the in-game music and turning up my telly. No one deliberately submits a dirty lap, but if someone does, but doesn't acknowledge it/learn from their mistakes, then it is different. We're all here for one thing. To have fun. I can't believe anyone here is interested in lynching people if they submit a dirty lap (might be different in relation to wrong physics, tyres, etc) but then apologise.
Indeed it is about fun, but it's also important in upholding the integrity of the WRS and showing that the longest running GT OLR event on the Internet still maintains the high standards that it is renowned for.
When anyone submits a time in any OLR event they are also declaring to everyone that the submitted time is clean and according to standard OLR rules & Race Specifics. If the submitted time turns out to be dirty then it really is a black mark for the driver concerned.
Mistakes can be made, we accept that, but we do expect our drivers to learn from them.
Absolutely. How long has the WRS been going? Was it on GT3?
184 Weeks on GT4, preceded by 106 weeks of GT3.
First WRS Posted - GT3, Week 1.
Coming around to 6 years of WRS, in just one month.
I've been around for less than 2, since week 112 of GT4 WRS.
Was going to check Vaxen's replay for another persons view but just can't seem to get it out of zipped files. I can open them from any other site but not GTPlanet's. Been like this for months.
Sure wished PD would of fixed it so we could freeze replay's. It can be a real pain trying to check close calls.
My replay isn't required but here it is anyway.
What I have done is recorded the replay with a digital camera then watched it frame-by-frame. I presume most digital cameras with video capabilities/Camcorders can do this. Mine is only 640x480 pixels!
I had a chance to review my submission again.
When I review submissions, I use the chase cam for a first viewing, and cinematic cam or sometimes hood/trunk cam for additional views on close calls. Even though I always drive with it, bumper cam is generally useless as you can't see the dimensions of the car, so it's impossible to tell by watching if a car hits anything.
I look for two things when evaluating suspected contact:
- was there noticeable deflection of the car from the contact (usually easy to see)
- was there a speed bobble at the moment of impact (not always conclusive, and usually hard to see, but often the "smoking gun")
I haven't used sound as a determining factor, but usually it's a huge clue (and very obvious, especially after they exaggerated the sound effect in Spec III) that one of the other contact conditions will be seen.
I have to say, after turning up the sound effects, and watching my replay several times, from the chase cam, I hear no sound at all. There is also no deflection of the car at all. There is a speed bobble at the moment in question. Checking other corners, there are speed bobbles at nearly every apex (usually coinciding with rumble strips). There are no rumbles at the moment in question. If I were evaluating this replay from someone else, I would not have flagged the run as dirty or questionable.
However, when viewing the replay in the bumper cam, there is a barely audible scraping sound at the moment in question. This coincides exactly with the speed bobble.
This is very reminiscent of the wall contact discussed in rmk700's replay from WRS event 01. The conclusion in that case was that the run was clean, but with question marks. There is some irony here (karma?) that I was the admin that flagged the run as dirty.
So bottom line: I agree that there is enough evidence to suggest wall contact may have occurred, so I will DQ myself.
Apologies to all for submitting a questionable run.
Right I'm just wondering, because your lap is a DQ, does that mean that I get promoted onto the podium ? If so I will send my lap replay tommorrow.
Fuzzy,your replay is not requested.
And about the disqualifications,Sphinx did phrase it well,and PD didn't helped much by giving no tools at all to help in reviewing.
So with the slightest doubt,do not submit.
In GT3 we had slow motion and date-logger ,GT4 the photo-mode and data-logger so I hope for GT5 all we don't have now.
If memory serves, you stated that every event in the WRS has a meaning - given the trials we all went through on this one I was wondering if you could share the meaning behind this particular one.
You want a meaning, what about: slower means faster?
That sounds about right
LinPark,it is clear you wanted to say something with your comment and I am not sure what.
I think for myself it is ment to be negative but perhaps I have it wrong and is it ment to be funny?
So,it would help if you just say what is on your mind,
we do that in Holland all the time.
Also this sentence "giving the trails we all went through"
Do you speak for all the participants?
I don't see anything negative in asking this question, maybe some people need a little help in seeing what they may have picked up and learned by a certain event and Dustdriver obliged with a answer for them.
Apart from holl01 who sails through most time trials, most people would have had a hard time trying to get the required lap that put some sort of smile on their face
Whoa, sorry man ... didn't mean to set you off there. I was recalling the sequence of events in the original thread that started here:
Honestly, I think this was one of the hardest Time Trial events to get a clean run on consistently that I have taken part in (just look at all the DQ's). Maybe I misread your original post - no big deal to me at this point and sorry for bothering you.
I already answered the question myself
Followed by this post from LinPark
which was funny.
So that is the reason i asked this.
Btw .thanks for explaining, LinPark.
Nope. I enjoyed it, eventually, a different challenge. Pushing the limits of the drivers, over the limit in my case
Despite my post in the Suggestions thread, I don't think we should have any set role for the WRS, the more varied the better. At one of the UKGTP's we did Stormers at Monaco, in comparison GT-Rs at London reverse was simple!
i posted my replay back at post 5 hasn't been reviewed yet unless i missed on one of the other post's, NTSC, thanks
One replay for a review before making it official.
GTP_Nuclearfire - NTSC (post 5)
GTP_Nuclearfire Correct specs and clean.