H&R vs. Eibach springs?

  • Thread starter Geeky1
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Geeky1

Geeky1

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So the car I drive in real life is a 1986 Mercedes 560SEL. It's huge, it's heavy, but it's got a nice, big all-aluminum V8 and it's reasonably fast. I like it quite a bit... However, it's time for new tires.

Now, I've been wanting to buy new wheels for it for a while, and there are finally some wheels out there that'll fit it, that I like, that aren't absurdly expensive, and since I REFUSE to buy a set of tires for the wheels on it now, then buy new wheels and tires for it 6 months down the road, I'm just gonna buy the wheels now. And, while I'm at it, I might as well put the lowering springs I've been thinking about on it as well.

Now for the dilemma... H&R or Eibach springs? Both companies make kits for the car, and I don't really know anything about either company. The price difference is marginal (the H&Rs are like $40 cheaper), so that's not a big factor. I had someone on a Mercedes forum say that the H&R springs are higher quality than the Eibachs, but I have no idea if they're right or not.

Comments?
 
I had H&R springs on '98 Accord LX, and Eibach Sportline on my current car, '04 Altima 2.5s. Between the two, I liked the H&R waaaay better. H&R had this perfect combination of "ride" and "handling", and I really miss it. Now, my Sportline is the harder of the two lines they have(I can't remember what softer line was called). Maybe it's just that Sportline's ride is supposed to be harsh. Unfortunately, I'm not too impressed with the performance either. :guilty: The application makes a huge difference, so keep that in mind. I believe both H&R and Eibach are German, so I'm sure you are getting a quality product either way.

Good luck!
 
it really depends what you want from your car. to make an informed decision, you'd need to find out the spring rate and ride height of each brand, and see how they fit in with the rest of the suspension plans you have for the car (ie: do you need short stroke shocks? do you want it insanely low or just slightly? etc)

just because one brand makes a good product for one car doesn't mean their product is ideal for another type of car. the only way i could see a spring being better "quality" would be if one brand aren't making their springs correctly and they're getting massively soft over time. all springs wear out eventually

personally, i would (and have in the past) look at what you have now, look at what's available out there off the shelf, what you want to achieve, read some books and webpages about handing, do some calculations based on weight and % bias front/rear, then get custom springs made
 
I intend to :) I've got a lot of things left to do to it (euro headlights, removing the headlamp wipers/washers, possibly clear corners [not sure yet], window tinting and a paintjob... in addition to the drivetrain mods) but it's getting there. :)
 
Ok... before & after pics. Sort of.

The wheels are on the car... the springs are in the car but not on it... :guilty: They're in the trunk. Why? Because I decided that while I'm replacing the springs, since I'll have everything apart ANYHOW, I might as well go ahead and replace other stuff, even though it's not worn out... I decided to replace the front shocks, the rear hydraulic struts (no shocks on the rear), and all the bushings too.

So, when I've got the money to order another $1500 or so worth of parts for the car, I'll go ahead and put the springs on... :crazy:

In the meantime, here are 4 pics. The way it was, the front and rear fenderwells after they were hosed down with a pressure washer and some cleaner (simple green on the front, which didn't work so well, and Meguiar's Hot Rims all wheel cleaner, which did much better on the back), and the way it looks now with the new wheels (but no suspension mods):




 
Looks pretty good. Is that white or the piss-yellow? (My dad's got a piss-yellow '82 300SD).
How many miles on it?
 
Looks nice, reckon it will look even better when lowered as there is quite a big gap between the tyres and the body. What size wheels are they?
 
Slicks
Looks pretty good. Is that white or the piss-yellow? (My dad's got a piss-yellow '82 300SD).
How many miles on it?
Click to expand...

Heh. It's piss yellow. The lighter of the two shades of it that was available on 1980s MBz. :P And right now it has ~146,000 miles... about 6k since I had a valve job done (complete with new cams, timing chain, etc.)
 
*pokes thread*

Well, the car is going under the knife on the 20th. Christmas present from the grandparents...

Getting the springs installed, along with new bushings, Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks in the front, new struts, and a hydraulic fluid and filter change. Hopefully it'll handle a lot better :)
 
It's got excellent road manners (or at least I think so) as it is, but I'm sure the springs will further improve upon it.
I must say that I envy you a little. Nice car.
 
Slicks
It's got excellent road manners (or at least I think so) as it is, but I'm sure the springs will further improve upon it.
I must say that I envy you a little. Nice car.
Click to expand...

Thanks :) And it does, yes. It's only when you really, really get on it that it doesn't do quite so well in some respects. I've never had the car do anything unpredictable or try to bite me in the ass. If you push it too hard the back end will come out, but it does so slowly and it's easy to get it back under control... but it makes it abundantly clear that it does NOT want to be driven like an MG. It will do it... and for a 4025lb car it does it quite respectably, imo. But it doesn't like doing it, as evidenced by the massive amount of body roll you get when you drive it like that.

I'm hoping the springs, bushings, shocks, etc. will cure a lot of that.
 
Looks nice (though imageshack seems to hate my firefox :( ).

What underhood modifications do you have planned?

That car would look great riding low all in black.
 
Imageshack is having issues right now. They have been for the past week or so. :grumpy:

Here's a link to the pic mirrored on my photobucket account:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Geeky1/Cars/new.jpg

Anywho. They do look awesome in black:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Geeky1/Cars/560AMG-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Geeky1/Cars/560AMG-2.jpg

xcsti
What underhood modifications do you have planned?
Click to expand...

Well... until I find someone to either reinforce the transmission that's in the car or put a different transmission in it, not a lot. The 560s are notorious for shredding transmissions every 100,000 miles or so. The 5.6L M117 engine has about as much torque as the transmission can handle, and adding more power isn't gonna help it any. However, AMG did get ~375hp out of them in the '80s so...

Anyhow, the list (some of this stuff is years down the road):

Engine
  • Custom Tri-Y headers (good for 45whp according to people that have them)
  • Dual 2.5" exhaust with 2 high flow cats, muffler(s) are undecided atm (I'm going to try for something like the way the Cayenne sounds... not silent, but not intrusive. Just loud enough to let people that pay attention know that the car has some power)
  • Boring & stroking to 6.0L along with a complete balancing & blueprinting job
  • AMG 32 valve DOHC cylinder heads
  • Supercharger or twin turbos (both have been done before... the supercharged car has 450whp iirc, the twin turbo has 620)
  • Replacement of the KE-Jetronic plate style airflow sensor with a conventional mass airflow sensor (which is apparently good for 30hp on Porsche 944 Turbos), if not the replacement of the entire system with Megasquirt
  • Lightweight billet aluminum pulleys (not sure how much it'll help... but it'll look good and my grandparents own a precision machining company, so it won't cost me anything but time :))
  • Lighter flywheel (possibly)
  • Extrude honing the intake manifold

    Chassis/suspension:
  • Some form of rigidity enhancement... strut tower braces possibly, subframe connectors, I'm not sure yet
  • Larger brakes (11.9"/10.9" F/R now, I'd like bigger)
  • Faster steering ratio, if possible (stock = 3 turns lock-lock)

    Exterior:
  • European style single lens headlights (the lights on the black car I linked to)
  • Removal of the headlight wipers
  • Paintjob... Black, silver, pearlescent white, dark metallic red or blue. Not sure yet; whatever color it is though the body cladding and bumpers will be painted to match.
  • Paint the plastic part of the grille black (see the black car I linked to earlier again)
  • Tinted windows
  • *POSSIBLY* quad exhaust tips a la BMW M5/MB E55, but I'm gonna draw/photoshop that up first to see if I really like how it looks.
  • *POSSIBLY* this body kit: http://www.spoilers.com/ge/mercew126.htm I'm about as anti-rice as you can get, and as such I have almost a reflexive "no!" action to any mention of body kits. But I think that might make the car look a bit cleaner and more modern than it does now... it's not a huge departure from the stock body cladding. I'm not sure, I've been thinking about it for two years. It requires more thought.
  • *POSSIBLY* Clear corners/clear+red taillights (see the black car again). Once again... I'm *really* anti-rice, and my first reaction to this was "no!" but I'm not sure. It'd be after the car is painted because it wouldn't look good with them at all now. But that black one has them and it looks pretty good...
  • I may also put the 560SEL badge back on it

    Interior:
  • New front seats; the stock ones are comfortable but offer the lateral support of a La-Z-Boy. I'm thinking the seats out of an E55.
  • New rear seats... stock it has a power bench seat (it can be reclined and moved). It'll be replaced with either the back seat out of a 126 with the 4 place seating package or two bucket seats with a console)
  • Door panels out of a 1989+ car... go from 4 speakers to something like 12
  • Replace/refinish the burl walnut trim. Depending on the interior and exterior colors it may be replaced with an ebony veneer, brushed aluminum or a number of other materials.
  • *POSSIBLY* white gauge faces
  • Repaint the faded plastic gauge needles or replace them with metal ones, if it's possible to make them light enough
  • Chrome/brushed aluminum gauge bezels
  • Upgrade of all the interior lights to LEDs, possibly borrowing some accent lighting ideas from the W220 S-Class (e.g. footwell lights, lights behind the door handles, etc.)
  • New head unit (I kept the stock Becker Grand Prix for now because I'm cheap and it still works, and because people are less likely to steal that than they are a $400 Alpine HU :P)
  • More powerful subs (current setup = 2 Polk GNX-124s @ 200w RMS each; ~115dB down to 14Hz according to the simulations I've run)
  • New leather/carpet... color depends, but the carpet will probably be thick wool... think the kind found in 1986-ish Jaguar Vanden Plas and you get the idea, and I may borrow the sued headliner and dashboard covering idea that MB used on the S600 too.

That's all I can think of right now... My goal for the car is to make it as good as possible at as many things as possible... a 1980s S55/65, if you will. I want something that looks different than other 126s (and they're all over the place around here) without being too radical. Something conservative, elegant and understated that sets the car apart without making it stand out. And I want it to be fast... as it is it's not *slow*, but I want something that'll chew 911s and Corvettes up and spit them out, at least in a straight line. But I'd also like it to handle well for its size. Nothing that's 17 feet long that weighs over 2 tons will ever handle spectacularly compared to say, a Lotus Elise or a Z06 or something, but it could do better than it does stock. And I want something that's comfortable. In one sentence, I suppose my goal is to enhance the 'iron fist in a velvet glove' element of the car... The automotive embodiment of Oscar De La Hoya in an Armani suit, if you willl; he may look sophisticated and reserved and maybe not all that powerful... but if he hauls off and punches you, sophisticated appearance or not, your head's still gonna ring. :)
 
Well, it's due back tomorrow afternoon, so we'll see how it goes. The mechanic said the ball joints had some play in them, and the center link and tie rod ends were worn, so I had those replaced too. I'm hoping it'll make a big difference... can't wait for tomorrow afternoon :)
 
To fix your body roll problem, why not invest in some stabilizers (front tower brace, and the rear) if your car doesn't come with them that is.
I've had 'em on my last two cars, and its something you notice instantly when you take your first turn.
 
Mechanic couldn't get it aligned today, it'll be done tomorrow >_<

SRV: Why don't I put strut tower braces in?

This is why:
engine_1.jpg


No room.
 
Damn, that 5.6 V8 takes up a lot of room! My dad's Turbodiesel one has enough space in the engine bay that you can practically stand in it!
 
Got it back earlier this afternoon. It needs a bath but the springs are on. It drives much better, the body is much more tightly controlled and it doesn't ride as hard as my dad's E55 does.

Pic:
 
Good point about having no room. Must be a female dog to work on the engine of that thing.

lol, and either brake stands or someones wearin' in a new set of rear brakes pretty good.
 
lol, I wish I'd been doing brake stands... :( They just rotated the tires when they aligned it. And yes, the front brakes generate that much dust (though it hasn't been washed in a few weeks... it's been too cold). It's a 4035lb car and something like 70% of the braking is done by the front brakes. :)

And yeah, they crammed the V8s in those things pretty tightly. It's not nearly as bad as the W140 chassis with the V12 (1992-1999 S600/CL600) was, but it's not the easiest car in the world to work on either. And it's not just that it's crammed in there either... it's that when you pull the air cleaner you're greeted by the kind of mess that's usually associated with Jaguar V12s... vacuum hoses, fuel injection lines, wires, etc. all over the place:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Geeky1/Cars/engine.jpg :yuck:

^ That's why I avoid doing work on the car myself if I can. :P Parents won't let me drive their cars, too much risk of me b0rking something in there and not being able to drive the thing until I get it fixed. :ill:
 

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