H2O Cooling Build Log (Retiring) 4-way SLI - Successful

[Eric.]

I hope I won't have to upgrade for a long time, I'm out of money...

That's what credit cards and bank loans are for, Pako.

 

[Pako]

Updated: Added some final pics of the build on the first post.

 

[nick09]

I presume you are not telling the wife on how much this did cost you. If I did see the total price my eyes would probably be bugging out for about 5 minutes with envy.

Also... Is it just me or am I just getting sick of the vibrant colors?

 

[Pako]

Ummm...yeah. I don't even want to know what I have into it. I have an idea, but I don't wonna know exactly...

 

[Solid Lifters]

How fast is it? How long to open certain applications and stuff? Getting on to MSN with my PC takes at least 25-35 seconds. Then, before I can move anything on screen takes about another 20-30 seconds. It's like a pirate ship's wheel on my crotch (driving me nuts).

I noticed 3000MHz rated FSB! Mine's at 333.3MHz (what's up with all the 3s?).

 

[Pako]

Well, when I have it cranked up, it loaded into Vista so fast, the little blue MS Vista ball doesn't even have a chance to load before windows. All apps are pretty much instant. I've been having the hardest time getting it stable past 4.3 ghz (on a rated 3.2ghz chip). 4.2 is not an issue, 4.3 gets rocky, 4.4 is impossible. I might just have to be happy with a solid 4.2ghz with my ram running at 1850-2000 mhz. Hard Drives in Raid0, it's a screamer.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Well, when I have it cranked up, it loaded into Vista so fast, the little blue MS Vista ball doesn't even have a chance to load before windows. All apps are pretty much instant. I've been having the hardest time getting it stable past 4.3 ghz (on a rated 3.2ghz chip). 4.2 is not an issue, 4.3 gets rocky, 4.4 is impossible. I might just have to be happy with a solid 4.2ghz with my ram running at 1850-2000 mhz. Hard Drives in Raid0, it's a screamer.

I've read how some people have it stable at near 5MHz and even past that! I don't see why you cannot go any higher than 4.2. I'm sure you'll get there after some tweaking.

It's seems the 'average' increase for i7 overclocking is 1.2MHz, on any of the chips, which I think is amazing.

Soon, very soon I'll get my rig. I just hope I don't have any problems assembling it. Never did it before.

What's the best website to get beginner help with PC assembly? I've been looking on YT for most stuff, but I want to know if you got something better.

EDIT: My CPU fan has been going off all day long and been acting up for several days, now. CPU temp is at 57.5 - 60 degrees at idle! Too hot. Something is wrong.

 

[opendriver]

Im thinking you should sell you 965 and go for a 975 once they come out, maybe then you will be able to achieve 4.4, or maybe even higher.

As long as you can get 4Ghz with HT enabled, I think you should be just fine

I have to say, I do feel somewhat responsible for this...

 

[Pako]

I've read how some people have it stable at near 5MHz and even past that! I don't see why you cannot go any higher than 4.2. I'm sure you'll get there after some tweaking.

It's seems the 'average' increase for i7 overclocking is 1.2MHz, on any of the chips, which I think is amazing.

Soon, very soon I'll get my rig. I just hope I don't have any problems assembling it. Never did it before.

What's the best website to get beginner help with PC assembly? I've been looking on YT for most stuff, but I want to know if you got something better.

EDIT: My CPU fan has been going off all day long and been acting up for several days, now. CPU temp is at 57.5 - 60 degrees at idle! Too hot. Something is wrong.

Old CPU cooler? Is the heatsink caked with dust? Need a good cleaning? If it's an other setup, pulling the cooler off, cleaning the CPU and Cooler and re-applying the thermo paste can make a huge difference. Over time the past can get chaulky and will not be as effective.

opendriver shared a site, extremeoverclocking.com, that lead me in the right direction as far as water cooling goes and have found alot of other great info there as well. On a new install, it's almost impossible to screw things up on a build. Common sense can go a looooong way and with your electronics background (didn't you make your own crossovers, electrostatic speakers, ect...) you'll be fine.

Im thinking you should sell you 965 and go for a 975 once they come out, maybe then you will be able to achieve 4.4, or maybe even higher.

As long as you can get 4Ghz with HT enabled, I think you should be just fine

I have to say, I do feel somewhat responsible for this...

It is your fault and I'm sending you the bill.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Old CPU cooler?

Got one of those; check. However, it hits the RPMs just fine, which are 2,000 idle and 4400 on the only other speed. 4400 RPM activates at 65 degrees Celsius. That makes me think there's nothing wrong with it.

Is the heatsink caked with dust? Need a good cleaning?

Most likely, since our house a dust magnet. I figured the CPU fan would blow most of the crud away. I bet that's my biggest problem. I better check. What's the best way to clean it?

If it's an other setup, pulling the cooler off, cleaning the CPU and Cooler and re-applying the thermo paste can make a huge difference. Over time the past can get chaulky and will not be as effective

Never read that before. Great info! This could be the cause, too. The PC is 5 years old and the fan has never been removed. My PC is on nearly 24 hours a day, if not exactly that. After a few years, I guess it's time for a repasting.

opendriver shared a site, extremeoverclocking.com, that lead me in the right direction as far as water cooling goes and have found alot of other great info there as well. On a new install, it's almost impossible to screw things up on a build. Common sense can go a looooong way and with your electronics background (didn't you make your own crossovers, electrostatic speakers, ect...) you'll be fine.

Yeah, but mounting speaker drivers and designing and building crossovers is super easy. Plus, the components are small and not to costly and really connect together real easy. PC components seem a lot more difficult.

I did update my RAM, once. Super easy, but I freaked out at how hard I needed to push on them to get them to fit. I was really afraid I was going to break them. That's what has me worried the most. And, not putting the component power connector in the right spot and bending something that'll make the entire build FUBAR.

Also, I didn't mentioned before, but my ACPI Thermal Zone, whatever that is, is always 5 to 7 degrees higher than my CPU. And the only 'chassis' fan I have stays at 800 RPM.

 

[nick09]

You clean the computer with compressed air. Just make sure you touch a non-painted piece of metal before you clean so you won't fry any hardware.

I have some information you can download about tools and hardware here. It will provide all the information about cleaning computers.

 

[Pako]

Yeah, the heat sinks fins collect dust like no other. Eventually there is little to no surface area left to cool by the air because it's covered in dust, thus reducing the effectiveness of the heat sink.

Compressed air in a can works pretty good. If you have a actual air compressor, be sure not to blow any capacitors off of the board (from experience). Deflect the direct air with your hand to collect any water in the line as well as to reduce the pressure of industrial compressors. If it's really bad, I would use a vacuum in conjunction with the compressor.

Any surface area is fine for blowing out, don't directly blow inside your optical or floppy drives. Feel free to blow out your power supply, it will be filled with dust!

I know what you mean about being nervous about the delicate connections. It's good to be cautious, especially with expensive components. What's worse is when you have done everything right but you have a bad mother board (or ram, or cpu, or power supply, ect....), immediately you blame yourself. Luckily as long as you didn't "brake" the component, most online companies (newegg for example) are pretty good about giving you an RMA and replacing the bad component. Most motherboards these days can be left to "Auto" settings and everything will be setup correctly for stock builds. The days of manually having to set everything up are gone. It's nice.

There are some knowledgeable people on this board that I'm sure will be more than willing to help your build. The main advise I have is make sure you are discharged so static electricity doesn't short something out. Keep magnetic screwdrivers away from rom/bios chips on the motherboard or graphics cards. Be patient and take your time. It is really hard to screw up, honestly.

Here are some basic steps in a computer build:

• Install standoff screws in case to match motherboard mounting holes.
• Install motherboard input back plate into case. This is the stamped out insert that surrounds all of your USB, keyboard/mouse/internet type of connections.
• Install motherboard, sliding connections into back plate first, screw down to standoff screws.
• Install CPU, refer to motherboard manual for complete instructions. It's pretty self explanatory, but you don't want to screw this up.
• Install CPU heat sink. Refer to CPU instructions, or aftermarket cooler instructions. (Note: Some aftermarket coolers require mounts on the back of the motherboard. If you are going to use aftermarket CPU cooling, check the instructions before you mount your motherboard. You may have to install some "stuff" the board before mounting in the case.)
• (The Following Steps can be in any order really.)Install PSU if not already mounted in the case. Hook up your 24-pin motherboard main power lead and your 4pin 12v CPU power lead. You can't screw this up, it's as easy as replacing a light bulb.
• Install/Mount optical and hard drives into the case.
• Connect USB, Power/Reset Switch/Audio/Firewire/SATA headers to motherboard. The cables will be marked and refer to the motherboard manual for pin assignment on the motherboard. ASUS uses a header plug that makes installing these really nice. They seem to include this little header pin block with all the boards now.
• Take a glance at all the jumper's configurations on the motherboard to make sure they are all in default position. I have had motherboards in the past come with a jumper in a diagnostics position. I wasted hours of my life trying to figure out why the motherboard wouldn't post.
• Hook up the rest of your power leads and SATA (or IDE) cables to your drives.
• Install Ram. Refer to your motherboard manual on which dims to fill up first for dual-channel. Some board require ram to be installed in dimms 1 and 3 first while others require 2 and 4 to be filled first, assuming you have 4 dimm slots.
• Take one more look over and plug it in. If you did everything right and if all components are in good working order it should boot. Immediately go into bios and make sure your CD-Rom is set as the first boot device so you can install your operating system. Take a look and become familiar with the bios and adjust any other parameters you need (are you configuring a RAID array for example?

This is a down and dirty grocery list of procedures for a new build. I have over simplified a lot of the steps, but your motherboard manual will become your best friend.

Motherboard manufacturers I would suggest would be Intel (rock solid, minor tweakability), ASUS (Great features, lacking customer support), and EVGA (easily becoming a leader in product and customer support).

Start a build log thread and lets get going on it.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Good list Pako. I've been noting that mainboards tend to colour the RAM channels now to guide you. Also, on my last build, I connected all the motherboard-to-case wires before installing any other componentry, but that's really a personal preference.

I'm planning a monster build soon, but it's not your normal Crysis-mutha build. I'll be posting up a thread about it in the next couple of days.

 

[Pako]

Good list Pako. I've been noting that mainboards tend to colour the RAM channels now to guide you. Also, on my last build, I connected all the motherboard-to-case wires before installing any other componentry, but that's really a personal preference.

I'm planning a monster build soon, but it's not your normal Crysis-mutha build. I'll be posting up a thread about it in the next couple of days.

Feel free to offer advise to the list on anything I missed.

Can't wait to see your build. Dual Xeon FTW?

 

[TB]

Six 1.5TB (not me) drives?

 

[opendriver]

A general rule of thumb when installing computer parts:


*Things are only meant to go in one way, dont for it to hard, or else things will break

*Always ground yourself with an ESD bracelet when installing hardware (over 3000 volts can build up before you feel anything, and once you touch a motherboard or anything else sensitive, you just fried it.

Ive also found it much easier to install the CPU/ heatsink and fan and the memory before you put the motherboard into the case, so you not flexing the motherboard when trying to install the memory and CPU.

 

[Pako]

Great suggestions. I might also suggest that you use a workbench/table. Working on the floor under a desk building a machine sucks.

 

[Solid Lifters]

A general rule of thumb when installing computer parts:


*Things are only meant to go in one way, dont for it to hard, or else things will break

Yeah, I can understand that. But, like I mentioned with the RAM upgrade, I was shocked at how much pressure I needed to install it. The motherboard was flexing down quite a bit and I was very nervous. I was waiting to hear a *SNAP* at any second.

*Always ground yourself with an ESD bracelet when installing hardware (over 3000 volts can build up before you feel anything, and once you touch a motherboard or anything else sensitive, you just fried it.

Actually, I wasn't going to really bother with that, but I guess you just changed my mind. I'm not much of a staticy guy. Plus, I''ve seen a lot of PC build videos on YT and almost none have the strap on their wrist. But, that's no excuse to follow.

Ive also found it much easier to install the CPU/ heatsink and fan and the memory before you put the motherboard into the case, so you not flexing the motherboard when trying to install the memory and CPU.

That's how I was going to do it. Nice flat surface to prevent the MB from flexing. I've seen this done in YT videos.

Great suggestions. I might also suggest that you use a workbench/table. Working on the floor under a desk building a machine sucks.

I have a bench for electronics assemble (too small for PC building) and a bench for gunsmithing, plus a 'general' desk for the usual letters, pads, pens, etc. I should have no problem with picking a work area. Problem with the gunsmithing bench is it's made of wood that has a lot of solvents and oils soaked in it, so I hope that's not a problem with the MB. I do plan to lay down some construction paper, which I usually do when using solvents and oils, but a little has leached out onto the wood. I don't see this as much a problem. One layer of construction paper should be shield enough from the bench surface.

 

[Pako]

Should be for sure.

As far as the Ram DIMMs go, I have had difficult/tight fits and looser fits. I have found to have better luck to put in one end and close the clip then follow up with pressure on the other end. In other words, clip in one side at a time instead of trying to get both ends to clip at once. I've never used a bracelet before and have talked with many installers that don't either, but that's not to say it won't save a mother board from getting zapped. Their cheap, and might be worth it.

 

[Pako]

A little victory for myself, I finally hit a 4.4ghz overclock on my i7. I have been trying since day one to no success of my own. For some reason it's rockin now. YAAAY!

 

[Solid Lifters]

A little victory for myself, I finally hit a 4.4ghz overclock on my i7. I have been trying since day one to no success of my own. For some reason it's rockin now. YAAAY!

Niiiiiiccccceee! 👍

I bet now that your parts are 'broken in' I bet you can inch to 4.5MHz.

Amazing, 27 multiplier?

I plan to use 17 CPU multiplier, and Bus Speed to 223 and a RAM setting of 2:10 which should overclock my RAM by 10% or so.

 

[Pako]

What's cool about the Extreme Edition chips is that the multiplyers are completely unlocked. I've tried all the way up to 41 multipliers to find the best stability. So far, this 27x164 is the max for me at a 2:8 ram ratio.

 

[Solid Lifters]

What's cool about the Extreme Edition chips is that the multiplyers are completely unlocked. I've tried all the way up to 41 multipliers to find the best stability. So far, this 27x164 is the max for me at a 2:8 ram ratio.

Obviously I haven't tried mine, but that's where I want to get to with my system.

I think all I need to do is use the OC program that comes with my MB. I don't think I have to go into the BIOS at all. But, I'll wait until I get my PC running first, and then ask you what I need to do next.

I've got 'Flashing the BIOS' to study up on, since I have zero idea what that means.

 

[Pako]

I've found mixed results using the software vs. bios. In some cases I found more stability adjusting in the bios vs. the software, but for a quick bump, the software is nice.

Flashing the bios is just updating the Bios Rom chip. This can be updated several ways and most motherboard mfg's offer a windows based option for updating (flashing) your bios.

 

[Solid Lifters]

I've found mixed results using the software vs. bios. In some cases I found more stability adjusting in the bios vs. the software, but for a quick bump, the software is nice.

Flashing the bios is just updating the Bios Rom chip. This can be updated several ways and most motherboard mfg's offer a windows based option for updating (flashing) your bios.

I tried reading up on it, and read a part where somebody had problems with the 'Windows' flash, and it should be avoided.

So, flashing the BIOS is different from updating 'drivers?'

 

[Pako]

That's true, not a sure way to update your bios. I haven't had any issues with it, but it is possible. With the windows based updates, you can export your current bios for archiving which I always do. It will also 'verify' the install of the bios. If this goes bad, load your backed up bios and try again, or wait for the next bios update. The cool thing about this Rampage II board is it actually has 2 bios' to choose from. Not only can I switch between different versions for benching/performance reasons, but if bios 1 gets hosed, I can always load up bios 2. The only time I've seen bios updates fail is when the Rom chip is defective. Most can be easily replaced by pulling out the old, and putting in the new as supplied by the MFG.

You can also flash your bios from a thumb drive, or floppy also.

 

[Solid Lifters]

That's true, not a sure way to update your bios. I haven't had any issues with it, but it is possible. With the windows based updates, you can export your current bios for archiving which I always do. It will also 'verify' the install of the bios. If this goes bad, load your backed up bios and try again, or wait for the next bios update. The cool thing about this Rampage II board is it actually has 2 bios' to choose from. Not only can I switch between different versions for benching/performance reasons, but if bios 1 gets hosed, I can always load up bios 2. The only time I've seen bios updates fail is when the Rom chip is defective. Most can be easily replaced by pulling out the old, and putting in the new as supplied by the MFG.

You can also flash your bios from a thumb drive, or floppy also.

Sounds great. Thanks for the info!

I like the idea of backing up your BIOS. I never thought I could do that.

I also can back up my Registry, which I never did with this PC. Since it appears I have reg errors, I cannot roll back to my previous reg. If I backed up my reg from the start of using my PC, I probably wouldn't have so many problems.

Is there anything else I should or must backup with my new PC when I get it?

 

[Pako]

Not sure how much overclocking you are planning to do, but during the process you will get multiple lockups and BSOD while you find your sweet spot for your rig. Every time you get a hard lock or BSOD your OS install begins to degrade. To combat this issue of having to reload your OS, I have been using Norton's Ghost for full partition backups onto a secondary drive. I use it to also backup MyDocs. as well. I install my os and pertinent programs then create a backup drive image using Ghost. That way, after a couple BSOD, I can easily restore my install in about 10 minutes and I have a clean, fresh install of the OS and my programs. Each additional program I install, I restore the clean image first, install the new image, then create a new drive image. This insures a clean OS always. If things ever get mucked up, I can always restore a clean image file. Works better than M$ System Restore in my opinion as it's on my terms and I can decide when and where I backup, not M$.

 

[Pako]

Wow, seems unreal that almost three years ago to the month I was posting how this machine was the end all to all machines. Well, what can I say...I have gotten some great mileage out of it. I went through a phase of three monitors for surround gaming. Decided to dump one of the samsung (1920x1080) monitors for a Dell 27" that was 2540x1440 resolutions going back to a single screen, high res gaming environment. It's just easier on the brain strain. Other upgrades include a couple 80gb SSD's and my most recent upgrade was dumping the three GTX280 Hydros and went with x2 GTX590 Dual GPU Hydro Classifieds from EVGA for some Quad SLI gaming. Still water cooling (hence the reference to Hydro).

What can I say, things are chirping along nicely. Still at a solid 4ghz on my 965 i7 with my 6gb's of ram at 1865mhz triple channel. I looked at my options for CPU upgrades, but unless I want to swap out the motherboard, there is really nothing that makes sense for the cost. I honestly feel I can get another 3 years out of this machine in it's current state. By then, my core components will be 6 years old and I will really be ready for a new system build. Battlefield 3 at 2544x1440 resolution with everything maxed on ultra quality and I am averaging 130 FPS. That gives me a bit of headroom to handle what else will be coming out in the next few years I think.

An interesting Computer build path at the moment are the z68 boards that allow a SSD to act as the cache of a regular platter drive. Intel even makes a special 20gb model that is specifically designed for the purpose. So the performance of solid state and storage capacity of these 2TB drives is appealing. I built one for my brother recently with a 2600k chip and a single GTX570 and it's quit impressive for the build.

I'm not sure what my next build will be, but with these types of innovations coming out, the gaming industry better step it up because the hardware will be eating their lunch and asking if that is all they can throw at them.



Dell U2711

EVGA GTX590 Classified (product page removed, odd....)

 

[nick09]

I would honestly stay with the current build until it really gets to the point that you want to upgrade and new parts will be out there when you want to upgrade(130fps with BF3 on a resolution larger than 1080HD sounds like a reason why you will be using it for quite a while!).