Handling oversteer on the RWD cars

[FKAustria1911]

Hi guys,

I am asking for help regarding oversteer on RWD cars. Are there any tips & tricks, videos you can recommend, anything that could help...?

My issue is that first of all I don't have much experience with RWD cars, neither in real life, not in GT Sport.
I have improved quite a bit in the last few weeks when it comes to preventing oversteer from happening in the first place, but it still happens, and I guess it happens for everyone.
So my issue is not so much that it does happen (any tips to prevent it aside from not going on the throttle too hard too early when the steering angle is too big yet would still be appreciated)...
...but what to do when it happens, because basically I am CLUELESS!

So when it happens apparently I try to countersteer. Sometimes it works, but more often it doesn't, and so far it seems to me it is more luck then strategy behind it. Most of the time either I can't intercept it (too late?), or do it "too strong" (and fly off the track on the countersteering side), or (and this pisses me off the most) it oversteers, then swings in the other direction, I counter again, and it swings back in the original direction, and then I swing around like a pendulum 2-3 times and then instead of gaining traction i finally fly off the track....

So seriously... what do I do....? Especially with the throttle. Yesterday I checked a few videos on Youtube and basically in 3 videos I had 3 different instructions regarding the throttle - lift the throttle, stay on the throttle, push the throttle, squeeze the throttle.... what the hell should I do with the throttle when it happens?

...and what with the wheel? do only a tine countersteer but for a longer time, or a bigger one for a shorter time? Do I steer back into the curve when the car faces the apex again, or earlier to allow for reaction time... and is there any hope when I am too late or can I just forget it then anyway?

Is it mostly a matter of reacting quickly enough or more one of the technique? Because if it is 95% catching it in time I fear I am lost and will never learn it because apparently then I am too old and slow...

PS: one more thing, I am not sure whether this is due to my way of driving or this is the same for everyone, but I encounter the oversteer way less often in the MR cars than in the FR cars. I have an easier time handling even the Gr. 3 458 than the M6. The M4 Gr. 4 and the M6 Gr. 3 are basically undriveable for me. The 458 Gr. 4 as well as the McLare and the Cayman I can handle rather easily, also the Porsche and the RCZ in Gr. 3 are easier for me to handle in Gr. 3. When I did test runs on Dragon Trail with BoP on and default settings I was able to do 1:39:00 times with all cars I tried (Vantage, RCZ, Italia, even the M6), only in the Porsche I was able to do 1:38 (and rather easily too compared to the other cars, for the RCZ I needed 20+ laps to do a 1:39.200, with the Porsche I guess with more training I could also go to 1:37). So you also know a bit about my skill level with the Gr. 3 cars... everything without any assists of course.

 

[Robben]

You set a top 10 time in the Supra on Tokyo... you need no help

 

[Miguelinho]

It's really hard to judge what a car is doing just from a steering wheel/controller and a TV screen. Personally, I tend to rely on visual judgement, if the track isn't as 'in front' of me as I'd like it hints towards oversteer (or I've steered too much lol). I've played racing games so much it's become second natural and I just know when the car is over steering, and it's really difficult to explain the process. Every driver still spins out every now and then, including me. It all comes down to experience and learning a car's behaviour.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

It is hard to recognize overseer in GTS, you usually don't feel it in the wheel until late. I have had to teach myself to look for it visually and anticipate it. The obvious is to prevent it, of course.

I think so many people use CSA for this very reason. Sometimes I don't feel it until it is too late.

 

[FKAustria1911]

You set a top 10 time in the Supra on Tokyo... you need no help

haha well that was because I was able to prevent the oversteer from happening in the Supra
Also I guess if the top drivers weren't too busy racing Gr. 3 and Gr. 4 I wouldn't have been close to the top 10 list.

But you are right, with a slower car with road tyres it seems I am able to catch it more often. But in the M4 Gr. 4 for example it's like the lottery whether I will catch it (and the chances not being much higher than in the lottery either ).

 

[Stotty]

Hi guys,

I am asking for help regarding oversteer on RWD cars. Are there any tips & tricks, videos you can recommend, anything that could help...?

My issue is that first of all I don't have much experience with RWD cars, neither in real life, not in GT Sport.
I have improved quite a bit in the last few weeks when it comes to preventing oversteer from happening in the first place, but it still happens, and I guess it happens for everyone.
So my issue is not so much that it does happen (any tips to prevent it aside from not going on the throttle too hard too early when the steering angle is too big yet would still be appreciated)...
...but what to do when it happens, because basically I am CLUELESS!

So when it happens apparently I try to countersteer. Sometimes it works, but more often it doesn't, and so far it seems to me it is more luck then strategy behind it. Most of the time either I can't intercept it (too late?), or do it "too strong" (and fly off the track on the countersteering side), or (and this pisses me off the most) it oversteers, then swings in the other direction, I counter again, and it swings back in the original direction, and then I swing around like a pendulum 2-3 times and then instead of gaining traction i finally fly off the track....

So seriously... what do I do....? Especially with the throttle. Yesterday I checked a few videos on Youtube and basically in 3 videos I had 3 different instructions regarding the throttle - lift the throttle, stay on the throttle, push the throttle, squeeze the throttle.... what the hell should I do with the throttle when it happens?

...and what with the wheel? do only a tine countersteer but for a longer time, or a bigger one for a shorter time? Do I steer back into the curve when the car faces the apex again, or earlier to allow for reaction time... and is there any hope when I am too late or can I just forget it then anyway?

Is it mostly a matter of reacting quickly enough or more one of the technique? Because if it is 95% catching it in time I fear I am lost and will never learn it because apparently then I am too old and slow...

PS: one more thing, I am not sure whether this is due to my way of driving or this is the same for everyone, but I encounter the oversteer way less often in the MR cars than in the FR cars. I have an easier time handling even the Gr. 3 458 than the M6. The M4 Gr. 4 and the M6 Gr. 3 are basically undriveable for me. The 458 Gr. 4 as well as the McLare and the Cayman I can handle rather easily, also the Porsche and the RCZ in Gr. 3 are easier for me to handle in Gr. 3. When I did test runs on Dragon Trail with BoP on and default settings I was able to do 1:39:00 times with all cars I tried (Vantage, RCZ, Italia, even the M6), only in the Porsche I was able to do 1:38 (and rather easily too compared to the other cars, for the RCZ I needed 20+ laps to do a 1:39.200, with the Porsche I guess with more training I could also go to 1:37). So you also know a bit about my skill level with the Gr. 3 cars... everything without any assists of course.

You need to begin by understanding what causes throttle induced oversteer.

In simple terms, the more steering angle you have applied when you get on the throttle, the less throttle you can apply.

This guides how you subsequently manage the situation…

If you’ve got minimal steering angle applied, and you’re in a low gear, close to the rev limit, most of the time you can just ride it out – ie; stay fully on the gas and just wind the lock off, or apply a small amount of counter steer.

If you have more steering angle, and/or you’re in the meat of the torque curve, keeping your foot in will just cause you to spin. So as soon as you feel the rear coming around you need to immediately reduce the throttle input AND the steering angle. This doesn’t mean shutting off the gas suddenly/completely and winding on armfuls of opposite lock… this will most likely make the car snap back in the other direction. You need to ease the gas and reduce the steering angle together.

Mid engine cars will generally have more rear traction than front engined cars as they have more weight over the rear wheels (which helps increase traction).

Best solution is to not cause the oversteer in the 1st place – the easiest way to do this is not to push the front in to understeer on the way in to corners. When you do this, your natural reaction is to apply more lock to make the apex, which means you’re far more susceptible to losing the rear when you get back on the throttle.

 

[zzz_pt]

It is hard to recognize overseer in GTS, you usually don't feel it in the wheel until late. I have had to teach myself to look for it visually and anticipate it. The obvious is to prevent it, of course.

I think so many people use CSA for this very reason. Sometimes I don't feel it until it is too late.

Exactly why I use CSA lately. I gave up trying to drive like I do in PC2 / AC / previouss GTs because the feedback from the tires, on the limit, is a joke.

I'll still drive without CSA though, but I don't like to fight and predict a lacking tire model when I just want to have fun.

And RWD and MR were (and still are) the cars I drive almost exclusively, mostly because I love the corner exit feeling of slight oversteer - with smooth throttle control - and using it to get faster on the throttle.

Tbh, I tried several different things to avoid the weird snap oversteer in this game but I wasn't having fun doing something unnatural. You should feel what the car is doing at all moments and in GT you, or rather I, can't. Visual clues and tire sounds are not enough if GTS aims to be a realistic e-sports.

/rant

 

[JacksHerer]

If you haven't already done the million points drift king trophy, head over to it with a rwd road car and have fun getting a car out of shape, you will quickly adapt to knowing the instant it is oversteering.
If you wait to be in trouble oversteering, you will find it hard to 'catch' it.
Getting use to a car is the only way you can 'catch' it with the right amount of throttle/brake/steering input and come out of the oversteer smoothly like a pro.

 

[FKAustria1911]

Thanks a lot guys for your responses, this is helpful!

What would be the best track and car to test drifting/catching the oversteer?
Suzuka short version maybe?
And what car to use? The M4 Gr. 4 or should I try with an easier one first?

I tend to have the problem more out of slower turns, like e.g. yesterday Big Willow Gr. 4 the biggest problem I had out of the uphill tight left that gets tighter, I had as good as no chance catching it, even when I was being pretty careful with the throttle (that was with with the Toyota 86). Also on the right downhill shortly after that, this one I was able to catch more often however (pretty easy as the one uphill I caught pretty much ZERO times...).

 

[Stotty]

Thanks a lot guys for your responses, this is helpful!

What would be the best track and car to test drifting/catching the oversteer?
Suzuka short version maybe?
And what car to use? The M4 Gr. 4 or should I try with an easier one first?

I tend to have the problem more out of slower turns, like e.g. yesterday Big Willow Gr. 4 the biggest problem I had out of the uphill tight left that gets tighter, I had as good as no chance catching it, even when I was being pretty careful with the throttle (that was with with the Toyota 86). Also on the right downhill shortly after that, this one I was able to catch more often however (pretty easy as the one uphill I caught pretty much ZERO times...).

I use Suzuka for testing... for you, I'd use the longer version as you need to manage the throttle out of the hairpin and chicane.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

Exactly why I use CSA lately. I gave up trying to drive like I do in PC2 / AC / previouss GTs because the feedback from the tires, on the limit, is a joke.

I'll still drive without CSA though, but I don't like to fight and predict a lacking tire model when I just want to have fun.

And RWD and MR were (and still are) the cars I drive almost exclusively, mostly because I love the corner exit feeling of slight oversteer - with smooth throttle control - and using it to get faster on the throttle.

Tbh, I tried several different things to avoid the weird snap oversteer in this game but I wasn't having fun doing something unnatural. You should feel what the car is doing at all moments and in GT you, or rather I, can't. Visual clues and tire sounds are not enough if GTS aims to be a realistic e-sports.

/rant

I agree. The feeling just isn't there, mainly in Gr3. I run with only ABS in everything but Gr3. I practice and qualify with only ABS on Gr3 too. But, in race I use TC. It slows me down, but prevents the snap oversteer. Maybe I should use CSA instead.

The oversteer is really strange. It starts out so slight and sudden that you can barely see it. Then BAM, it snaps around. It is better than it was, in the sense it doesn't snap as quick as it used to. By the time you feel it, you are sideways.

Edit: I have used CSA a few times in races on weak. I don't recall the icon ever flashing.

I have been doing the WRS TTs the last couple of weeks. No CSA allowed. The track time has really helped me with throttle control

 

[BSDShoes]

I agree. The feeling just isn't there, mainly in Gr3. I run with only ABS in everything but Gr3. I practice and qualify with only ABS on Gr3 too. But, in race I use TC. It slows me down, but prevents the snap oversteer. Maybe I should use CSA instead.

You and almost everyone else in this game regarding Gr3. TCS on 1 or 2 doesn't necessarily slow you down.

I can visually feel oversteer when it happens, just need to know what to look for to happen- that usually means you're applying too much throttle.

I've toyed with CSA, for me CSA doesn't do squat with FR cars, but I feel CSA makes MR cars behave like FR cars.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

You and almost everyone else in this game regarding Gr3. TCS on 1 or 2 doesn't necessarily slow you down.

I can visually feel oversteer when it happens, just need to know what to look for to happen- that usually means you're applying too much throttle.

I've toyed with CSA, for me CSA doesn't do squat with FR cars, but I feel CSA makes MR cars behave like MR cars.

I really wish they would work on the FFB so we can feel the oversteer. If I am running TTs or qualifying/ practice, it is easy to be looking for it. In a race, when you are battling for position, it is hard to see it sometimes

 

[Stotty]

Personally, I find CSA much more effective than traction control... for me, traction control kills exit speed, whereas CSA just sits there as a safety net against unexpected oversteer on kerbs.

Last time I tried it, TC below 2 was a waste of time, and TC above 2 completely destroyed exit speed.

But as I've said in the past, if you're DRB or below, I'd be using both TC and CSA... anything that stops you having accidents on your own is a good thing and will make you faster - maybe not over 1 corner, but over a full race distance.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

Personally, I find CSA much more effective than traction control... for me, traction control kills exit speed, whereas CSA just sits there as a safety net against unexpected oversteer on kerbs.

Last time I tried it, TC below 2 was a waste of time, and TC above 2 completely destroyed exit speed.

But as I've said in the past, if you're DRB or below, I'd be using both TC and CSA... anything that stops you having accidents on your own is a good thing and will make you faster - maybe not over 1 corner, but over a full race distance.

I am a DR A and want to get better. That is why I really don't want to use anything but ABS.

For those looking to get better. I highly recommend trying the WRS TTs out. Set car, track, and limited settings. Just you hot lapping. Competing on times alone. Do what I did, use MT and turn everything off but ABS. I have learned quite a bit in just 2 weeks. I thought I had it all down pretty good until I signed up.

 

[Sean Renon]

Personally, I find CSA much more effective than traction control... for me, traction control kills exit speed, whereas CSA just sits there as a safety net against unexpected oversteer on kerbs.

Last time I tried it, TC below 2 was a waste of time, and TC above 2 completely destroyed exit speed.

But as I've said in the past, if you're DRB or below, I'd be using both TC and CSA... anything that stops you having accidents on your own is a good thing and will make you faster - maybe not over 1 corner, but over a full race distance.

This x1000
CSA works way better than TCS, I don't use any assists anymore (other than ABS) because my own tournament interests prevent them (so does SNAIL), so I'm used to it.
However, the other day I turned CSA on weak again for a daily GR.3 race and I could be SO much more aggressive with the throttle on corner exits and through tricky sections of track where normally I have to respect the fact that I might spin out.

 

[novcze]

nah, no need to use CSA, just mind your steering wheel position when you are about to floor it, wheels almost straight and you can go full throttle

you can see it in one video I did when I was starting to drive without TCS

 

[BSDShoes]

nah, no need to use CSA, just mind your steering wheel position when you are about to floor it, wheels almost straight and you can go full throttle

you can see it in one video I did when I was starting to drive without TCS

That's how I do it, as soon as I know I can straighten my wheels out coming out of the corner, it's pedal to the metal. Even when I'm in the middle of a turn I can momentarily straighten tires out and gas up and then start turning again.

 

[FKAustria1911]

Right there at 48 seconds into the video, I would have flown off the track for sure, the only question would have been whether flying off to the right or to the left side

One thing I didn't mention before: I guess the cockpit view helps with this? As so far I have resisted the cockpit view. I know it's supposed to be the most realistic view and so on, but I refuse to having an 78" TV here and then having a 32" view on the track with the rest wasted on the cockpit. It's not like when I'm driving a real car that I have 2/3 of the view to the road blocked by some interior stuff...
I really hope VR makes good progress and we're getting headsets with significantly higher resolution soon (won't help on the PS4 tho, we'd need some "Super Pro" model with 10x more power for a 4k headset I guess).

 

[Stotty]

nah, no need to use CSA, just mind your steering wheel position when you are about to floor it, wheels almost straight and you can go full throttle

you can see it in one video I did when I was starting to drive without TCS

With all due respect, I’m running lap times 1.5-2 seconds faster than you are on that combo

Right there at 48 seconds into the video, I would have flown off the track for sure, the only question would have been whether flying off to the right or to the left side

One thing I didn't mention before: I guess the cockpit view helps with this? As so far I have resisted the cockpit view. I know it's supposed to be the most realistic view and so on, but I refuse to having an 78" TV here and then having a 32" view on the track with the rest wasted on the cockpit. It's not like when I'm driving a real car that I have 2/3 of the view to the road blocked by some interior stuff...
I really hope VR makes good progress and we're getting headsets with significantly higher resolution soon (won't help on the PS4 tho, we'd need some "Super Pro" model with 10x more power for a 4k headset I guess).

I would always use bumper cam. I think it gives by far the best feel for what the car is doing.

 

[nuu1212]

The low-speed grip is just plain wrong. For two independent reasons, it seems:

1. As soon as one rear wheel has less weight on it, the physics becomes strange. There are certain spots on the tracks where this becomes obvious. One is the willow uphill left. Another is the final chicane at Suzuka. You can also check this problem by going over some higher curbs at different angles, not while racing, just to test the balance of the car. It will spin at 1/3 throttle and very low speeds. No real car can be this unstable. Maybe this also has to do with a badly simulated differential transmission and or hard suspensions (i.e. Gr3 and Gr4). The real-world tire also does a lot of 'suspension work', this seems to be missing from the model.

2. As soon as the grip is gone, it is completely gone. Like driving on ice. You can easily test this by doing some donuts on a flat part. Even with reduced throttle at 1/3 the thing keeps spinning, even going backwards.

If I had the time, I would make a video about this - sometimes ridiculous - behavior.

To answer the original question: You just have to know the parts of the track where this tracktion loss happens at low speeds. You have no chance of countering this. So just wait with the throttle at these spots. At medium to higher speeds and/or lower powered cars you can do it, as proven. Release throttle and countersteer carefully.

 

[nuu1212]

nah, no need to use CSA

You have CSA built into your brain, as the video clearly proves...
I do not (only) see wheels straight and flat out, I see some impressive millisecond countersteers.

 

[Veinz]

Being relatively new to the wheel, this has also been my struggle while trying to learn to drive gr3 cars with no TC in the race c lobbies. I almost always make an error during the race and lose positions, it's especially frustrating with the super high tire wear rates we have. I don't use CSA either btw.

 

[IAMDOODLEBUG]

nah, no need to use CSA, just mind your steering wheel position when you are about to floor it, wheels almost straight and you can go full throttle

you can see it in one video I did when I was starting to drive without TCS

I see I make an appearance in 7th

 

[Stotty]

Being relatively new to the wheel, this has also been my struggle while trying to learn to drive gr3 cars with no TC in the race c lobbies. I almost always make an error during the race and lose positions, it's especially frustrating with the super high tire wear rates we have. I don't use CSA either btw.

By your own admission, you make mistakes (on your own) that affect your race significantly. So why do you avoid using aids that are there to help you?

Simply switching on CSA will likely help you enormously.

 

[KingFrog]

From my few years of racing , Iv learned to let the wheel center itself , if you center it yourself you almost always risk over correcting . That being said I almost wrecked my RX-7 after installing a New idler arm , I let go of the wheel and it stayed in place since I hadn't broken the arm in yet . Good thing I was paying attention and corrected it

 

[Veinz]

By your own admission, you make mistakes (on your own) that affect your race significantly. So why do you avoid using aids that are there to help you?

Simply switching on CSA will likely help you enormously.

Still getting the hang of the wheel so I don't want learn to be dependent on it.

And to be honest I think of it as a cheese assist like what auto rotation is in the battlefield games. Would rather if it was gone completely but thats just me.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

I agree with @Stotty and @zzz_pt, nothing wrong with using aids. Whatever makes it more fun and makes you faster.

I raced with CSA today and no TC. I also raced with AT. My hand was hurting and I could not shift gears well. You can still spin with CSA and it does not make you faster. It just helps when you accelerate too hard. It helps, not put you on rails. I was still oversteering at times. I had fun tho and that is all that matters.

 

[tofuhero]

I dont want to be dependent on it.

And to be honest I think of it as a cheese assist like what auto rotation is in the battlefield games. Would rather if it was gone completely but thats just me.

I drive the Ferraris mostly, and the 458 Gr.3 is incredibly hard to handle with a DS4 and no assists. I imagine it's hard to handle for wheel users also, but it's harder to do quick, precise countersteers with a thumbstick. I use CSA weak on the Gr.3 and it settles down a spin-happy car into something that's still tough to drive, but manageable with cautious inputs and awareness of what the car is doing. I drive most races with CSA weak, TC 0, and only ABS on. Am I cheesing the game for that? That's your opinion maybe, but I don't think so. If you want to talk about cheese assists, try turning on ASM.

I find weak CSA a much better alternative than kicking up TC. TC can make the car more unpredictable in my experience and can unsettle the car more than having it off. The only time I really turn on TC in Gr.3 races is on a circuit with a lot of exits from slow turns where too much throttle means disaster.

 

[Veinz]

If people want to use it, that's fine and that's their own prerogative. Doesn't change my opinion that it's on the same level of "cheese" as an fps assist that acts like an aim bot.