Hardest settings, losing it under braking

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mopatop
  • 48 comments
  • 5,740 views
M

Mopatop

Messages
374
Hi all,

I'm playing GT5 on hardest settings - simulation everything, no assists - and I've got a real problem with losing the car under braking. I can't seem to brake for more than a hundred metres without the car spinning out. Is anyone else doing this, and have you got any tips? I've tried braking softly, but then I miss the apex. Strange thing is I've played Forza for the last few months on the same setting but not had anything like this issue.

(using a G27)

Thanks!
 
Mopatop
Hi all,

I'm playing GT5 on hardest settings - simulation everything, no assists - and I've got a real problem with losing the car under braking. I can't seem to brake for more than a hundred metres without the car spinning out. Is anyone else doing this, and have you got any tips? I've tried braking softly, but then I miss the apex. Strange thing is I've played Forza for the last few months on the same setting but not had anything like this issue.

(using a G27)

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Put the ABS up a little, it should stop the cars tires locking and so the braking should be more controlled, tweak it until you get the right setting, then slowly you will be able to lower the setting until its off completly.
 
Mopatop
Hi all,

I'm playing GT5 on hardest settings - simulation everything, no assists - and I've got a real problem with losing the car under braking. I can't seem to brake for more than a hundred metres without the car spinning out. Is anyone else doing this, and have you got any tips? I've tried braking softly, but then I miss the apex. Strange thing is I've played Forza for the last few months on the same setting but not had anything like this issue.

(using a G27)

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I guess the GT Physics are more correct so you need to break earlier. Also some cars have a very VERY thin line between perfect braking force and using to much ending in a spin.
Watch the Pedal Bar and notice how much you really brake. The game reads 100% braking when the G27 pedal is about 70% pushed in.
Example: My Golf is a Pain in the ass, the breaks are weak and the moment I hit more than 20% breaking power is spins. If you do more than a slight tap and hold, it will just fly off, and thats in a straight line. On the Audi R8 you can use up to 90% breaking power and if you overdo it you can catch it easy by releasing the pedal a little. Even when you corner you can use up to 50% without losing control.

"Always put ABS in 1" - was the rule in GT5 Prologue, that's GONE. Practise breaking :) See what feel of the pedal gives about what percentage of breaking power. When you near the perfect braking force you can hear little to no screeching from the tyres. If you overdo the braking you will hear it first, the screeching sound (tyres locking up) before losing control
 
Gumuz
Put the ABS up a little, it should stop the cars tires locking and so the braking should be more controlled, tweak it until you get the right setting, then slowly you will be able to lower the setting until its off completly.
Click to expand...

Not an option but thanks anyway!
 
aigners
The game reads 100% braking when the G27 pedal is about 70% pushed in.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your tips, I'll listen more to the tyres - really I'm just happy to know that it isn't like this for all cars!

Do you know how I can fix this pedal over-sensitivity?

Thanks!
 
Normal racing technique is "degressive braking".

Since the pressure will change during the breaking, transfer of pressure to the front and less speed, you are able to break hard in the beginning, but afterwards you need to let the break lose slowly.

You need to be certain too not to break hard when not straight.

By the way, I'm better at the theory as the practice too.
 
Mopatop
Thanks for your tips, I'll listen more to the tyres - really I'm just happy to know that it isn't like this for all cars!

Do you know how I can fix this pedal over-sensitivity?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Good question, if you find out let me know.
You really need good breaking control in Top Gear Challenge No.2. I just can't seem to break good enough ... hate the Elise R ... so twichy.
 
Vince_Fiero
Normal racing technique is "degressive braking".

Since the pressure will change during the breaking, transfer of pressure to the front and less speed, you are able to break hard in the beginning, but afterwards you need to let the break lose slowly.

You need to be certain too not to break hard when not straight.

By the way, I'm better at the theory as the practice too.
Click to expand...

That's very interesting because I find that in Forza I have to brake more through the big stops - I always put it down to the brakes losing efficiency as they heated through the stop. However, your theory matches with my experience - I always lose the car at the end, so I'll try letting off. I think in the meantime I'm just going to have to brake about 20 metres before the braking zone so I don't keep running off!
 
Mopatop
Hi all,

I'm playing GT5 on hardest settings - simulation everything, no assists - and I've got a real problem with losing the car under braking. I can't seem to brake for more than a hundred metres without the car spinning out. Is anyone else doing this, and have you got any tips? I've tried braking softly, but then I miss the apex. Strange thing is I've played Forza for the last few months on the same setting but not had anything like this issue.

(using a G27)

Thanks!
Click to expand...

ABS of course would help, also stiffening the front suspension, or softening the rear suspension will help with the loss of grip at the rear wheel under braking. You can also mess with the break balance to make sure its not just the rear you are locking up.
 
If your spinning out I would have a look at your brake balance aswell, you might have too much in the back...
 
put ABS on 1 and if that dont help. put abit more brake balance on the front
 
Appreciate what your saying about not wanting to use the ABS option but remember all cars (even race cars) have abs now so it's not like your cheating yourself.

I'm just wondering if you've done the Lotus Elise challange on the Top Gear test track yet. If you haven't and are struggling with some of the other cars then your in for a big suprise (spolier alert. highlight text to read) as the thing is impossible to contol. The slightest dab on the brakes and the nose just buries its self in and the tail is away. Likewise when on the throttle the back is just everywhere.
 
Brake hard at high speed and slowly decrease pedal pressure as your speed drops (Less aerodynamic grip).
Only brake in a straight line unless completely unavoidable (ideal racing line) <-- Most likely your problem
Change your brake bias (more front %)
Give me your GT5 copy

What?
 
To the OP... Whats your ABS setting?
 
Hi, this is my first post and I hope my English is good enough to understand, what I'm trying to say :)

I have exactly the same problem. I try to do the Top Gear Test Track with the Lotus since 3 hours but every time, I'm only on the 8th or 9th place at the end of the race...
The care spins and drifts so heavy...what techniques did you use to pass the test?

My only guess is, that driving with the pad is not the right choice for this test...
I will get my fanatec in december...so long I have to drive with the pad:indiff:
 
mk1junkie
Appreciate what your saying about not wanting to use the ABS option but remember all cars (even race cars) have abs now so it's not like your cheating yourself.

I'm just wondering if you've done the Lotus Elise challange on the Top Gear test track yet. If you haven't and are struggling with some of the other cars then your in for a big suprise (spolier alert. highlight text to read) as the thing is impossible to contol. The slightest dab on the brakes and the nose just buries its self in and the tail is away. Likewise when on the throttle the back is just everywhere.
Click to expand...

I have, it's a pig, coming back when I have more skills!
 
Anes
Brake hard at high speed and slowly decrease pedal pressure as your speed drops (Less aerodynamic grip).
Click to expand...

Not sure anything I'm racing is generating appreciable aero at the moment but thanks anyway!
 
Mopatop
Not sure anything I'm racing is generating appreciable aero at the moment but thanks anyway!
Click to expand...

Any car travelling over 120km/h will have at least some level of downward pressure as no engineer designs a car with lift but it's particularly noticeable in supercars of course.
 
Mopatop
As I said, I have all assists off. STIG MODE!
Click to expand...

Then its easy... put ABS on 1... :) Then you dont have the lock ups... don't worry though you wont be any less of a driver with your ABS on 1. In my experience Ive never beenable to drive fast and proper with ABS to 0 and the rest of the aids off.... Try all aids off and ABS 1, if you want to that is :)
 
Blitz187
Then its easy... put ABS on 1... :) Then you dont have the lock ups... don't worry though you wont be any less of a driver with your ABS on 1. In my experience Ive never beenable to drive fast and proper with ABS to 0 and the rest of the aids off.... Try all aids off and ABS 1, if you want to that is :)
Click to expand...

In Prologue it helped, in GT5, does not ... I tried and it did not seem to work, still had lockups on the high powered cars, then just switched it off and learned to control the brakes myself (still not good enough to tackle the top gear challange elise)
 
I think I'm getting there - it's just a case of aggresively counteracting any loss of traction and making my downshifts early in the zone. I'm beginning to think it's my downshifts which are doing it, not necessarily my braking. Perhaps using the clutch and heel-toeing would help - but I'm not that much of a stig! Plus it's not going to work in my slippers (damn are these pedals cold)
 
aigners
In Prologue it helped, in GT5, does not ... I tried and it did not seem to work, still had lockups on the high powered cars, then just switched it off and learned to control the brakes myself (still not good enough to tackle the top gear challange elise)
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I have the ABS on 1 at the moment and I havent had any weird problems... I think I'll try out ABS on 0 and see what happens... And I havent done the Top Gear Challenge yet, but if its an Elise never lift-off the throttle totally is the only real tip I can give :) Otherwise you get the lift-off oversteer which I have seen mentioned here in the thread. Its a mid-engined car afterall...
 
Anes
Any car travelling over 120km/h will have at least some level of downward pressure as no engineer designs a car with lift but it's particularly noticeable in supercars of course.
Click to expand...

Hey Anes, I'm afraid your not quite right there, most road cars are designed with some lift, sports cars tend to aim for neutral and hardcore motors do manage to produce some downforce.

On road cars its the front to rear lift balance that is vital, cars that aren't great, will become 'disconnected' at speed and you lose steering efforts and feel.

As for the original rear locking your probably right about your downshifts, but if its not that then its too much rear brake bias, or as others have suggested you do need to nail the pedal at first and then release pedal pressure slightly as your speed decreases (I won't go into the geeky bit on that one). Jimbo

PS: Sorry its geeky, but I am an automotive engineer
 
Running modern cars at abs 0 is actually making them unrealistically difficult to drive, especially since it sounds like the braking model is very realistic.

Really most cars from the mid 80s forward should probably have abs enabled for realism...maybe early 90s. I always left it off in the past but may be using it in 5 from the sound of things. I always dialed in just a bit of TCS on the more excessively powerful vehicles as well.
 
Jimbo924
As for the original rear locking your probably right about your downshifts, but if its not that then its too much rear brake bias, or as others have suggested you do need to nail the pedal at first and then release pedal pressure slightly as your speed decreases (I won't go into the geeky bit on that one). Jimbo
Click to expand...

Please do! I'd love to learn the mechanics of this - if I understand it I'll find it easier. Cheers for the tip though I'm going to attack the brake bias.
 
The reason to ease back is weight transfer.

Under accelleration the rear wheels have a load on them due to inertia, when you stab the brakes you transfer that load to the front wheels. As this happens, if you do not ease the brakes the rear will lock. As the weight transfers off of the rear end it will require less force to lock up the wheels, so you adjust your brake pressure accordingly.

Its like if you're on a bicycle and you hit your rear brakes hard but don't lock them. If you pop the rear wheel up while doing this it'll stop dead as it leaves the ground. Also works if you just lean way forward while braking.
 
Just did a race with ABS 1 :-( Can't race like that - you stand on the brakes and it's fine! Gonna have to persevere with brake balance and, you know, skill!
 
Back