Has anyone else noticed this?!

As I said with WRC, Japan was literally nowhere until Group B was banned. Most of the top manufacturers and independents left or lost interest. Only after Audi showing the way with the quattro did the Japanese super saloon's take over...
This is just incorrect. Toyota had a long history of producing championship-winning rally cars long before group B. Toyota Celica Twin Cam Turbo won half a dozen Group B rallies.

Today's WRC cars being faster and more reliable around a stage, Toyota's still doing pretty good.
 
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This is just incorrect. Toyota had a long history of producing championship-winning rally cars long before group B. Toyota Celica Twin Cam Turbo won half a dozen Group B rallies.

Today's WRC cars being faster and more reliable around a stage, Toyota's still doing pretty good.
Where? Before and to the end of group B (1986) the entire list of WRC champions are;

1973 Alpine-Renault

1974 Lancia Stratos

1975 Lancia Stratos

1976 Lancia Stratos

1977 ItalySandro Munari Lancia Stratos

1978 FinlandMarkku Alén Fiat 131 Abarth

1979 SwedenBjörn Waldegård Ford Escort RS18002

1980 West GermanyWalter Röhrl Fiat 131 Abarth

1981 FinlandAri VatanenFord Escort RS1800

1982 West GermanyWalter Röhrl Opel Ascona

1983 FinlandHannu Mikkola Audi Quattro A1/A2

1984 SwedenStig Blomqvist Audi Quattro A2/Sport Quattro

1985 FinlandTimo Salonen Peugeot 205 T16

1986 FinlandJuha Kankkunen Peugeot 205 T16
 
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I drive a 2013 F-150 STX 4x4 in real life. I used to drive a 98 F-150 XL, right around the time GT4 came out.
My truck today is very similar to the Raptor. IRL I am absolutely stuck to the road, whereas the in game Raptor handles like a lead slug. IRL the Raptor is rear wheel drive under normal operation. This isn't even possible in GT7. The IRL raptor tops out at 100 MPH. At that speed it locks the engine to a low maximum RPM and sets a DTC code.
Back in the day the truck I drove was much more different from the in game vehicle, but the Lightning still was almost unrecognizable. I had some upgrades to my older truck. Both were capable of some snap oversteer even on the driest pavement. I will say this: the manual transmission in game didn't even come close to real life.
I don't think either of those trucks they had in game was built with a true manual transmission. The Raptor may have a "manual" setting, I'm not sure if they put it on the 6R80 in 2011. My current vehicle does, it works like the "manual" transmission in the game.
Ford changed their transmission setup on the 2011 F-150. They moved the electronics from the transmission into the ECM, leaving behind a fragile plastic frame that causes severe issues. I'm not sure if the '11 Raptor had the faulty 6R80 or not. I also have a 2010 F-150 and a rather peppy 2003 SuperCrew, they have the 4.6 Romeo and 4.6 Windsor, respectively, and the 4R70W transmission.

As for trucks... When it comes to full size pickups, Ford and to an extent GM have the US market locked up. It's just that simple. Where I live you'll see a few Tundras, a few Titans, and even the odd T-100. Most of what you see are Fords and the mix of GM pickups. You'll see a Mark LT or a Blackwood here and there. You'll also see guys with their Ram trucks treating them like they're classic Dodges (which they aren't).
 
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Got to promote some fun discussion when you're bored. ;)

I stand by my point which is Japanese manufacturers only tend to win when the current status quo leave and that GT7 is shamelessly biased.


Ford powered half the F1 grid for about 20 years with the DFV, including constructors champions. It's widely regarded as the best F1 engine ever built. So I'm talking historically as well as the present - the whole thing.

As I said with WRC, Japan was literally nowhere until Group B was banned. Most of the top manufacturers and independents left or lost interest. Only after Audi showing the way with the quattro did the Japanese super saloon's take over...

...which is a similar story with WEC. There's almost no other manufacturers competing. Kind of easy to win when there is no-one to race.

And when they do try to race where there is unlimited competition with an entire car, not just an engine as per F1, they have failed embarassingly.
So you are just going to ignore the fact the Rx7 dominated for nearly an entire decade in the IMSA GTU class..
I like to imagine that's a corvette's piston.
 

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I really don't get your point.

Obviously. I'm glad you admitted your analogy wasn't all that thorough, but I'll make this simple & concluding. You want to write off Japanese cars success against other German/American sports cars because it happened "30 years ago" by intentionally limiting the comparison to just "street cars" to prove your point.

As I already said, this discussion went from show me a Japanese car competing against your listed cars (the RCF GT3) to now suddenly knowing who was winning what classes what year so you can compare whose won more. Which has essentially moved the goal posts & continued to want your "comparison" limited to a desired class. It's been a cherry picking discussion from the start that questions the competitiveness of Japanese manufacturers against American/German brands whilst ignoring that Japanese makers were going for overall wins than GTD or whatever wins.

It's a repetitive argument that bares no further discussion at this point. Japan has & is still competing against Corvettes, 911s, & everything else overall. To try and short stop their success to specific variables is silly.
 
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F1 engines are dominated by Ferrari, Ford and Mercedes. Japan have like won 5 WCC with their engines, 4 of them yet again coming because the regs were changed and no-one could be bothered to compete, almost literally.

Simply, other nations have to lose interest and flat leave, before Japan can pick up the dregs win anything. The Japanese are out-classed at all other times.
Honda engines won 6 constructor's championships in a row, through an engine formula change from turbo to NA, beating the likes of Ferrari, BMW, Renault, Porsche & Ford to name a few.

I stand by my point which is Japanese manufacturers only tend to win when the current status quo leave
No, that wasn't your point. You just changed your point, to this slightly less stupid but still wrong point, when you got your arse handed to you on a plate.

This was your point.
the Japanese have always been completely out-classed by every developed nation in motorsport since... ever.
 
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Obviously. I'm glad you admitted your analogy wasn't all that thorough, but I'll make this simple & concluding. You want to write off Japanese cars success against other German/American sports cars because it happened "30 years ago" by intentionally limiting the comparison to just "street cars" to prove your point.
Pretty thorough to me with 1 GTD championship and a 2nd place with RCF when racing the sports cars from other manufacturers in the last 30 years.

To quote my unedited first post in this thread:
I think to drive @mattikake's point home we should be comparing the NON LMP, NON Prototype, NON F1 cars, outside of WRC (no rally racing). Then we see how many wins Japanese cars have as a whole. From what a remember its not too many when racing with Corvette, 911, BMW, etc cars. These cars that race the Viper GTS-R, Corvette C5R/C6R/C7R, 911, Ford GTLM, etc, those classes, no Japanese cars are competing. They probably win at the compact and sub compact level, but at the R35 GTR, NSX, Supra level they AREN'T racing the brands we know that have been dominating.

I mean someone show me a Ford GTLM, C8R, 911 RSR class cars and a Japanese car racing them. I dont think theres any, is there?

Also, as far as the OP is concerned, the C7Z is a hard car to drive 10/10ths. It has a ton of torque and easy to spin. Theres a video online that exaggerates this when they compared it to a GT350R and an ACR. The Z06 just spun, exaggeration, I know. You have to be a really good drive to wring out that cars potential, then theres the over heating issue. Its so bad a ZL1 performs better despite weight in 300+ lbs more. GM fixed this with the ZR1.
 
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To quote my unedited first post in this thread:
Which was cherry picking. Then, when it was revealed to you that Japan has a strong history of competing against "Corvettes, 911s, BMWs, etc", you moved the goal posts to recent times because, "30 yEaRs AgO" & tried to continue limiting the discussion to just 1 specific class.

Your argument has become as baseless & asinine as the very one you tried to piggyback.
 
Man, just take the 'L'. This community is good with links to back up claims and helpful to educate all types of users. No shame in learning when to quit.
 
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Which was cherry picking. Then, when it was revealed to you that Japan has a strong history of competing against "Corvettes, 911s, BMWs, etc", you moved the goal posts to recent times because, "30 yEaRs AgO" & tried to continue limiting the discussion to just 1 specific class.

Your argument has become as baseless & asinine as the very one you tried to piggyback.
Show me that strong history. I didn't limit it to a class, I'm asking Japan's best sports cars, their halo cars competing on the world stage. We got the RX7 and R32 in the 80s early 90s. Where are they now? 1 GTD championship and 2nd place with the RCF in GTPRO.
Thats basically 1 win in 30 years. I quickly checked FIA GT a couple of days ago and didnt see them at the top. I quoted my argument, you liked to skirt around it by saying I moved goal posts, nah bruh. Outside prototype racing, they have won 1 in the last 30 years. Unless there are other series you can point me to.
 
Show me that strong history.
I already did.
I didn't limit it to a class,
What class do you think these cars (Viper GTS-R, Corvette C5R/C6R/C7R, 911, Ford GTLM) mainly raced in? Hint: It's the one the manufacturers field their own teams in & at one point, was just GM vs privateers. Then it was Porsche & Chevrolet until the class actually expanded.

It's interesting and yet not surprising, you remain solely focused here because a lot of mainstream sports cars in the world did not compete in this class to begin with.
I'm asking Japan's best sports cars, their halo cars competing on the world stage. We got the RX7 and R32 in the 80s early 90s. Where are they now?
Out of production alongside the other Japanese halo cars you've tried to bring up. Your argument repeatedly centered around an era of American sports cars when Japan wasn't competing on that level; again, by wanting to purposely cherry pick & ignore that their efforts in the era of the "Viper GTS-R, Corvette C5R/C6R/C7R, 911, Ford GTLM" were in LMP & attempting to win the championships overall. You even ironically said, "People remember the cars who won" & yet here you are going, "Don't count".
1 GTD championship and 2nd place with the RCF in GTPRO.
Something you didn't even know about 48 hours ago.
"I mean someone show me a Ford GTLM, C8R, 911 RSR class cars and a Japanese car racing them. I dont think theres any, is there?"
I quoted my argument, you liked to skirt around it by saying I moved goal posts, nah bruh.
Yah bruh.

As completely pointed out in this very post. You said show me a Japanese car racing 3 specific cars because you didn't think there was any, & now you suddenly want to keep your argument hinged on that car to prove your point.

jergto
Unless there are other series you can point me to.
There's the GT4 European Series that Toyota has gotten back into with the Supra & I believe won in 2021. Should be an acceptable measure of race car by your determined restriction of, "street driven" given GT4 cars are a lot closer to road legal than x.Rs, Ford GTLMs, & RSRs. But, of course, you also wanted to exclude rally racing which weirdly negates the, "street driven/road car" restriction given rally cars are street legal.
 
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Something you didn't even know about 48 hours ago.
"I mean someone show me a Ford GTLM, C8R, 911 RSR class cars and a Japanese car racing them. I dont think theres any, is there?"
Like I said I was at the Laguna Seca race earlier this year, I got in with Lexus since my brother owns an RCF. I actually did not care at all about that car. Cared more about getting to drive a CT4 and CT5, both blackwings outside the track. I don't remember if the RCF won.
What class do you think these cars (Viper GTS-R, Corvette C5R/C6R/C7R, 911, Ford GTLM) mainly raced in? Hint: It's the one the manufacturers field their own teams in & at one point, was just GM vs privateers. Then it was Porsche & Chevrolet until the class actually expanded.
So your best rebuttal is prototypes which do not resemble any sports cars, do they resemble engines with production cars? LOL

To conclude, Japan did not compete with these class of cars till more recently with the NSX and now RCF race cars.
 
Like I said I was at the Laguna Seca race earlier this year, I got in with Lexus since my brother owns an RCF. I actually did not care at all about that car. Cared more about getting to drive a CT4 and CT5, both blackwings outside the track. I don't remember if the RCF won.
That doesn't exclude your ignorance, but it reveals enough at the same time.
So your best rebuttal is prototypes which do not resemble any sports cars, do they resemble engines with production cars? LOL
You're so caught up on this absolutely insignificant detail that A) It wasn't my argument, it is was highlighting for the 'Xth' amount of time that you cherry pick a specific class. B) It absolutely highlights the hypocrisy in this entire argument because you wanted Rally Cars excluded as well except those cars are street legal unlike GTLM/GTD cars, but anyone with half a brain can probably understand why you don't want those cars brought up. Same reason you don't want SuperGT/LMP/Nascar/Open Wheel cars brought up.

Everyone here has been aware of this attempt to downplay Japanese manufacturer's success, but you've managed to outshine the other guy. Bravo.
 
That doesn't exclude your ignorance, but it reveals enough at the same time.

You're so caught up on this absolutely insignificant detail that A) It wasn't my argument, it is was highlighting for the 'Xth' amount of time that you cherry pick a specific class. B) It absolutely highlights the hypocrisy in this entire argument because you wanted Rally Cars excluded as well except those cars are street legal unlike GTLM/GTD cars, but anyone with half a brain can probably understand why you don't want those cars brought up. Same reason you don't want SuperGT/LMP/Nascar/Open Wheel cars brought up.

Everyone here has been aware of this attempt to downplay Japanese manufacturer's success, but you've managed to outshine the other guy. Bravo.
I'm not well versed in rally cars nor have I actually driven rally. The basis of my comparison is something we can actually have first hand experience in like driving the cars I've been talking about. Not fantasy land where you can drive prototype cars on the street. Let me guess, you've driven rally cars and the street version of that car?
 
I'm not well versed in rally cars nor have I actually driven rally. The basis of my comparison is something we can actually have first hand experience in like driving the cars I've been talking about. Not fantasy land where you can drive prototype cars on the street. Let me guess, you've driven rally cars and the street version of that car?
That is not what you insinuated at all.
I think to drive @mattikake's point home we should be comparing the NON LMP, NON Prototype, NON F1 cars, outside of WRC (no rally racing). Then we see how many wins Japanese cars have as a whole. From what a remember its not too many when racing with Corvette, 911, BMW, etc cars. These cars that race the Viper GTS-R, Corvette C5R/C6R/C7R, 911, Ford GTLM, etc, those classes, no Japanese cars are competing. They probably win at the compact and sub compact level, but at the R35 GTR, NSX, Supra level they AREN'T racing the brands we know that have been dominating.
I mean someone show me a Ford GTLM, C8R, 911 RSR class cars and a Japanese car racing them. I dont think theres any, is there?

This is more goal post moving to focus on actual experience to validate this weird pinhole you're obsessed with.

I've driven a share of sports cars, but would never think my time behind the wheel of my own Z06 somehow is of any relevance to which manufacturer wins more. Complete bullocks & waste of time.
 
That is not what you insinuated at all.


This is more goal post moving to focus on actual experience to validate this weird pinhole you're obsessed with.

I've driven a share of sports cars, but would never think my time behind the wheel of my own Z06 somehow is of any relevance to which manufacturer wins more. Complete bullocks & waste of time.
The manufacturer wins were to back up the pedigree of the cars I've been mentioning have. Yet in GT7 they cant even get the color and fitment right, at least for my car. And experience from what the OP has posted. Not to mention the limited mods you can do to the American cars. C'mon are you that much of a fanboy that you don't see the bias?

I'm curious about these street legal rally cars you've been touting. Are these 600hp rally cars that race in WRC street legal? I actually never knew that. They'll pass emission in Cali, straight pipe and all?
 
The manufacturer wins were to back up the pedigree of the cars I've been mentioning have.
No one ever said they didn't have pedigree.
Yet in GT7 they cant even get the color and fitment right, at least for my car. And experience from what the OP has posted. Not to mention the limited mods you can do to the American cars.
I hate to break it to you, but this is an unfortunate occurrence that happens in other games as well. Has nothing to do with "purposeful bias".
C'mon are you that much of a fanboy that you don't see the bias?
What in the **** does this have anything to do with your short sighted history of Japanese motorsports? I've long been critical of the game's other areas.
I'm curious about these street legal rally cars you've been touting. Are these 600hp rally cars that race in WRC street legal? I actually never knew that. They'll pass emission in Cali, straight pipe and all?
Yes, the rules require them to be street legal because they take part on public roads. And yes, judging by the current ruling, they might just pass emissions in Cali.
Hyundai Motorsport
The end of one special stage does not signal the start of the next. After each stage has been completed, drivers must make their way to the next part of the rally. Unlike special stages, the road sections are run on public roads that are also open to normal traffic, so drivers must adhere to the normal rules of the road in that country. For this reason, WRC cars must be fully road-legal and carry number plates and mandatory safety equipment. With the current generation of cars, crews have to complete some of the road section only on electric power.
 
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