Has PDI purposefully nerfed g29 ffb in GTS to promote thrustmaster?

[Haitauer]

I think i might be opening a can of worms here.

FFB of G29 in GTS is subpar. Worst than in previous GT titles in ps3 and below most games in ps4. For me as g29 user this is unexpectable.

I just cant believe PDI couldnt deliver good ffb for Logitech wheel if they wanted. And if they want GTS to be a game for the masses, optimizing it to 1000$ controller is a terrible mistake. I think we already see this in the rise of popularity of PCars 2. Even i have a copy on the way.

This coming from someone close to being considered a fanboy of Gran Turismo and Playstation - im starting to make even my self worried.

 

[Nuschel01]

Where is my tin foil hat? 💡

 

[GTFraker]

I recently bought F1 2017 and it's amazing how much more info you get from the track compared to GTS.

 

[Haitauer]

Where is my tin foil hat? 💡

No not really - its business. Logitech used to be the companion of PDI, now its Thrustmaster.

I recently bought F1 2017 and it's amazing how much more info you get from the track compared to GTS.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Slapped]

I agree that GTS has the least amount of information coming through the wheel, but then again other titles seem hell bent on shoving everything, including the kitchen sink, through the wheel.

Admittedly I don't have a recent baseline as I haven't driven a real car in over 10 years, but from what I do remember from my time doing enthusiastic driving around country lanes is that most of the information was coming through the car itself (g forces, bumps etc) and not through the wheel as such.

In that respect the FFB of GTS seems more in line with what I've experienced in real life in terms of what's coming through the wheel. Then again most of the spirited driving that I have done has been in old bangers, and not high performance sports or race cars so I'm back to lacking that baseline again.

I do, however, understand the need for immersion in driving sims, especially as you're lacking all the other forces that would give you information, but when I load up PC2 or AC I do wonder if I would actually be feeling all of that through the wheel, or whether the developers have hyped up the FFB to make up for the other missing stimuli.

 

[Scaff]

I think i might be opening a can of worms here.

FFB of G29 in GTS is subpar. Worst than in previous GT titles in ps3 and below most games in ps4. For me as g29 user this is unexpectable.

I just cant believe PDI couldnt deliver good ffb for Logitech wheel if they wanted. And if they want GTS to be a game for the masses, optimizing it to 1000$ controller is a terrible mistake. I think we already see this in the rise of popularity of PCars 2. Even i have a copy on the way.

This coming from someone close to being considered a fanboy of Gran Turismo and Playstation - im starting to make even my self worried.

Given that FFB on the T300 is bloody appalling as well (in comparison to, well everything else) then no.

PD have screwed up on the FFB, and that most certainly includes the utterly wrong and 'should be killed with fire' rattle on understeer!

I agree that GTS has the least amount of information coming through the wheel, but then again other titles seem hell bent on shoving everything, including the kitchen sink, through the wheel.

Admittedly I don't have a recent baseline as I haven't driven a real car in over 10 years, but from what I do remember from my time doing enthusiastic driving around country lanes is that most of the information was coming through the car itself (g forces, bumps etc) and not through the wheel as such.

In that respect the FFB of GTS seems more in line with what I've experienced in real life in terms of what's coming through the wheel. Then again most of the spirited driving that I have done has been in old bangers, and not high performance sports or race cars so I'm back to lacking that baseline again.

I do, however, understand the need for immersion in driving sims, especially as you're lacking all the other forces that would give you information, but when I load up PC2 or AC I do wonder if I would actually be feeling all of that through the wheel, or whether the developers have hyped up the FFB to make up for the other missing stimuli.

As long as you run RAW on PC2 and switch off the canned effects in AC then they are pretty much as they should be in comparison to reality.

Brands Hatch is the clearest example for me, as I've been fortunate enough to drive it a number of times (and its in all three for easy comparison), its a bumpy old track with a lot of camber changes and none of that is communicated in GTS, while you can feel it quite clearly in both PC2 and AC.

Its however the race prepped cars that make the lack the most obvious, as in reality these not only run significantly stiffer suspension than road cars, but will also have every rubber/poly bushing removed and replaced with rose-joints and similar. Nice soft, absorbent bushings are used on even the stiffest road car, as Noise, Vibration and Harshness put people off (for obvious reasons), factors that go out the window when it comes to race prepped cars.

Until you have been in/driven one, its almost impossible to comprehend just how much more you feel (including via the steering - those bushings take care of that) in a race car than you do in even the most extreme road car.

 

[PzR Slim]

The ffb is GTS in just pants. I'm using a CSW V2 with a Drivehub, although have tried it with my T500RS with the same results, and found it to be truly awful. I haven't used a controller in racing games other than arcade racers for getting on for 15 years yet I was so frustrated by using a wheel in GTS that I tried with a controller and was immediately a second quicker than with a wheel. Steering wheel implementation in GTS is woeful. Clearly designed with a controller in mind and wheel support seems to be an afterthought.

 

[Veinz]

Absolutely yes, Thrustmaster makes their 'official' wheel, no doubt they are going to optimize it more than the others. It's not terrible but It feels kind of similar to the older Forza Motorsport games, which were terrible on a wheel btw.

GTS feels numb with the G29 especially compared to other racing games I own like Pcars 2, Dirt Rally, Assetto Corsa and F1 2017. Those other games have a great feel with it.

 

[Slapped]

As long as you run RAW on PC2 and switch off the canned effects in AC then they are pretty much as they should be in comparison to reality.

RAW was pretty much what I decided on with PC2 as the other two modes felt somewhat exaggerated for my tastes. Certainly taking the Porsche RSR round the Hatch on PC2 was way more involving and exciting that it is in GTS. To my shame, however, I've not spent anywhere near enough time in PC2 or AC - something that needs to be addressed I feel.

Brands Hatch is the clearest example for me, as I've been fortunate enough to drive it a number of times (and its in all three for easy comparison), its a bumpy old track with a lot of camber changes and none of that is communicated in GTS, while you can feel it quite clearly in both PC2 and AC.

One of the things that I noticed way back in GT 4 (never played GT5 or GT6) is that the tracks themselves, regardless of original or world, seemed to be unnaturally smooth. Certainly the only track, other than the rally tracks, that actually got the dual shock to wobble was the Nordschleife. On other tracks pretty much nothing, unless you went over a rumble strip.

If PD has kept this "smooth" design decision and carried it forward to GTS then it may be the lack of detail on the track rather than the FFB implementation perhaps? Although, as you say, the FFB is screwed up in other aspects, so it may be that PD have messed up in general here.

Its however the race prepped cars that make the lack the most obvious, as in reality these not only run significantly stiffer suspension than road cars, but will also have every rubber/poly bushing removed and replaced with rose-joints and similar. Nice soft, absorbent bushings are used on even the stiffest road car, as Noise, Vibration and Harshness put people off (for obvious reasons), factors that go out the window when it comes to race prepped cars.

Until you have been in/driven one, its almost impossible to comprehend just how much more you feel (including via the steering - those bushings take care of that) in a race car than you do in even the most extreme road car.

Well I wasn't under the illusion that they set up race cars to drive like a Bentley on freshly resurfaced motorway, but you are right in that I really don't have a clue how hard these cars are setup. And given that I have never been in one, and most probably never will be in one, I'll likely never experience it for myself, so I'll totally accept your word on it.

 

[Haitauer]

So it seems PDI has ruined ffb for all other wheels in favor of rumble-subwoofer Thrustmaster T-GT..

This is bad, as so much of driving simulators "physics" are actually based on mimicking the actual physics through ffb. It seems the age old question between "good" and "bad" physics quite often comes down to good or bad ffb.

 

[Veinz]

Yes it's too bad because I am not willing to spend that much money on something that's seemingly unreliable.

 

[Sander 001]

I think i might be opening a can of worms here.

FFB of G29 in GTS is subpar. Worst than in previous GT titles in ps3 and below most games in ps4. For me as g29 user this is unexpectable.

I just cant believe PDI couldnt deliver good ffb for Logitech wheel if they wanted. And if they want GTS to be a game for the masses, optimizing it to 1000$ controller is a terrible mistake. I think we already see this in the rise of popularity of PCars 2. Even i have a copy on the way.

This coming from someone close to being considered a fanboy of Gran Turismo and Playstation - im starting to make even my self worried.

I think it's more like they put almost all their efforts into the T-GT and left everybody else hanging.
It's business, I'm sure the high cost of the T-GT has to do with PD taking a cut of the revenue.

 

[banckzy]

GTS is my first experience with a wheel, and yes I own a G29 (as you can probably tell from my picture!)

I did play Driveclub VR the other week and did notice considerably how much more 'feel' I got from that compared to GTS.

However, I don't think I'd be forking out an extra £300/400 for a wheel that may give me a bit more feel.