Heel/Toe

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KarlG

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KarlG
Hello everyone. I've been trying the heel/toe technique. I've made a few vids and could you please watch them and comment on if i'm doing it right, or if i'm using too much throttle , too less etc. I'm completely new at this.



Thank you.



F430



Honda
 
I would be interested in hearing the replies to this thread from more experienced players. I've recently started heel toe-ing and have no idea how much to kick the throttle up by on downshifts. It's a lot easier to "feel" in a real car.
 
I would say you're making good progress :)

I was at that stage at one point too when I was learning. With practice you will get better, but it's all about the practice.

One thing you should concentrate on is changing gears quicker, and hence heel-toeing quicker. That will come naturally though as you improve.

Below is a vid of me playing when I first bought my G25.

 
Thanks for the comments.:)
Going to try again later. Finding clutch shifting quite hard though as i've never driven a car in real life.

Edit- Nice vid too. Next time i might do a lap recording feet. Then record replay and sync them up. I only have 1 camera.
 
Talking about that technic, I aproach this thread to ask about it two things:

1.- Why people do it?, I mean... the only knowledge I've about it is that racers do it to not damage the engine while downshifting, because when you go to a gear under the one you're driving, the motor gets an impulse to rev up and if you do this technic you're like giving a bit of help to state the revs at the good point before depress the clutch. Am I right?

2.- If I'm right on the point from before, on video games it will be like a question of fun? because it's not a question about of life-cycle of your engine like on real life... and I don't see the point of better or worse times if you do or don't the Heel/Toe thing... because if you don't do it, the motor will rev it like always to get the right rpms for the downshift.. and yeah it won't be smoth but it works like always.

I personally talk the very unknown, I've not any contact with race so I ask because I really don't know much about this. One day I tried to do it while driving on my student car haha, and the result was a very big pressure to the brake while trying to touch the throtle & brake with the same foot... fortunately nobody saw me to ask why I was braking without reasons on the middle of a straight :yuck:
 
Seems like the pedals take some abuse when using heel-toe... is it safe to be a lil rough with it?
 
I thought the Clutch didnt work in gt5p and g25, i tried it and never seem to be able to get it going? Could somebody shed some light on this.
 
Catlin
I thought the Clutch didnt work in gt5p and g25, i tried it and never seem to be able to get it going? Could somebody shed some light on this.
Click to expand...

Put in 6-Speed mode and when you gain control press Triangle. Top button on shifter.

Also is this method correct. Say i'm going 5th to 3rd.
I press brake, Press clutch, select gear, rev, release clutch, re press clutch, select gear, rev, release clutch.

Thanks again
 
Aero-R
Talking about that technic, I aproach this thread to ask about it two things:

1.- Why people do it?, I mean... the only knowledge I've about it is that racers do it to not damage the engine while downshifting, because when you go to a gear under the one you're driving, the motor gets an impulse to rev up and if you do this technic you're like giving a bit of help to state the revs at the good point before depress the clutch. Am I right?

2.- If I'm right on the point from before, on video games it will be like a question of fun? because it's not a question about of life-cycle of your engine like on real life... and I don't see the point of better or worse times if you do or don't the Heel/Toe thing... because if you don't do it, the motor will rev it like always to get the right rpms for the downshift.. and yeah it won't be smoth but it works like always.
Click to expand...

The heal/toe technique is to match engine and transmission speeds when downshifting. While I guess it could be to help with preventing engine/transmission wear or damage, it is mostly to prevent abrupt engine braking that could upset the balance of the car while braking and downshifting at the same time. Smooth = fast.

As to why do it in the game, since the GT series is more of a simulation, the more realism you can add, the better. I don't have the G25, therefor no clutch so I don't 'have' to heal/toe. If I did have a clutch, I would probably try it if I was having problems with a car getting squirrelly under braking/downshifting. In real life I have never 'had' to do it, but I did do in my old GTI (R.I.P.) and I wasn't very good at it. It take a lot of practice.

KarlG
Put in 6-Speed mode and when you gain control press Triangle. Top button on shifter.

Also is this method correct. Say i'm going 5th to 3rd.
I press brake, Press clutch, select gear, rev, release clutch, re press clutch, select gear, rev, release clutch.

Thanks again
Click to expand...

If you are going from 5th to 3rd and don't want/need any engine braking you can just skip 4th, actually you could just skip the heal/toe. In racing though it would be like this:
brake, clutch, neutral, clutch out, rev, clutch, 4th, clutch out, clutch, neutral, clutch out, rev, clutch, 3rd, clutch out.

Like I said before it takes a lot of practice.
 
as some people pointed out. Heel-Toe is used to simply match engine speeds to gears and to prevent jerky movement that is enough in reality to take you off your race line and lose time. it defiantly takes a load of stress of the drivetrain.

i personally rev match every day and when drifting and doing auto-x( sometimes... if you ever get out of second gear)... second nature to me. i have yet to play with this g25. good looking video man
 
Brake, Clutch, Rev while sliding into new gear, off the gas, off the clutch, apply brake as needed.

Thing is though I found It only help's in GT5 with RWD car's. Something like the 430 that has a digital clutch with the paddle's you there is no need to heel-toe.

And if you dont have the G25 you cant heel-toe anyway.

For some reason in that honda video it looks like you are revving after you put it into gear. You dont rev before pulling it out of gear or after you do it while your going through neutral.
 
Juice476
Brake, Clutch, Rev while sliding into new gear, off the gas, off the clutch, apply brake as needed.

Thing is though I found It only help's in GT5 with RWD car's. Something like the 430 that has a digital clutch with the paddle's you there is no need to heel-toe.

And if you dont have the G25 you cant heel-toe anyway.

For some reason in that honda video it looks like you are revving after you put it into gear. You dont rev before pulling it out of gear or after you do it while your going through neutral.
Click to expand...

I thought i was doing something wrong. i thought you could do it whenever aslong as clutch is pressed.:ouch:
 
You're doing fine, KarlG 👍 As said by Xaero you need to get a bit quicker with your movements. I'm sure you'll master the technique with some more practice.

What you want to achieve is that you can shift so quick and smooth, that you get in the rev zone just before the rev limiter when you shift down to a lower gear. The higher the revs, the more engine braking you have.
This is another reason why drivers like to master the heel and toe technique. Besides being able to keep the car more stable under braking, you can also brake later when you're able to apply the technique properly.

Good luck :sly:
 
well in reality it performed all in one motion.

Brake-clutch-gas while moving down a gear... for the best example... look up any best motoring footwork video. you will see. its all one fluid motion takes practice to get good at.
 
Iv been pratice this for a while now in my real car just to get use to it and i still suck lol. But i remember watching F1 when Schumacher was racing and seeing his onboards. He seemed to be the only one in the field using heel & toe.
One day a g25 will be mine :P
 
Xaero
I would say you're making good progress :)

I was at that stage at one point too when I was learning. With practice you will get better, but it's all about the practice.

One thing you should concentrate on is changing gears quicker, and hence heel-toeing quicker. That will come naturally though as you improve.

Below is a vid of me playing when I first bought my G25.

Click to expand...


That was wicked clean ..👍👍
 
Xaero
I would say you're making good progress :)

I was at that stage at one point too when I was learning. With practice you will get better, but it's all about the practice.

One thing you should concentrate on is changing gears quicker, and hence heel-toeing quicker. That will come naturally though as you improve.

Below is a vid of me playing when I first bought my G25.

Click to expand...


Darn do I want to go play LFS right now after watching that.
 
Ren-Tec
Iv been pratice this for a while now in my real car just to get use to it and i still suck lol. But i remember watching F1 when Schumacher was racing and seeing his onboards. He seemed to be the only one in the field using heel & toe.
One day a g25 will be mine :P
Click to expand...
They brake with their left foot in F1...
 
But it's ooooooober awesome and he was doing the thing with his feet where he presses the pedals at the same time effectively balancing the car throughout the turn.
 
Biggamehit
^^

that is not LFS bro
Click to expand...

I know, I will make a thread in the LFS section and link it here.
And shadow, it actually takes a bit of geting used to. I'm still not good at it and mess up about 20% of the time, mostly on the release of the gas I leave the brake i too long and lock the rears sending me in a slide which in that car is VERY hard to control.
 
The game has settings, why don't you just adjust your braking more towards the front, soften out the rear spring rate and stiffen the damper out rear. Theoretically, there should be plenty of pressure pushing down on the rears at that point to avoid a lock up. . .

-Stig
 
Shadow Drifter
The game has settings, why don't you just adjust your braking more towards the front, soften out the rear spring rate and stiffen the damper out rear. Theoretically, there should be plenty of pressure pushing down on the rears at that point to avoid a lock up. . .

-Stig
Click to expand...
But I do love how the car handles stock. Drives just like a 911 (maybe cause it's based off of one ;) ). I have mostly just kept trying toput my feet as far appart as possible to stop this from happening.

EDIT
Here are the videos
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3060047&postcount=168
Any advice you guys can give me is appreciated.
 
Wondering if with the Heel/Toe thing, the axis of the pedals, for example the throtle one, get any damag... because you're pushing it horizontally with the right part or your right food, and that's hurting the axis maybe.
 
I watched the videos on the first page and the driver's do good.

As long as you dont use more or less then 25% of plip aka throttle between downshifting, youre doing great.

Plip is needed that the engine and the gearbox will get the same amount of RPM, so when you downshift the gear will pop in smooth, if you dont use the Plip then engine RPM and gearbox RPM are not the same and the gear will be crashed in.

Hope i could help

Chris
 

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