Help - luxury saloon for £4K

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How old am i really................. 20!

Its not going to be my car, so i dont really care, im just trying to get information on what to buy. Cause i know my dad wont find out anything about whatever he buys, so i'm just getting a head start.

I havent got an insurance quote because its not for me. My dads 52 with along time no claims, so whatever the car is, it will be cheaper than most people to insure.

But basically you are saying dont get an Impreza for under £4k, ok. We probably wont then, if that tends to be the general concesion (and assumin my dad listens to me).

Anyways, i think he wants a Volvo now. So i dunno!! And it looks like we only got £3k now. ARGHH!
 
555
We dont care about it getting nicked if it only cost £4k. Besides the last car (RS turbo) got nicked (it was a insurance right off so we didnt care) & several of the motorbikes we used to own got nicked, so honestly we wouldnt really care that much.

555
...My dads 52 with along time no claims...

How come your dad has loads of no-claims bonus, yet has an unfortunate history of having vehicles nicked?
 
*chuckle* i see insurance premiums are as bad in the UK as to rates as they are over here...where it seems that anything with less than 4 doors, or more than 4 cylinders is considered a sports car, and anything with LESS than 4 cylinders is considered a road hazard :P

does the UK have a bare minimum rate? like liability only?

555: how could you find a vehicle THAT cheap in the luxury class that doen't have 200k miles on it?

Beamers have long term electrical problems? :laugh: sounds like american fords...I should know after 3 of em. wonder if Vauxes have mechanical hardware problems (sticky or dropped off door release rods, locks that won't move cause they didn't have enough grease to begin with, etc) like US GM's do?
 
PS...regarding British english...i'm one of the few yanks that understood what he was saying
btw, the trouble and strife gets the better rates, here ;)
 
:lol: It's pretty funny what some people in here define as "Luxury" as well as that one of "classy"

Me, I'd try to get as far away from Lux as possible but if forced to do it I'd easily have to say the GS300 in here.
 
Sniffs
*chuckle* i see insurance premiums are as bad in the UK as to rates as they are over here...where it seems that anything with less than 4 doors, or more than 4 cylinders is considered a sports car, and anything with LESS than 4 cylinders is considered a road hazard :P

Cars are placed into one of 20 insurance groups, based on list value, power and engine capacity. Only the Citroen 2CV is group 1 and anything quicker than ~155mph is going to group 20.

This forms the basis for an insurance calculation. It is then altered by several factors relating to the car (typical cost/severity of accident in that car, cost of repair claims - if the car shares many parts with sister vehicles then it's likely to be cheaper - vehicle security), the driver(s) (age, previous incidents, previous driving offences, job, family ties) and the location of the car (incidence of car thefts/damage while parked in that area, security of locations vehicle is parked [driveway, garage, street]).


Sniffs
does the UK have a bare minimum rate? like liability only?

We have "Third Party" - insurance which covers anyone else you mash, but will not pay for your own damage or legal/medical bills.
 
heh...talk to your national insurers about "no fault" versions

sometimes I wonder wether american rates are calculated based soely on the gender and age of the licenced driver...
 
No such thing.

We have three basic grades:
Third Party: Insurers pay out to anyone you hit, but not you.
Third Party, Fire and Theft (TPFT): Insurers pay out to anyone you hit, but not you unless your car is stolen or damaged/destroyed by fire.
Fully Comprehensive: Anything that happens, you're covered for. Except damage to your car by chemical, biological or radiological warfare, riot conditions, "Acts of God" or a strike from an aircraft. I'm not making this up.

Third Party is cheapest. Fully Comprehensive is most expensive. I have paid £325 (£304 plus an extra option I chose to have) to cover my group 14 car for the next 12 months, fully comprehensive. This is pretty good.
 
Our supra is only group 14 & that does at least 155mph! Insurance groups are stupid!
A cossie we looked at before is just as expensive as a ferrari to insure simply
because it was deemed a "boy racer" car. they arent that quick.

Old Luxury cars are easy to get cheap now with low(ish) miles. And besides most of the will run for at least 200k miles.

Our last car got nicked once it was classed as "off the road" so it didnt matter about our insurance. & the bikes he used to own was like 25-30 years ago!
 
mabey if they'd hauled the Cosworth guys over here for escort and the americanized Mondeo, mabey we wouldn't be stuck with these only slightly more interesting Foci :P

PS...current rates
92 Taurus LX, airbags and antilocks...700+ a year
91 Blazer Tahoe, ABS, no 'bags...900 a year
and that's at liability only, no deductable, for a 32 year old male...i was accidentally listed as female. my real name is automatically associated with a dumb blond, even in the business world.
 
Sniffs
...i was accidentally listed as female. my real name is automatically associated with a dumb blond, even in the business world.

Sniffs is a women's name in the US? :dunce:
 
Well i'm sorry, but we own the car and insure it so we should know what the insurance is, and our Supra is Insurance group 14. So less of the sarchasm mate, we own the car, a book/guide dosent. Anyway insurance groups mean nothing, all insurance companies charge different rates.
I have noticed parker to be often wrong, especially as the supra has way more BHP than that as well!

Oh and by the way just to clarify, i checked & my dad has unlimited no claims. Meaning insurance much cheaper (i know this dosent effect the group).
 
555
Well i'm sorry, but we own the car and insure it so we should know what the insurance is, and our Supra is Insurance group 14. So less of the sarchasm mate, we own the car, a book/guide dosent. Anyway insurance groups mean nothing, all insurance companies charge different rates.
I have noticed parker to be often wrong, especially as the supra has way more BHP than that as well!

Your Supra has "way more" power than that? Then it is modified or in import - no wonder you have trouble insuring it.

Find me one source which says that any MkIII Toyota Supra is group 14.


555
Oh and by the way just to clarify, i checked & my dad has unlimited no claims. Meaning insurance much cheaper (i know this dosent effect the group).

So why does he have trouble insuring the Supra then?

What the photon is "unlimited" no claims? That's one of the biggest loads I've ever heard. Is he infinite years old?
 
When did i say we have trouble insuring the supra!??
Well you can ask our insurance company if you want. They say its group 14 & we are not going to argue with them 👍

Its not imported or modified and according to some sources standard Supra's are about 220hp. Everywhere varies on what they say.

This thread isnt suppost to be about our (now off-the-road) Supra anyways. I dont say your lying about what your insurance is or whatever do i!?? so why you hasslin' me! hmm hmm hmm.

Unlimited (or maybe you know it as "maximum") no claims means you never lose your no claims bonus (or something like that) When your 52 and you havent claimed on your insruance for 20-30 years then maybe you'll get it. Well you need hear more stuff mate. Cause its real!
 
555
When did i say we have trouble insuring the supra!??

555
according to what i read, the impreza was group 14, same as el' Supra! I would imagine they are expensive to insure,

555
Well you can ask our insurance company if you want. They say its group 14 & we are not going to argue with them 👍

Do they really? No insurance company has ever told me what group my car is - because it fundamentally doesn't matter. Insurance groups are rule of thumb - everything else is what matters. Take the Group 20 Audi A8 4.2 V8 and the Group 20 Impreza WR1. I'd pay £400 for the first, yet I wouldn't be able to insure the second.

555
Its not imported or modified and according to some sources standard Supra's are about 220hp. Everywhere varies on what they say.

So now you're arguing that your Supra is actually LESS powerful than the ones in the link I gave you to Parkers, at 234hp, having just argued that it has "way more BHP than that".

Which is it?


555
This thread isnt suppost to be about our (now off-the-road) Supra anyways. I dont say your lying about what your insurance is or whatever do i!?? so why you hasslin' me! hmm hmm hmm.

Because you contradict yourself from post to post and then use mysterious, unseen sources to "prove" your information.

Show me evidence that your Supra is group 14. Show me evidence that any Impreza is group 14. I've shown you evidence that your Supra is group 17 and that Impreza Turbos are group 17-20.

And then show me evidence of your claim below:


555
Unlimited (or maybe you know it as "maximum") no claims means you never lose your no claims bonus (or something like that)

No, it doesn't.

"Maximum" no claims means that you have the maximum amount of NCD that the insurer offers a discount for, though may have more. This is usually 5 years (which usually accounts for 60% discount). I have maximum NCD with my current insurers, because I have 5 years' worth. I actually have 7 years' worth, but the extra two years get me no additional benefit.

When you "never lose your no claims bonus", that is called "Protected" or "Guaranteed" No Claims. I ALSO have this, and it's not something which you have, but something which you pay for. I have 5 years NCD. If I crash and make a claim I lose 2/3 years of it (depending on the insurer). So I pay a little extra - £15 - for my NCD to be Protected, meaning that if I have a crash and make a claim I do not lose ANY of it. You can make up to 3 claims in any one policy period with Protected NCD and not lose any of your NCD. "Guaranteed" is similar but allows you to gain a year's NCD even if you make a claim during that period.

So, I ask you again. What is "Unlimited no claims"?


555
Well you need hear more stuff mate. Cause its real!

Not from what you've said so far it isn't.

Incidentally, when proving to me that your dad has "unlimited" NCD, you'll probably want to scan or photograph his insurance policy. Please take every care to erase his name, address, phone number and car registration from the image.
 
Unlimited no claims is the same as Protected no claims, its just a different name for it thats all.

All insurance companies are different and ours said it was 14, dont ask me why, but they did, maybe they got it wrong, but thats what we were told.

We dont have the turbo Supra, i never said we did, according to parkers thing it says (our supra) only has 184bhp, thats what i was saying is wrong, we have got way more power than that. If we havent then its blumin quick for 184bhp!!!

No you have shown me evidence my dads Supra is group 16! Do you really think im going to put an insurance cert on here!?? Look, does it matter?? I never said for definate Impreza's are grp 14 insurance, i just said what i read/heard is that they wernt, thats all. Oh and no offence, but i don't have to prove jack to you ok. At first this banter was funny, now its just silly!

When have i contradicted myself?? Tell me where i have and i will apologise.
 
LOL @ Cracker
like I use my real name in here...any more than a lot of you do. I just don't use a car associated one, and there's no Icon in the list I wanna use for an Icon :P

the insurance rate discussion: good lord, what a confusing mess...you guys need to really have a pamphlet published with a list or something so you can get things simplified. at least yours is simpler compared to american rates, which vry according to each company that provides insurance coverage as well. and I believe they also prvide insurance rates by the car colour over here as well.
 
555
Unlimited no claims is the same as Protected no claims, its just a different name for it thats all.

So, given that you PAY EXTRA to protect your no claims, how is the following true?

555
i checked & my dad has unlimited no claims. Meaning insurance much cheaper

I await your reply with interest.

555
When have i contradicted myself?? Tell me where i have and i will apologise.

Amongst other things, where I have quoted you at the start of this post.

555
Oh and no offence, but i don't have to prove jack to you ok.

Thought not. :rolleyes:
 
Tra-la-la la. God this is getting boring!

Await my reply with sarchasm is more what you said. Hey, is it my car i am talking about here?? no, i am repeating to you information i am told ok.

And i still cant see were i have contradicted myself. Wait, let me check.................. I havent!

Thought not!? Thought not what? I dont have to prove anything to you, i know i am right and thats all that matters (to me) :sly: Im not going to post insurance documents on the net, for god sake man, have some sense!

Are you gonna stop all this silly bickering (spelling?) or are you going to keep going any/every time i say something that you think is ever so slightly incorrect!? :ouch:
 
If you keep shovelling BS, I'll keep on at you. Bad information is bad.

555
And i still cant see were i have contradicted myself. Wait, let me check.................. I havent!

Rrrrright. Let's just go over this again, since you seem to be having a little trouble with it.

555
i checked & my dad has unlimited no claims. Meaning insurance much cheaper
555
Unlimited no claims is the same as Protected no claims, its just a different name for it thats all.

As I pointed out to you, Protected No Claims is an EXTRA service which you PAY for. So PNCD cannot make insurance cheaper in any way. This means that your two sentences contradict each other.

PNCD is also not gained with time, as you implied here:


555
Unlimited (or maybe you know it as "maximum") no claims means you never lose your no claims bonus (or something like that) When your 52 and you havent claimed on your insruance for 20-30 years then maybe you'll get it.

So, as of yet you still haven't defined for me what "Unlimited no claims" is, or how it makes insurance cheaper.

555
Im not going to post insurance documents on the net, for god sake man, have some sense!

I wonder what the cryptic meaning of the underlined text below could be:

Famine
Incidentally, when proving to me that your dad has "unlimited" NCD, you'll probably want to scan or photograph his insurance policy. Please take every care to erase his name, address, phone number and car registration from the image.

All I want to see is an insurance document which says "Unlimited No Claims" on it. I suspect you've actually read the part which says "Mileage: Unlimited", which is very common indeed (and, incidentally, increases your insurance premium).
 
I am not shoveling "BS" as you put it, i am telling you facts from my end. I am starting to get a bit miffed (i want to swear but i wont) with you my friend, at first this was just funny now your just being annoying.

Thats still not contradicting myself, thats me saying something that you think is wrong.

Having PNCB makes insurance cheaper because....... you have maximum no claims bonus!! therefore insurance is cheaper. Thats the point of having NCB so that insurance is cheaper, it would kind of pointless having it otherwise.

Ok i was wrong about the "earning" of the no claims bonus. But it was the way i worded it (my fault, i can admit i am wrong unlike you). You do indeed by "protected" NCB, but you still have to earn money to pay for it.

I dont care what you say, and i know you said about blacking out information. I am not posting an insurance document on the internet. Especially to simply prove a silly little matter like this.

Oh and stop being sarchastic with me, its just making you look even more immature by arguing with someone over such a silly little thing as this. Now are you going to stop being soooo boring!??
 
555
Thats still not contradicting myself, thats me saying something that you think is wrong.

Having PNCB makes insurance cheaper because....... you have maximum no claims bonus!! therefore insurance is cheaper. Thats the point of having NCB so that insurance is cheaper, it would kind of pointless having it otherwise.

No. Having PNCB does NOT make insurance cheaper. It fundamentally makes insurance more expensive, because you pay for it. PNCB is available from 3 years' NCB upwards.

Example: My insurance with 7 years' NCB is £280. My insurance with 7 years' NCB protected is £304. PNCB has made my insurance £24 more expensive.

PNCB is an additional service, not a benefit for being good.


555
(my fault, i can admit i am wrong unlike you)

And I've been wrong... where?

555
I dont care what you say, and i know you said about blacking out information. I am not posting an insurance document on the internet. Especially to simply prove a silly little matter like this.

Especially because there seems to be no proof - just an error on your behalf.

Let me know which insurance company it is. I will verify the existence, or otherwise, of "Unlimited No Claims Bonus" myself.


555
Oh and stop being sarchastic with me, its just making you look even more immature by arguing with someone over such a silly little thing as this. Now are you going to stop being soooo boring!??

I have only been sarcastic once. This was indicated by the :rolleyes: smiley. I have otherwise been serious in this thread. If it's "such a silly little thing", why are you so reticent to provide any proof of ANYTHING you've said (group 14 Supra, group 14 Impreza, "Unlimited No Claims Bonus")?

I'm also not arguing. I simply want evidence of a claim you've made which I suspect to be fallacious. Pick one of the three I listed in parentheses above. Any one. Incidentally, arguments take two people. If you're bored of this, stop replying.


As a further aside, why did you start this thread at all, asking for advice, when you've thus far ignored everyone's advice?
 
Sooooo tiring!

If having PNCB dosent make insurance cheaper, then whats the point of it??

You've been wrong about my Supra, everytime you quoted something you was quoting specs for the turbo, which we do not own and never said that we did.

You been sarchastic a few more times than once, i think. But unlike you, i am not sad enough to go back and quote everything everytime you say something.

I dont recall saying you are wrong about Impreza (turbo's) being Grp 20, i simply said that i read (in one place!) that it said they was Grp 14.

I havent ignored people's advice. I'm ignoring advice about cars that we do not want (like the A8). I have taken on bored all the advice told to me about not getting a cheap Impreza etc etc.

I plan to stop replying in the near future, but i have to get my points across, i'm not going to back down over things i know are correct, or things i have read. You may well be right (about some things) that dosent mean, is it my fault if what i have read is incorrect?? No. But i do know for a fact that the Toyota Supra 3.0i that my dad (was) insured on is group 14. ok! 👍
 
555
Sooooo tiring!

If having PNCB dosent make insurance cheaper, then whats the point of it??

It allows you to make an insurance claim in the period for which you are insured and not lose 3 years' worth of NCB you would lose if it weren't protected.

So Protecting - or Guaranteeing - your NCB costs you money, making your insurance marginally more expensive in the short term, but potentially stopping it becoming much more expensive in the long term.

NCB makes insurance cheaper (to a point - 10 years NCB is no different than 5 years at most insurers). Protecting it does not. It is a service which you buy into.

But that STILL doesn't explain what "Unlimited" no claims is. Still, if you'd just let me know which insurer it is, I can verify it for myself.


555
You've been wrong about my Supra, everytime you quoted something you was quoting specs for the turbo, which we do not own and never said that we did.

Actually, my initial link was to a page which had both NA and Turbo MkIII Supras. You then stated that your Supra has "way more BHP" than the ones on the link. You also stated that it "does at least 155mph!" which is approximately 10mph quicker than the top speed of the turbo model.

Operating on the assumption that you were telling the truth, this could only mean that you had a turbo, or a modified version. You then stated that it was not modified and had 220hp - which, again, assuming you were telling the truth, could only mean that you had the turbo version.


Given that you now state that you (by which I mean your father) have a naturally aspirated version, your claims that it has "way more BHP" and "does at least 155mph" are both in error, unless your claim that it is not modified is in error.


555
I dont recall saying you are wrong about Impreza (turbo's) being Grp 20

That's a good job, because I didn't actually say that. I said that they are Group 20, except those which aren't, but they effectively are due to massive premiums and conditions of insurance.

555
i simply said that i read (in one place!) that it said they was Grp 14.

I plan to stop replying in the near future, but i have to get my points across, i'm not going to back down over things i know are correct, or things i have read. You may well be right (about some things) that dosent mean, is it my fault if what i have read is incorrect?? No.

And yet you cannot provide evidence of the places where you read these things. THIS is the problem.

All I have asked for is that you TELL me where you read these things, so that I (or any other reader) may verify them myself. Nothing more. But you refuse to do this. This leads anyone reading the thread to assume that you are making things up - and yet for some reason you see me, the person who is trying to help you out by getting you to provide evidence of your claims so that you DON'T look like a liar, as someone to argue with.

What I'd like to know:
  • Where did you read that an Impreza (any Impreza) was iG14?
  • Where did you read that a Supra (any Supra) was iG14?
  • Which company insured the Supra?

555
But i do know for a fact that the Toyota Supra 3.0i that my dad (was) insured on is group 14. ok! 👍

Yes. That's great and all, but how is it that you know this as a fact? Insurance companies tend not to state insurance groups on their customers' documentation (though your insurance company may be different, but you haven't told me who they are yet). Since you didn't insure the car - it was your father - it is reasonable to assume that you didn't speak to the insurers regarding this matter. So where did it come from?
 
I said a Supra, not a turbo, you assumed a turbo, which i never said. I know your link is for all Supra's but it was you who was assuming i was on about a turbo.

I cant tell you the name of the insurance compant because i don't know it. And i have told you anyway, that unlimited is the same as proteced, so WTF does it matter!? Just let it go man, its the same thing.

The more NCB you have, the cheaper insurance is. correct?!

Well whatever you said about Impreza's you have confused me. Now your saying there not Group20?? Now who is contradicting themselves.

How many times, i didnt read the supra was Group14, i was told. My dad told me after i asked him and he asked the insuracne company, we was simply curious & we was suprised at how low it was. OK.

I read that an impreza was Group14 on an advert on AutoTrader:
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WW...&miles=40&max_records=50&modelexact=1&photo=1

Sorry for the hugely long address, but check these, one even says one is group 13! I know its an advert and they very well (can) lie, but this is were i read it & i never said it was correct.

I never said it was on the documentation, have you read my posts properly?? Read above, they told us when asked over the phone.

I have answered all your Q's and provided (as much) proof as i can. Now are you going to stop hasslin' me!? Or am i just going to have to stop replying to you?
 
Firstly, I'd remove that link if I were you. Autotrader links contain your postcode (or at least the postcode you used to do the search with). If you already know this and put a fake one in, then great.

555
Well whatever you said about Impreza's you have confused me. Now your saying there not Group20?? Now who is contradicting themselves.

Not me. Look at the two instances I referred to Impreza insurance groups:

Famine
But all turbo Imprezas are group 20 (well... sort of. Those that aren't effectively are) and, unless they have a Cat 1. alarm, immobiliser, anti-hijack system, steering wheel lock and Tracker and are kept in a locked, alarmed garage for 364 days of the year you can forget about insuring one.

Famine
I said that they are Group 20, except those which aren't, but they effectively are due to massive premiums and conditions of insurance.

See?

555
I cant tell you the name of the insurance compant because i don't know it. And i have told you anyway, that unlimited is the same as proteced, so WTF does it matter!? Just let it go man, its the same thing.

Because it isn't. I know of no insurance company which uses anything other than the industry-standard "Protected" and "Guaranteed" terms to describe this service, and I know of no insurance company which uses the term "Unlimited" in relation to No Claims.

And even if it were the same thing, it contradicts your claim that your father's insurance is cheaper because he has "unlimited no claims". His insurance is cheaper because he has no claims, like most other people, and not because it is protected. In fact at most insurance companies his quotes would be no different to mine, all other things being equal, as we have the same amount of allowed no claims discount (5 years maximum - any extra is NOT taken into account) - though our ages, locations, vehicle use, accident history, endorsement history, career, marital status and so on would of course mean our quotes are incredibly unlikely to be anywhere near the same.


555
The more NCB you have, the cheaper insurance is. correct?!

Up to that company's maximum NCB (usually 5 years), yes.

555
How many times, i didnt read the supra was Group14, i was told. My dad told me after i asked him and he asked the insuracne company, we was simply curious & we was suprised at how low it was. OK.

Ooookay. So now it's your dad that told you, after speaking to a company who you've never spoken to and, in fact, don't know the name of? Do me a favour - you have no first hand evidence of anything now. The Impreza is group 14 because someone told you. The Supra was group 14 because someone told you after someone else allegedly told them. Your dad has an insurance product which doesn't seem to exist from a company you've don't know and does the opposite of what you claim it does - though oddly you only claimed this after checking:

555
Oh and by the way just to clarify, i checked & my dad has unlimited no claims. Meaning insurance much cheaper (i know this dosent effect the group).

Do me a favour. Ask him who supplies him with car insurance. Then you WILL know who the company is. And then I can verify this for you.
 
Do me a favour, stop replying. I am, you just repeating yourself & im not going to keep answering the same questions over & over.
 
555
Do me a favour, stop replying. I am, you just repeating yourself & im not going to keep answering the same questions over & over.
And with that, considering you're not doing much of a job discussing this, have no control over what car your dad buys, and aren't listening to anybody anyway, I'm putting this thread out of our misery.
 
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