Help with audio gear upgrade.

[Shaun]

I'm thinking of upgrading my audio gear but since I haven't done it for a long time (about 8 years) I feel a bit out of the loop.

My current gear is this Pioneer receiver and these Canton speakers.

Both have served me well and are still working fine. When I bought my current speakers we were more limited for space than we are currently. My preference though would be bookshelf size for new fronts not floorstanding speakers.
I'm happy enough with sound of my current speakers for movies but they are lacking when it comes to music which brings me to my plan of attack.

I'm willing to pay up to $1000 for a new receiver and the same for a pair of speakers and stick with the leftover current speakers until I again get the urge to upgrade the remaining speakers. I would prefer though to split the purchases over a few months to save some pain in the wallet.

So which do you guys think I should get first?
And can you recommend any gear in that price range to get me on my way?
Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Shaun.

 

[wfooshee]

I'm kind of in the same boat receiver-wise, although my speakers will be removed over my cold, dead body.

I have an 8 or 9 year old Kenwood 5.1 receiver, 4 digital inputs (2 optical, 2 coax.) I never used it for video switching because its best video was S-Video, so no HD inputs.

I just got a 51" plasma TV and connected the cable box and PS3 to it via HDMI, PS2 via component, intending to use the optical digital out from the TV to the receiver, and use the TV input as my switcher for cable, PS2, PS3. Well, it turns out that the digital out on the TV is only stereo, not 5.1, unless the TV tuner is used. Other sources in, stereo out. I can't fathom what's so hard about taking 5.1 in and putting 5.1 out, but it must have something to do with copyright protection on the HDMI, which I didn't anticipate.

So now I've rewired everything, HDMI still goes from the cable box and PS3 to the TV, but the audio from those goes to separate receiver inputs, coax from the cable, optical from the PS3. Another optical from the PS2 to the receiver. Now I have a nightmare of remote-juggling, and my receiver doesn't have the feature of naming the inputs, so the cable is DVD/6-ch, the PS3 is Vid3, and the PS2 is Vid1. Also, none of the sound levels match, so selecting PS3 after cable results in a VERY loud sound in the room, and of course going the other way makes the cable inaudible.

So HDMI/Component switching is in my future. Throw everything into the receiver and use the TV as a simple monitor, rather than having to select source inputs on both the TV and the Receiver and find the right remotes. I'm not sure if input type has to match output type on the receivers, though, i.e. will it send a component input out to the TV on HDMI?

My speakers are JBL L100s, from the 1970s, but I have yet to hear a better speaker for the size. They're short on bass as far as modern "music" and movies go, but I have a subwoofer for that.

As for suggestions, I saw my local Best Buy (no help to you, I guess) had some Yamaha receivers on sale, up to 6 HDMI inputs.

 

[bevo]

I think your best bet on the reciever would be to look for a used pioneer elite AVR with an ice amp in it. Pioneer makes some of the best AVRs on the market in the price range you are looking at. Really you can't go wrong with them or Denon. I have a denon 1909 now, but wish I would have got a step up, because I have no way to hook an external amp up to it for more power.

I would suggest that whatever you get as far as a receiver goes you try and make it a little future proof. Try and get one that has the ability to hook an external amp up to it in case you get the upgrade bug one day.
Also try and get one that has automatic speaker calibration. It will setup you levels and distance just by placing the microphone that comes with it at your listening position.

In all honesty if you are only wanting to use smaller bookshelf size speakers you will only need one that does about 90 watts per channel and could probably get a really nice AVR with all the features you want for around 500$. just go on the pioneer and denon sites and check out the spec sheets and you can't go wrong.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Mid-to-high-end Pioneer kit is very good, but generally has a bright sound that can be wearing in a movie-length listen, especially if you've got bright speakers. Otherwise, look at Denon - they've got great coverage in the middle of the market. If you're buying used, make sure your receiver does HDMI switching and decodes DTS-HD. Amps with HDMI 1.4 support can do audio-return from your TV, so you can run off-air broadcasts or internet TV sound through your sound system.

Do you have a decent sub in your setup? If not, look there to spend your cash.

 

[Shaun]

I have an 8 or 9 year old Kenwood 5.1 receiver, 4 digital inputs (2 optical, 2 coax.) I never used it for video switching because its best video was S-Video, so no HD inputs.

I just got a 51" plasma TV and connected the cable box and PS3 to it via HDMI, PS2 via component, intending to use the optical digital out from the TV to the receiver, and use the TV input as my switcher for cable, PS2, PS3. Well, it turns out that the digital out on the TV is only stereo, not 5.1, unless the TV tuner is used. Other sources in, stereo out. I can't fathom what's so hard about taking 5.1 in and putting 5.1 out, but it must have something to do with copyright protection on the HDMI, which I didn't anticipate.

I had the same problem with my tv, but because my receiver only has 1 optical and 1 coax input my only way around it was to use an optical splitter/selector switch.

HDMI from PS3 and Blu Ray player to tv for video, and optical from both again to splitter and then into receiver for sound when I want to run the audio through the receiver.

Also an optical cable from tv out to splitter for the very rare occasion that I want to watch something broadcast on the tv through the receiver.

I think your best bet on the reciever would be to look for a used pioneer elite AVR with an ice amp in it. Pioneer makes some of the best AVRs on the market in the price range you are looking at. Really you can't go wrong with them or Denon. I have a denon 1909 now, but wish I would have got a step up, because I have no way to hook an external amp up to it for more power.

I will have a look at these AVR's. Thanks 👍
Question though, when you say hook up an external amp for more power do you mean to get more volume?
In all honesty I'm happy with volume from my current setup and I won't be moving house in the foreseeable future. What I'm really after is an improvement in sound quality especially for music.

Mid-to-high-end Pioneer kit is very good, but generally has a bright sound that can be wearing in a movie-length listen, especially if you've got bright speakers. Otherwise, look at Denon - they've got great coverage in the middle of the market. If you're buying used, make sure your receiver does HDMI switching and decodes DTS-HD. Amps with HDMI 1.4 support can do audio-return from your TV, so you can run off-air broadcasts or internet TV sound through your sound system.

Do you have a decent sub in your setup? If not, look there to spend your cash.

My current sub is the one in the link from first post, so no it's nothing special. All it has is individual volume controls and crossover setting. What you see (and hear for that matter) is what you get.

DTS-HD is on the shopping list. Is Dolby True HD also a current standard and is there any others I should be looking for?


Thanks for the input guys. 👍
I've been looking on the net for the last couple of days and there is alot of gear out there. The only way I think I'll know what suits my needs it spend a couple of weekends and take some cd's and listen to some gear instore.
My first objective is to improve the audio quality for music which tells me to buy speakers first. If this requires getting floorstanding units I will, my preference for bookshelf speakers is aesthetic only. I do also want better sound for movies as well though.
Unfortunately life is full of compromises and for me this is one.
If I had unlimited funds and space (I have neither) I would get an amp specifically for music, most likely of the valve variety.

Cheers Shaun.

 

[Dracwolley]

I would probably go in the opposite direction that you are, and get old speakers. As of last week, I have a set of JBL L50s for $20 worth of foam surrounds, and they are quite wonderful, especially after a bit of EQ work. Just hunt Craigslist and eBay for speakers from the 70s and 80s in need of a refoam, and you can often find very good deals on very good speakers. All you need to do from there is buy a repair kit (i got mine here) and you're good to go. Most of the speakers that have lasted this long are quite good.
As for surround sound, you can probably get away with using your previous speakers for the other 3 channels - you probably won't notice that much of a difference so long as your L and R speakers are good.
Another plus is that often the old speakers often have very good bass because not many systems had a subwoofer. So you probably won't need one, especially if you have an EQ set to the equal-loudness as is explained in my link above.

Here are my L50s: http://cl.ly/7sVv
If you can get a pair of these you should be in great shape.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Well, that should teach me to click through to the links.

I think your speakers are your system's weak point. The uneven response in the 700-2000Hz range is probably what's causing music to sound awful.

There's also an extensive middle ground between the satellite speakers you have and floorstanders, although since you'll need to put bookshelf speakers on stands you may choose to go the floorstanding route.

But, as inspiration to your search, I present these selections:

For front left & right and rear left & right, these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290201

Front centre: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290106

Sub: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290130

Total cost: $499.84

This gives you overhead to sort yourself out with some decent stands. Newegg isn't long on brands that I've got experience of, but I seem to recall people talking highly of Polk. Essentially, get a matched set of bookshelfs for the front & rear, spend a little more on the centre, and no less than 30% of your total speaker budget on the sub (up to a sub cost of around $1300, assumes 5.1 speaker system).

 

[Shaun]

Thanks again for the input guys. 👍

After alot of hours looking and listening over the weekend I bought a pair of these today.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/600_Series/685.html

When played direct to cut out all the other speakers and subwoofer they have an amazing crisp sound and enough bass for my type of music, so that's the music part of my speaker quest sorted.
Down the track i'll upgrade the rears and centre (probably from this line of speakers) for movies.

Cheers Shaun.


Edit: I forgot to mention that I hit a big speedhump buying these speakers, namely my wife. Apparently the most important asset of a speaker is how they look , sound is a minor factor in determining said purchase.
It took some effort on my behalf to have this purchase approved based on the look factor. The perfect speaker in my wifes book is one that isn't seen.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Ha ha ha ha ha!!! And an LOL too.

I'm a real B&W fanboy. Love love love their kit. I've got a pair of DM602S3s, a Zeppelin, and a 7.1 system using in-walls/in-ceilings and their PV-1 sub.

Welcome to the B&W club!

 

[Shaun]

Another update.

So much for the a couple of months in between purchases theory.
I've been called out for work for the last four nights, which to put it simply means I've made a crapload of money for a small amount of work time put in. This has given me two things.

1. Extra cash.
2. Time at home during the day. (to spend extra cash )

So off shopping I went and came home with one of these.

http://www.audioproducts.com.au/ProductInfo.aspx?pid=AVR1911BK

A friend of mine also has one and after playing around with it at his place I thought one should meet my needs ok.
After a day of setting up and playing around with the settings I'm quite chuffed with the results.

Combined with my recent speaker purchase the difference to my old setup is amazing. Musically I'm very satisfied and movies/gaming are doing fine.
I've heard some sounds in GT5 that I didn't know existed.

Knowing myself though in a couple of months a new centre and sub will be on my shopping list, certainly from the B&W range. The more cd's I listen to, the more these things (for the money) amaze me.

Cheers Shaun.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Shaun... Seriously, save up for the PV-1. It'll shake the walls, and it's smaller than a beach ball. It's worthy every one of the considerable stack of pennies you'll require to purchase it.

 

[Shaun]

I've pretty much decided the PV-1 will be sub to get.

It's just a matter of time, I'll hold off for a bit.
No need to give the wife minister of finance heart palpitations.

Cheers Shaun.