Here is a dilemma.

[McLaren]

If the V5 paper says the car is a manual, then in the eyes of the DVLA it's a manual. If the owner ignores this and for some reason gets stopped by the Police and the case goes to court because of the issue, then i suppose the driver could have a reasonable chance of arguing the point. However i'd much rather spend £30 and an hour or so out of my life just to take the test again in a manual car. Anyone who is old enough to be able to afford a Ferrari 360 and the insurance should be more than competent enough to sail through another drivers test. If they are worried that they won't then perhaps a Ferrari 360 isn't the best choice of car for them.

Oh, I completely agree. I was just saying how the DVLA could classify it as such by the way Ferrari markets it. I wasn't posting it as an argument for the guy to use against the DLVA.

 

[seanyb505]

I wish i had the problem of whether or not to buy a Ferrari

 

[Raitziger]

well cars are overpriced in some countries due taxation or something else. In Germany you can get used 360 starting from 50k€. Here in Finland prices are around 150k€ for similar car. Importing wont change much as 360 would be hit with heavy co2 tax and double that cos car has too low power-to-weight ratio and is a sports car.

I sold my volvo 1800s and will replace it with something newer like cayman s(pdk), z4 coupe, 135i or a s2000

 

[seanyb505]

Yeah theyre a little more in the US, but I still wish I had that kind of money floating around. Right now Chase credit cards wishes I had that kind of money floating around.

 

[SteveO1965]

I wish i had the problem of whether or not to buy a Ferrari

It is not that hard of a problem to come by lol, I currently know of some bargains at the moment, a 328 GTS for 15,000 UK pounds, a 308 for 10,000, people see someone driving a 355 and think wow he must be rich, a good 355 can be bought for less than a top range 3 series BMW.

 

[Famine]

On the late side, but a police answer:

s.2

(b) “vehicle with automatic transmission” means a vehicle in which either—
(i) the driver is not provided with any means whereby he may vary the gear ratio
between the engine and the road wheels independently of the accelerator and the
brakes, or
(ii) he is provided with such means but they do not include a clutch pedal or lever which
he may operate manually,
(and accordingly, a vehicle with manual transmission is any other class of vehicle)

So, since he is provided with the means to change the gearing, but not a clutch pedal or lever, it's valid for an automatic licence.

 

[McLaren]

It is not that hard of a problem to come by lol, I currently know of some bargains at the moment, a 328 GTS for 15,000 UK pounds, a 308 for 10,000, people see someone driving a 355 and think wow he must be rich, a good 355 can be bought for less than a top range 3 series BMW.

The thing is that you'll want a good PPI on the car. The older Ferrari's aren't cheap to maintain if they've got some problems.

 

[SteveO1965]

On the late side, but a police answer:



So, since he is provided with the means to change the gearing, but not a clutch pedal or lever, it's valid for an automatic licence.

Thank you mate that is good to know.

The thing is that you'll want a good PPI on the car. The older Ferrari's aren't cheap to maintain if they've got some problems.

Yes a PPI is a must on these cars, actually the 308-328 cars are cheaper to maintain than say a current Ford, anyone competent enough with a spanner can do they're own maintenance on these cars.

Pic below of me in the 355 that is cheaper to buy now than a 3 series BMW, and over a three year period cheaper to run than a Ford Mondeo 👍

 

[McLaren]

They may be cheaper to run, but I'm pointing out what happens when problems arise. The clutch is one of the first things to go on some of these older cars, and you could be looking at $3K+ for even the most minimal of problems.

 

[BayConRong]

Lol i'm glad I don't have to jump through those kind of hoops to drive a manual with my liceanse. Here if you get a drivers liceanse you can drive anything you want to except Semi trucks

 

[Eric.]

Thank you mate that is good to know.


Yes a PPI is a must on these cars, actually the 308-328 cars are cheaper to maintain than say a current Ford, anyone competent enough with a spanner can do they're own maintenance on these cars.

Pic below of me in the 355 that is cheaper to buy now than a 3 series BMW, and over a three year period cheaper to run than a Ford Mondeo 👍

I don't believe one bit of that. Your local auto parts dealer isn't going to have his shelves stocked with 80's Ferrari parts. Those are gonna come from Ferrari or an Italian specialist. Part prices are going to be through the roof in comparison to your "pricey" Ford.

And for the second argument, I don't even know what you're thinking would be cheaper than owning the Mondeo. The Ferrari will use more gas, will need semi-occasional tuneups (more than a mainstream car), and will have higher insurance.

So how do you figure any of this?

 

[SteveO1965]

They may be cheaper to run, but I'm pointing out what happens when problems arise. The clutch is one of the first things to go on some of these older cars, and you could be looking at $3K+ for even the most minimal of problems.

Mate that would be main dealer prices and costs, there are hundreds of specialist garages that could supply and fit these parts for a fraction of the cost of a main dealer

I don't believe one bit of that. Your local auto parts dealer isn't going to have his shelves stocked with 80's Ferrari parts. Those are gonna come from Ferrari or an Italian specialist. Part prices are going to be through the roof in comparison to your "pricey" Ford.

And for the second argument, I don't even know what you're thinking would be cheaper than owning the Mondeo. The Ferrari will use more gas, will need semi-occasional tuneups (more than a mainstream car), and will have higher insurance.

So how do you figure any of this?

So you don't believe me that is a pretty strong thing to say why would i have to buy the parts from Ferrari or an Italian specialist? google Euro spares you will be amazed at how cheap you can pick up spares for these cars for.

So you have experience here then, it is not what i was thinking but what i know to be fact, over three years the Ferrari covered 10,000 miles, the Mondeo 90,000 miles, the Mondeo was purchased new and in three years more was spent on this car in servicing than the Ferrari, more was spent on fuel for the Mondeo than the Ferrari giving obviously the difference in mileage covered, and here is the killer the insurance, Mondeo 1,200 a year to insure, the 355 800 a year

 

[Azuremen]

How would a LHD car help him any?

Oh my. I need to stop posting at 3am.

For some reason, in my sleep deprived madness, I thought everything was switched between RHD and LHD... so that the clutch was always the pedal closest to the door... completely forgot the pedals are Clutch - Brake - Gas from left to right regardless of RHD or LHD when I posted.

 

[SteveO1965]

Oh my. I need to stop posting at 3am.

For some reason, in my sleep deprived madness, I thought everything was switched between RHD and LHD... so that the clutch was always the pedal closest to the door... completely forgot the pedals are Clutch - Brake - Gas from left to right regardless of RHD or LHD when I posted.

LOL i was wondering what you meant, i normally do these type of posts when tired OR drunk lol so you are not on your own

 

[Jay]

Oh my. I need to stop posting at 3am.

For some reason, in my sleep deprived madness, I thought everything was switched between RHD and LHD... so that the clutch was always the pedal closest to the door... completely forgot the pedals are Clutch - Brake - Gas from left to right regardless of RHD or LHD when I posted.

Haha no problem, I had a feeling that might have been the case. When I am in the US I usually get a couple people asking me about that.

 

[McLaren]

Mate that would be main dealer prices and costs, there are hundreds of specialist garages that could supply and fit these parts for a fraction of the cost of a main dealer

Yeah, and guess where they make up for the cost? Labor.

And no, that is not the dealer price. That is the general cost of how much it costs to replace & repair minor parts. Any shop that tries to tell you they can fix your Ferrari at a quarter of the price of the dealer is either shady, has another way to squeeze money out of you, or is just plain ready to shoot themselves in the foot financially.

And I don't know why you would talk about buying spare parts for these cars. I certainly wouldn't buy a used part for my used Ferrari. I'd rather let the dealer just order new parts direct from the manufacturer.

 

[Eric.]

Mate that would be main dealer prices and costs, there are hundreds of specialist garages that could supply and fit these parts for a fraction of the cost of a main dealer


So you don't believe me that is a pretty strong thing to say why would i have to buy the parts from Ferrari or an Italian specialist? google Euro spares you will be amazed at how cheap you can pick up spares for these cars for.

So you have experience here then, it is not what i was thinking but what i know to be fact, over three years the Ferrari covered 10,000 miles, the Mondeo 90,000 miles, the Mondeo was purchased new and in three years more was spent on this car in servicing than the Ferrari, more was spent on fuel for the Mondeo than the Ferrari giving obviously the difference in mileage covered, and here is the killer the insurance, Mondeo 1,200 a year to insure, the 355 800 a year

You should have specified that the Ferrari would be driven 1/9th as much...Your previous post seemed like you were allowing all things to be equal (basically daily driving the 355 as you would the Mondeo).

But you're still saying that a random engine part for a 70's Ferrari is going to cost less than the same part that is still being produced for a current/late-model Ford?

 

[ExigeEvan]

Steve01965- Now that you mention the bargains, it sort of confirm what I've suspected about South Wales peeps snapping up the bargain cars released by the city bankers. I'm definetley seeing more Porsches and Astons driving around Swansea.

 

[SteveO1965]

Yeah, and guess where they make up for the cost? Labor.

And no, that is not the dealer price. That is the general cost of how much it costs to replace & repair minor parts. Any shop that tries to tell you they can fix your Ferrari at a quarter of the price of the dealer is either shady, has another way to squeeze money out of you, or is just plain ready to shoot themselves in the foot financially.

And I don't know why you would talk about buying spare parts for these cars. I certainly wouldn't buy a used part for my used Ferrari. I'd rather let the dealer just order new parts direct from the manufacturer.

I see your point here mate but you will be surprised at how many owners of older Ferrari's do buy used parts for their cars, Eurospares for example are sponsors of the biggest Ferrari forum on the net and do a great deal of business there.

Servicing whilst not cheap can be done at a fraction of the cost of a main dealer, a competent mechanic can work on these cars, after all it may be a Ferrari but when it comes down to it a car is just a car an engine just an engine and they all share basically the same components, lets take a 355 belt change for example one of the dearest things that the owner faces owning this car, a dealer will charge up to 10k for this job as it is an engine out procedure, i know of an owner who changed them himself, cost roughly 1k and a lot of skinned knuckles lol

You should have specified that the Ferrari would be driven 1/9th as much...Your previous post seemed like you were allowing all things to be equal (basically daily driving the 355 as you would the Mondeo).

But you're still saying that a random engine part for a 70's Ferrari is going to cost less than the same part that is still being produced for a current/late-model Ford?

I am sorry if my post misled you that was not my intention, obviously running the 355 on a daily basis as a first car would be a financial nightmare and not very viable, but i do not know of any owner who runs their Ferrari as a first car, i suppose i will have to agree about the engine part, obviously the Ferrari part is going to be more expensive but not by the margin you would expect.

What i am trying to get over to you guys is the fact that if your dream car is a Ferrari but the running costs are putting you off, Don'T let it, has a weekend 2nd car it will not be as expensive as you think.

Steve01965- Now that you mention the bargains, it sort of confirm what I've suspected about South Wales peeps snapping up the bargain cars released by the city bankers. I'm definetley seeing more Porsches and Astons driving around Swansea.

LOL i agree with you there, 911's in Swansea are more common than taxi's lol

 

[McLaren]

Servicing whilst not cheap can be done at a fraction of the cost of a main dealer, a competent mechanic can work on these cars, after all it may be a Ferrari but when it comes down to it a car is just a car an engine just an engine and they all share basically the same components, lets take a 355 belt change for example one of the dearest things that the owner faces owning this car, a dealer will charge up to 10k for this job as it is an engine out procedure, i know of an owner who changed them himself, cost roughly 1k and a lot of skinned knuckles lol

Woah, woah, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Ferrari's are not just another car, mate. You're talking about cars that when the clutch needs replacing, sometimes, the whole car must be broken apart to do so. With exotics, I never consider the engine just another engine. There's a big reason as to why the V8 & V12 developed by Ferrari cost more to fix than a 'Vette V8.

As for the owner, I've never read of an owner who did it themselves, but I hope he knew what he was doing. Ferrari requires their engines to be taken out for good reason; to insure a complete & well done job as well as an inspection for the part to make sure it'll run as intended.

BTW, since you speak of the 355 as an example, I'm sure you're familiar with the more common problem of the exhaust headers having issues or the valve guide failures. Moving on to other Ferrari's, you then encounter problems such as the differential being an issue among the Boxers, Testarossas, & 456's. These are issues I would honestly prefer the dealer to look at that than by someone who may claim they can do the job without engine removal or a procedure recommended by Ferrari.

 

[SteveO1965]

Woah, woah, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Ferrari's are not just another car, mate. You're talking about cars that when the clutch needs replacing, sometimes, the whole car must be broken apart to do so. With exotics, I never consider the engine just another engine. There's a big reason as to why the V8 & V12 developed by Ferrari cost more to fix than a 'Vette V8.

As for the owner, I've never read of an owner who did it themselves, but I hope he knew what he was doing. Ferrari requires their engines to be taken out for good reason; to insure a complete & well done job as well as an inspection for the part to make sure it'll run as intended.

BTW, since you speak of the 355 as an example, I'm sure you're familiar with the more common problem of the exhaust headers having issues or the valve guide failures. Moving on to other Ferrari's, you then encounter problems such as the differential being an issue among the Boxers, Testarossas, & 456's. These are issues I would honestly prefer the dealer to look at that than by someone who may claim they can do the job without engine removal or a procedure recommended by Ferrari.

I guess my words are coming out wrong, and i meant no offence sorry, obviously a Ferrari is not just a car that is why it is a dream for some people, there are some Ferrari's that if i owned i would always make sure it was dealer maintained, but i am referring to the older models IE 355 back.

I do not know whether you are aware of the site Ferrarichat? i have a friend there called Dale now he worked in one of the biggest Ferrari dealerships in Birmingham servicing these cars on a daily basis, he owns a 348 himself, Dale was made redundant from this dealership, he still works on these cars and to people such as this one engine is very much like another, he will work on a Fiesta in the morning and a Ferrari in the afternoon, i am not on about your average backstreet garage but about people such as Dale.

I am aware of the problems you refer to and the kraupy mis designed fuel lines in the 355, if i had these problems well yes then i would take it to a dealer to have them resolved.

I am not trying to cause bad feelings here just trying to point out that running a Ferrari need not be the financial nightmare like most people seem to think it is 👍

 

[Jay]

I am quite sure Reventón is a Ferrarichat regular as is a few others in this forum.


but anyway I wouldn't hesitate working on my own Ferrari, all I would want is a good source of parts and service manuals so I know what recommended order and torque bolts need to tensioned (and other various clearances and specs more important on a Ferrari). Ferrari's have a much higher tolerance than regular cars which requires a more high attention to detail and thorough job.

 

[McLaren]

I guess my words are coming out wrong, and i meant no offence sorry, obviously a Ferrari is not just a car that is why it is a dream for some people, there are some Ferrari's that if i owned i would always make sure it was dealer maintained, but i am referring to the older models IE 355 back.

I understand, mate.

I do not know whether you are aware of the site Ferrarichat? i have a friend there called Dale now he worked in one of the biggest Ferrari dealerships in Birmingham servicing these cars on a daily basis, he owns a 348 himself, Dale was made redundant from this dealership, he still works on these cars and to people such as this one engine is very much like another, he will work on a Fiesta in the morning and a Ferrari in the afternoon, i am not on about your average backstreet garage but about people such as Dale.

Yes, I am aware of it. I've been a member on there 2 & a half years.

And yes, I figured you meant someone like Dale. But the thing is, you noted where Dale worked previously, a Ferrari dealership. Being so, I would highly expect him to be capable of working on his own car. I'm sure he worked on others' enough times.

But again, I understand what you mean. As I noted, I would take my Ferrari to these people you're referring to because they'll probably have a good review & service record.

I am aware of the problems you refer to and the kraupy mis designed fuel lines in the 355, if i had these problems well yes then i would take it to a dealer to have them resolved.

Well, that's I mean. I'm all for an owner working on his own car, that's major props. But for me, it's stuff like this or the well known major service that I would just feel better if Ferrari did it. Asking someone to rotate your tires, do an oil change, or anything that's never really a big issue, that kind of stuff I have no problem taking to anyone but Ferrari, just so long as they are well respected shop.

I am not trying to cause bad feelings here just trying to point out that running a Ferrari need not be the financial nightmare like most people seem to think it is 👍

No bad feelings here.

But, imo, I would say that statement depends on the Ferrari. 355's, 348's, etc., all the V8 Ferrari's of the 90's are pretty dependable little cars. I know many who have no problem driving theirs 4 out of 7 days a week. Getting into the 80's, you then catch a few problems minus the Testarossa's (though they have a few as well).

To me, it seems the models that can have a financial issue are the more uncommon ones. They're cheap, but as we agreed, a good PPI is needed to help prevent the future problems.

but anyway I wouldn't hesitate working on my own Ferrari, all I would want is a good source of parts and service manuals so I know what recommended order and torque bolts need to tensioned (and other various clearances and specs more important on a Ferrari). Ferrari's have a much higher tolerance than regular cars which requires a more high attention to detail and thorough job.

If Ferrari manuals are anything like Lamborghini & higher-up Porsches, I'm sure someone on ebay will try to charge a nice bit of cash just to have the manual.

 

[Jay]

If Ferrari manuals are anything like Lamborghini & higher-up Porsches, I'm sure someone on ebay will try to charge a nice bit of cash just to have the manual.

Yeah, I imagine everything to do with a Ferrari will have a painful surcharge.