Here's something for you to chew over... Decision made!

[GilesGuthrie]

Current Car: Renault Grand Espace
The Brief: Family car, can seat 5 in comfort, including children up to 18, 15 & 13. Fast (min 400bhp); not SUV. Stylish, i.e. not an obvious "Mommy/Daddymobile".
The candidates: BMW F10 M5; Mercedes E63 AMG, Jaguar XJ L Supersport, Audi A8

So, here's the pickle. The Espace is coming up 6 years old, and it's great and everything, but it's only 175bhp, so it's a bit slow. And it's very much a family bus.

I'm after something a whole lot faster, and a whole lot less family bus. It needs to be able to seat 5 people in comfort, and we need to keep it for 7-10 years, by which time my children will be 18, 15 & 13. At least two of them will be over 6' tall by then. We will keep the Espace for times when a massive wagon is absolutely required, since it doesn't really owe us very much, and on 2,000 miles per annum won't cost the earth to retain.

Budget is around £68,000, maximum age of a used car is 2 years. And without really revealing my source, I can get a brand new F10 M5, to my spec, for £68K.

Should I just get an M5?

Remember, your suggestions must be available in the UK. Check pistonheads.com/sales or autotrader.co.uk if you're in doubt.

Make suggestions for me! (I have deliberately left two candidate cars out above).

 

[sumbrownkid]

Get the M5. How often do you come across a car of that caliber at that price?

That said, maintaining and feeding that beast is gonna be hard on the wallet. And you don't need me to tell you that the taxes on that thing must be astronomical.

 

[Famine]

Should I just get an M5?

Yes.

Or an XFR.

 

[NLxAROSA]

How about a Porsche Panamera S or GTS? Jaguar XFR sounds really nice too. Cadillac CTS-V?

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Merc E63 AMG.. And why not make a poll?

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Poll done.

 

[Ibonibo]

^Test Drive the S6. Drove the 2008 model. Loved every piece of it.

S8 is just a lot more luxurious.

I would be cliffhanging between the M5 and the S6

 

[MustangManiac]

No question...Jaguar! Mine may 20+ years old, but it is one of the finest cars I have ever owned. And the Super Sport gets 15 mpg, which is nearly double what my V-12 gets.

 

[homeforsummer]

Yes.

Or an XFR.

XFR over M5. If only because it's a billion times better looking, but partly because I've driven the XFR and it's wonderful, and I've read plenty of reviews that suggest it's better than the M5, so putting two and two together I'd go with the Jag.

That said, I've driven the XFR and XJ Supersport back-to-back and the XJ is staggeringly good. It's just £30k more expensive and to my eyes, not quite as pretty. Obviously, the price difference may be erased used, but I'd still expect the XFR to be cheaper/newer one for the same dosh.

Decide for yourself...

Jaguar XFR by Vitesse Photography, on Flickr


Jaguar XJ SuperSport LWB by Vitesse Photography, on Flickr​

The XJ does have one of the best interiors ever put in a car though.

The German vehicles are all brilliant but just a bit... German. I'd not get the same kick about having an Audi or BMW on the drive as I would an XJ. I've not felt as special driving any car as I have the XJ.

The Maserati is still a looker but suspect on pure talent it's lagging behind a little now.

All that said, are XJ SSs even down to that budget now?

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Yes, XJ L Supersports can be had for just north of £50k.

I'm not that into the Maser, but a mate suggested I have a look at it.

For me, it's between the M5, the E63 wagon and the XJ. I think the XJ is beautiful, the E63 is the most practical (and also great looking) and the M5 is an M5. The wife doesn't like estates, so wants an M5.

Part of me is thinking "It's an M5, you've got a shot at buying an M5, is this even a question?" But part of me is thinking "lot of money, due diligence required".

I suspect an XFR might not be big enough.

 

[E28]

Being a (possibly biased) Bimmer fan and a lover of the F10, I'd say that. But the XJ Supersport would seriously tempt me, so I'd say either that or the M5.

 

[homeforsummer]

Yes, XJ L Supersports can be had for just north of £50k.

I'm not that into the Maser, but a mate suggested I have a look at it.

For me, it's between the M5, the E63 wagon and the XJ. I think the XJ is beautiful, the E63 is the most practical (and also great looking) and the M5 is an M5. The wife doesn't like estates, so wants an M5.

Part of me is thinking "It's an M5, you've got a shot at buying an M5, is this even a question?" But part of me is thinking "lot of money, due diligence required".

I suspect an XFR might not be big enough.

I can certainly see the appeal of the E63 wagon - far more than any of the German saloons.

The only new 5er I've been in is the ActiveHybrid. It's pretty quick on its own (~300 bhp), well built, great interior etc, but completely passionless. Expect the M5 is a step up but reviews have been a bit underwhelming - I keep seeing it get beaten by the E63, XFR and so-on.

Surprised about the price of Supersports - they're double that brand new! Utterly glorious things. "L" has plenty of space too (XF is fairly good but naturally not quite as spacious...). 500bhp is pretty tasty too. My next go in one can't come soon enough.

 

[Slash]

Getting a car to last 10 years is a lot harder than it used to be.

 

[homeforsummer]

Getting a car to last 10 years is a lot harder than it used to be.

Depends on the car and depends how well you treat it. Theoretically, modern cars will last far longer than their older counterparts. The trouble is that most people treat cars as disposable goods these days.

Something like the cars being discussed will have absolutely no trouble at all lasting decades, provided they're well looked-after.

 

[Blackbird.]

How about a Porsche Panamera S or GTS? Jaguar XFR sounds really nice too. Cadillac CTS-V?

While I really like the Panamera I believe it only seats 4, he needs 5 comfortably. Plus I I think the Panamera is too much for his budget.

 

[Slash]

Depends on the car and depends how well you treat it. Theoretically, modern cars will last far longer than their older counterparts. The trouble is that most people treat cars as disposable goods these days.

Something like the cars being discussed will have absolutely no trouble at all lasting decades, provided they're well looked-after.

That does make all the difference though. My grandpa had a (just traded in for a 2011) 2000 Dodge Ram 1500 and it was clean! I've seen another that is rotted to the ground with an engine kocking ready to throw a rod.

 

[CMvan46]

How about spend half but buy two and send me one?

Well my choice would be the M5. Had the joy of driving one here at work once and it's a gorgeous drive. Plus if the wife likes it it abides by the old rule:

Happy wife, happy life.... That's reason alone.

 

[Dennisch]

Merc. Fast and comfy.

Key words: German. and AMG.

 

[Nicksfix]

Here kitty kitty kitty .... Jag XJ Supersport.

 

[motortrend]

Merc is great for raw power and you can easily get more out but it will probably cost you much more than te bimmerpost maintenance wise. What i do question about the bimmer is the reliability with the turbos and all. If you dont mesa around too much and keep it maintained it should be all right. I say go M5

 

[JCE]

AMG. No contest.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Reviews I've read have picked the E63 as being better than the M5 surprisingly, however out of those choices I'd go for the XJ or Quattroporte, if it's a GTS. Logic would dictate going for the M5 or AMG though.

 

[ghsnu]

Hmm...immediately voted for the Quattroporte due to Top Gear. God that sound is amazingggggg.

As for affordable and long lasting: I'd say the Jaaag XJ L or XFR. Not much of a MB, BMW, or Audi fan (except for the R8) and the Jaaags are RWD with power, fun, and enough space (though I'd still recommend a wagon or SUV as 3 kids in a row probably demands plenty of leg- and arm-room). Your best bet is to just watch some reviews for each car and keep an eye on tunk space, backseat space, and options. Look at the specs and compare MPG (though that doesn't seem important judging by your price range), HP, torque, etc. Buy the one with the best HP/Pound (both weight and price), torque/Pound, etc.

If ya want luxury though, just get an FF - 4WD, sexy V12, and luxurious interior. Exterior styling is...uh...different based on preferences though.


Or just be an American and buy a giant Escalade/Expedition/Suburban.


*Opinions from someone who hasn't bought a new car (nor expensive one).

 

[deba94]

Definitely E63, it's comfortable, reliable*, and certainly has great performance. Modifications are relatively easy too; a simple ECU upgrade can yield over 110HP, getting you to around 670HP 734 lb/ft.

Of course, that's with the BiTurbo M157, which was only introduced after MY2011, so you should definitely grab a late 2011-present E63 .




*MY2011 and on; previous models (equipped with the M156) have a rare, but annoying problem where the magnesium intake manifold would warp under serious (and I mean very serious) stress. Otherwise, the entire W212 MY range is great.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. Even you ghsnu who's suggesting I take my £68K budget and use it to buy a £220K V12 Italian!

Feedback from the Finance Director is that we shouldn't buy the Jag XJ. Partly this is because she thinks Jaguars are old men's cars, partly because her dad wants one, and partly because she thinks they're "flash". All this is without having had a look at one. I'm not even sure she knows what they are, or is aware of having seen one on the road...

And as I mentioned earlier, she hates wagons (or "coffin cars" as she calls them). I've always had a soft spot for wagons, hence the E63 is quite high in my affections. That being said, she also doesn't like BMWs, as they're flash too, and "all BMW drivers are cocks". Not stereotyping in any way then...

I suspect that she'll like the Jaguar more after having a good look at one. I just need to get some test drives organised.

 

[homeforsummer]

"all BMW drivers are cocks"

Quick! Steer her away from the Audi!

I suspect that she'll like the Jaguar more after having a good look at one. I just need to get some test drives organised.

Of course, that's the useful bit. You'll only really know which to have after a test drive. My input is limited to having driven the Jags and only sat in all the others thus far.

 

[daan]

and "all BMW drivers are cocks".

Indeed.

It has to be the Jaaaaaag.

 

[Ibonibo]

On the Maserati:
high in follow up costs, and italian electronics aren't known for reliability. And look at the used markets, they don't hold their value well

Have you considered an Audi Rs4? A used one with not many miles is easily in your budget.

Do you plan during the 10 year to roll a lot of miles? Because that could eliminate some cars due to their maintance cost and known reliability issues after a certain set of miles

But I get your and the others sweet spot for Jags, Clarkson is no different

"all BMW drivers are cocks"

Audi drivers are the new cocks,
Mercs is for pensioniers
Jags is for bourgois pensioniers with a hat and a wierd accent
Porsches is for wanna be cocks without a cock
Maserati is for people not having enough cash to buy a Ferrari
...
Stereotypes, where would the world be without them

 

[Omnis]

The only nice Jaaaag I've ever seen was outside of a clam bar sheltering an old cad making out with his decidedly-not-a-virgin date for the night.

You'll want that to be you in 10 years.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

On the Maserati:
high in follow up costs, and italian electronics aren't known for reliability. And look at the used markets, they don't hold their value well

Maintenance costs are a concern, because I don't want to resent the annual bills. Fuel I don't care about, but if it's going to cost a grand a year to service because stuff keeps breaking, that will sour the experience.

Have you considered an Audi Rs4? A used one with not many miles is easily in your budget.

My Mum has an A4 of that generation, and it's not big enough in the rear seats. With the transmission tunnel running down the middle, I need a bit of legroom to allow the middle seat child somewhere to put their feet either side of the tunnel.

Do you plan during the 10 year to roll a lot of miles? Because that could eliminate some cars due to their maintance cost and known reliability issues after a certain set of miles

No, mileage is projected to be sub-4,000 annually. Hence the search for massive V8s!

But I get your and the others sweet spot for Jags, Clarkson is no different

I'm not that bothered about the Jaguar brand, but I think the XJ is beautiful, and it has the Bowers & Wilkins stereo, and I am a real B&W fanboy! (No, I'm not seriously going to buy a car because of its stereo)