Historic Cars - Tremendous FUN!!!

[FishHunters]

Got to race them last night! Tracks were Rome, Monza and La Sarthe at night. It was a BLAST! 👍 1960's race cars same speed as today's race cars over 500HP; without the suspension of modern cars. So it's high speed living on the edge! If you haven't tried it definitely need to!

1. '67 Chaparral 2D RC:

2. '67 Ferrari 330 P4 RC:

3. '69 Ford GT40 RC:

4. '67 Ford Mark IV RC:

5. '66 Jaguar XJ13 RC:

6. '70 Chapparral 2J RC:

 

[200MphFord]

These are my favorite cars to race for that same reason. We should race together ill send you a FR.

 

[Exorcet]

They are fun, but they're all horribly modeled. Some of them don't even have front downforce yet GT5 treats them like modern GT1 race cars.

 

[Vitzio]

You should take the Ford Mark IV on Circuit de la Sarthe if you haven't already. So awesome.

 

[SkateNj]

The 2j is just to fun
All of them are
A havent driven the 2D but im currently reisnstalling updates from the borrow glitch!
So in one hour ill be driving it

 

[sinbad]

They're fun if you use a sports tyre (at most). Racing tyres are too grippy for cars if this age/era and they just end up feeling like a modern sports gt or racing car with a soft suspension setting.

The s800 race car is one of my personal favorites, on comfort tyres.

 

[GTP_ken_b]

These are my favorite cars to race for that same reason. We should race together ill send you a FR.

I'd be interested in some clean classic races, if you want feel free to add me:

ken_b

 

[200MphFord]

I'd be interested in some clean classic races, if you want feel free to add me:

ken_b

Will do im always up for racing classic.

 

[NCRthree]

I just bought the 330. Was looking to race it against some other oldies.

 

[maxpontiac]

The FishHunter is onto something.

Now while I usually don't race with the cars he has pictured in his first post, I do love driving any and all vehicles from the 60's..

 

[FishHunters]

I guess I'll do another series then. This time over about 5-6 weeks. Probably later in the year Nov/Dec.

 

[Ras35001]

What`s the best car to drive of the ones listed above?

 

[C-ZETA]

The Ford Mark IV is total ear porn. The others just sound like vaccum cleaners sadly, except for the GT40 obviously. But they're all good to drive.

 

[mykem]

They are fun, but they're all horribly modeled. Some of them don't even have front downforce yet GT5 treats them like modern GT1 race cars.

They don't have easily adjustable front downforce but most of them have splitters, airdams, diffusers and if you look at the Ferrari P3/4 in the photos above, it even has dive plates to increase downforce and helps channel the air from beneath the cars (edit- also on the P3/4, you can see a similar winglet in the radiator intake as those on the 458- although I'm sue it isn't flexible as those on the 458's). And things like splitters are changeable/adjustable parts. In GT5, to make it more challenging, you can leave the front downforce static at a lower level than the default setting.

 

[SkateNj]

The Ford Mark IV is total ear porn. The others just sound like vaccum cleaners sadly, except for the GT40 obviously. But they're all good to drive.

thats what the chap is
its a vacuum cleaner race car

 

[Furinkazen]

I tried a classic series for those cars, didn't take off .

But you forgot ONE car:

 

[FlareKR]

I love the GT40. My favorite out of all of them.
Still think it's better than the '05 GT, minus the air conditioning.

 

[FishHunters]

I tried a classic series for those cars, didn't take off .

But you forgot ONE car:

You're right. Didn't include it in the Series because it's slower than the others.

 

[Furinkazen]

You're right. Didn't include it in the Series because it's slower than the others.

Slower, but a ball to drive.

 

[Exorcet]

They don't have easily adjustable front downforce but most of them have splitters, airdams, diffusers and if you look at the Ferrari P3/4 in the photos above, it even has dive plates to increase downforce and helps channel the air from beneath the cars (edit- also on the P3/4, you can see a similar winglet in the radiator intake as those on the 458- although I'm sue it isn't flexible as those on the 458's). And things like splitters are changeable/adjustable parts. In GT5, to make it more challenging, you can leave the front downforce static at a lower level than the default setting.

The understanding of aero at the time wasn't all that great in auto racing. The 330 is really the only one with some kind of front downforce that I see/know of (I guess you could count the 2J since the underside is completely dedicated to aerodynamics). Ground effects were out (again barring the 2J), so most of these cars probably produced significant lift in some form or another.



I know that the GT40's were pretty crazy; they essentially risked flipping over like the CLR every time they went down a straight like Mulsanne. Back then people liked to slap a spoiler to rear end and call it a day. It resulted in drag and understeer. The historic cars feel just as balanced as the modern racers. You can try to replicate it by playing with the downforce, but the car just aren't modeled in enough detail to capture their true nature, at least in my experience. The front wheels should be scary-light driving at near 200 mph, but these cars always feel safe and comfortable.






EDIT

Actually, someone could roll the cars over and see what's on the underside. I did it with the Audi R10 and Peugeot 908 and was surprised to see the detail in game, the front diffusers on those cars were well modeled. I know that the 2J's fan's are present in the game's car model.

I'm actually curious to see what's under there. Race teams like to keep this things under tight wraps, so I was surprised to see the R10 and 908's designs modeled.

 

[Tonkz]

I tried a classic series for those cars, didn't take off .

But you forgot ONE car:

Left out for good reason... it pales in comparison

 

[200MphFord]

If tuned correctly the 63 'Vette racecar can be very competitive. I've hosted several rooms racing these cars and sometimes i had a few people race them and be a force to be reckoned with. Its a very fast car that makes up for its slower cornering speeds with its high horsepower. Dont be so quick to underestimate it, you might be surprised one of these days.

 

[Tonkz]

If tuned correctly the 63 'Vette racecar can be very competitive. I've hosted several rooms racing these cars and sometimes i had a few people race them and be a force to be reckoned with. Its a very fast car that makes up for its slower cornering speeds with its high horsepower. Dont be so quick to underestimate it, you might be surprised one of these days.

Of course it can. In fact its a superb car for racing...
(Its just not in the same ball park of the Ferrari 330, Jag Xj13, Mark IV, 2D & Ford Gt40...)
Then those cars aren't in the same league as the 2D & the Toyota 7....

 

[gogatrs]

I've been attempting a classic LM series.
But it hasn't had enough participants.
I'm on my iPod so I can't link you.
It's called the Classic Le Mans Endurance Series. 👍

 

[200MphFord]

I've been attempting a classic LM series.
But it hasn't had enough participants.
I'm on my iPod so I can't link you.
It's called the Classic Le Mans Endurance Series. 👍

Yes im patiently awaiting the revival of that series. And let me say the Vette can compete with the other classic race cars was i not making myself clear in my other post?

 

[Aaronrray]

The understanding of aero at the time wasn't all that great in auto racing. The 330 is really the only one with some kind of front downforce that I see/know of (I guess you could count the 2J since the underside is completely dedicated to aerodynamics). Ground effects were out (again barring the 2J), so most of these cars probably produced significant lift in some form or another.

I know that the GT40's were pretty crazy; they essentially risked flipping over like the CLR every time they went down a straight like Mulsanne. Back then people liked to slap a spoiler to rear end and call it a day. It resulted in drag and understeer. The historic cars feel just as balanced as the modern racers. You can try to replicate it by playing with the downforce, but the car just aren't modeled in enough detail to capture their true nature, at least in my experience. The front wheels should be scary-light driving at near 200 mph, but these cars always feel safe and comfortable.

EDIT

Actually, someone could roll the cars over and see what's on the underside. I did it with the Audi R10 and Peugeot 908 and was surprised to see the detail in game, the front diffusers on those cars were well modeled. I know that the 2J's fan's are present in the game's car model.

I'm actually curious to see what's under there. Race teams like to keep this things under tight wraps, so I was surprised to see the R10 and 908's designs modeled.

Actually, chaparral practically invented the concept of downforce, the wing on race cars and ground effects exist because of chaparral!

 

[FishHunters]

If you want to whet your appetite here is an Series for you: 4-Man Team Historic

 

[mykem]

The understanding of aero at the time wasn't all that great in auto racing. The 330 is really the only one with some kind of front downforce that I see/know of (I guess you could count the 2J since the underside is completely dedicated to aerodynamics). Ground effects were out (again barring the 2J), so most of these cars probably produced significant lift in some form or another.



I know that the GT40's were pretty crazy; they essentially risked flipping over like the CLR every time they went down a straight like Mulsanne. Back then people liked to slap a spoiler to rear end and call it a day. It resulted in drag and understeer. The historic cars feel just as balanced as the modern racers. You can try to replicate it by playing with the downforce, but the car just aren't modeled in enough detail to capture their true nature, at least in my experience. The front wheels should be scary-light driving at near 200 mph, but these cars always feel safe and comfortable.

Although the technology is nothing compared to what it is now, I wouldn't go as far saying that on the Ford GT40 (from Mk I to Mk IV) they would just "slap a spoiler to rear end and call it a day." The amount of money Henry Ford spent on making sure they beat the Ferraris and win Le Mans was astronomical and while money don't mean dick, it means they were able to hire the best people and do a lot of scenarios/modeling (which can now be done on computers in like seconds).

The car- any version of the GT40- was quite stable down the Mulsanne (comparatively of course but still). It will still lift-off near the Mulsanne Corner (the hump was more severe back then) as would all the cars at the time save for the much later Porsche 917 (in 1969 according to Ford GT40 driver Peter Sadler). If there's one thing that was problematic it was the brake system due the fact that the GT40 was/is a heavy car.

And the OP forgot the Alfa Zagato TZ2 :

I was driving this car last night on the full 24 hour Nurburgring course (with time change, of course). I reduced the downforce to minimum and slap on Sport Medium (although I think SH would probably be as good). It's a much slower car but you can feel the old tech working (especially the suspension/bushing).

 

[Exorcet]

Actually, chaparral practically invented the concept of downforce, the wing on race cars and ground effects exist because of chaparral!

The wing cars came after the 2D, and none of them used ground effects besides the 2J to my knowledge. Formula 1 is where most of the GE tech came from.

Although the technology is nothing compared to what it is now, I wouldn't go as far saying that on the Ford GT40 (from Mk I to Mk IV) they would just "slap a spoiler to rear end and call it a day." The amount of money Henry Ford spent on making sure they beat the Ferraris and win Le Mans was astronomical and while money don't mean dick, it means they were able to hire the best people and do a lot of scenarios/modeling (which can now be done on computers in like seconds).

An exaggeration on my point, I concede. But most of the money going into aerodynamics were probably focused on reducing drag, not so much getting the car glued to the ground.

I'm fairly sure that some form of the GT40 was at risk for flipping over near max speed. I'll need to see if I can find a source. The problem is a car is a lifting shape naturally. Without wings, splitters, spoilers, and or ground effects, a car is most likely going to produce lift. While many of these older cars did have a rear spoiler which helped the rear wheels out, that same set up could potentially negate the front wheel's traction if the car wasn't thoroughly sorted out from an aerodynamic standpoint.



Here is a lift-drag chart for the GT40. The front end becomes ever lighter as speed increases. Also, the car never achieves a negative lift coefficient.

This would have been interesting to see in GT5. Instead of the usual increase in cornering performance with speed, these cars (or at least the GT40) would have their performance and handling degrade with speed.

 

[FishHunters]

Although the technology is nothing compared to what it is now, I wouldn't go as far saying that on the Ford GT40 (from Mk I to Mk IV) they would just "slap a spoiler to rear end and call it a day." The amount of money Henry Ford spent on making sure they beat the Ferraris and win Le Mans was astronomical and while money don't mean dick, it means they were able to hire the best people and do a lot of scenarios/modeling (which can now be done on computers in like seconds).

The car- any version of the GT40- was quite stable down the Mulsanne (comparatively of course but still). It will still lift-off near the Mulsanne Corner (the hump was more severe back then) as would all the cars at the time save for the much later Porsche 917 (in 1969 according to Ford GT40 driver Peter Sadler). If there's one thing that was problematic it was the brake system due the fact that the GT40 was/is a heavy car.

And the OP forgot the Alfa Zagato TZ2 :

I was driving this car last night on the full 24 hour Nurburgring course (with time change, of course). I reduced the downforce to minimum and slap on Sport Medium (although I think SH would probably be as good). It's a much slower car but you can feel the old tech working (especially the suspension/bushing).

I wish it had the horses to compete with these guys! Very nice car and I've enjoyed driving it! One day I'll create a series for it!