Historic Group C/GTP - Pre-Season Tyre Test

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nitro_2005

nitro_2005

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The Historic Group C/GTP Championship

Pre-Season Tyre Test

Venue: Grand Valley Speedway



Rules: Standard OLR Rules apply (no cheating, wallriding, etc.)
Mode: Arcade Mode - Single Race w/ tyre wear - 10 laps, AI - 8-10 difficulty
Weight/HP Limits - PTWR:
Jag - 894Kg / 951Hp - 1.064
R89C - 900Kg / 954Hp - 1.060
R92CP-900Kg / 958Hp - 1.064
88CV - 850Kg / 906Hp - 1.065
C9 - 928Kg / 945Hp - 1.018
787 - 805Kg / 815Hp - 1.012
905 - 750Kg / 918Hp - 1.224
Tyres: R3 only
Aids: TCS is optional
Test Duration: Test ends Saturday 16th June 20:00 GMT

You are free to discuss T-times
PM all times to me

Attendees:

groupcva9.jpg


Let the test begin...​
 
My first T-Time: 13'457

First impressions of the Mazda: fun to drive, fantastic acceleration and lots of wheelspin in 3rd gear. This should be fun. :crazy:
 
have to agree with you about the Mazda :scared:
3rd gear :crazy:
running about the same times as posted so far
still trying to figure out braking points to be able to make it into the chicane and out of the kitty litter.

tough track to get use to with so much hp :grumpy:
these beast weren't made for running it. Like taking a Saleen out on a go-kart track :dopey:
 
13'009

completely different animal without aids, but playing with the throttle takes time to master
 
oldphart
Tough track to get use to with so much hp :grumpy:
these beast weren't made for running it. Like taking a Saleen out on a go-kart track :dopey:
Click to expand...
Delfino
👍 Agreed .. couldn't wait to leave the track ....
Click to expand...
This is definately like taking an F1 car on a go-kart track. (I would say Scalectrix track, but don't know how many would know what I was talking about)

These cars need to breathe, need to 'stretch the legs' and show what they are made of.

They are made to FLY!
Bred to run through tree lined avenue's at 200 mph, or long flowing tracks that allow the aero packages to do what they are made for!
Sucking litres of air a second into their intakes, leaving only black lines and blue haze in their wake!
Let's have a testing session that will give US the heart to push them to the limits of adhesion, and beyond!

Just my opinion, but if I was running this series........this track would NOT be a test track for these cars, in my wildest drug-crazed rantings!

Neil
 
lol good points tyre king

These cars were custom built for Le Mans hint hint

but I find it amazing I can hit 180mph on a 1 mile roadcourse
 
Aids ? what are those ? :dopey:

Not using any aids... got into the 12 second area with more to come yet.
If nothing else, this track is teaching me braking and gear/motor response to the Mazda beast :scared:

Still trying to push coming out of the last right for the main straight in 3rd without spinning the rears :( or ending up in the kitty litter. Yeah, I know, I know.... that's what the aids are for ... not only am I old, but I'm stubborn as well. As mentioned above, pedal control. Trying to find out just how deep I can get into the first corner and still come out on the other end :crazy:
 
hi,sorry i've been busy past couple of days. If you want me to change the test venue to somewhere like Le Mans, then that's no problem. Just say the word and I'll do so.
 
nitro_2005
hi,sorry i've been busy past couple of days. If you want me to change the test venue to somewhere like Le Mans, then that's no problem. Just say the word and I'll do so.
Click to expand...

Yeah Le mans would be far more appropriate 👍 , this series sounds interesting how can i join up to it?
 
OK, Le Mans wil be the new test venue.

crooky369: To join this series, go post your entry in the main thread. It should just say New Historic Group C/GTP Championship
 
Having an absolute ball, blasting round Le Sarthe!

Getting top speeds of 238mph down the Mulsanne straight :scared:

Will post some splits later.

EDIT
OK, here's some splits!

T1 29.300
T2 57.316
T3 1'15.832
T4 1'34.837
T5 2'02.002
T6 2'29.885

I know I can go faster, especially in the first half of the lap, as I keep beating this ghost through to T4. But then I keep losing it a little after then.

So expect faster one's later on! This new screen I have is taking a little getting used to.

Neil
 
T1 28.976 - right before terte rouge
T2 56.885
T3 1'15.482
T4 1'34.249 - right after mulsanne corner
T5 2'01.029 - Right after Indianapolis
T6 2'28.910

Jaguar XJR-9 941 HP R4 tires. Very clean lap, always had at least 2 tires on the racing surface. I never dropped below 3rd gear. Just way too much tire spin.

Top speed on Mulsanne 237 mph

Looks like I beat tire king some before turn 4 and a little bit more at indianapolis.

What car are you in Tyre King?
 
Earth
T1 28.976 - right before terte rouge
T2 56.885
T3 1'15.482
T4 1'34.249 - right after mulsanne corner
T5 2'01.029 - Right after Indianapolis
T6 2'28.910

Jaguar XJR-9 941 HP R4 tires. Very clean lap, always had at least 2 tires on the racing surface. I never dropped below 3rd gear. Just way too much tire spin.

Top speed on Mulsanne 237 mph

Looks like I beat tire king some before turn 4 and a little bit more at indianapolis.

What car are you in Tyre King?
Click to expand...
Same car, same settings, same cleanliness!

However I did hit 2nd once in the lap @ right after Indianapolis

I can be at least a second faster in the first half of the lap, the key corners for that are the dunlop chicane and the right onto the Mulsanne straight.
The braking for Mulsanne corner is critical to good speed down to Indianapolis, and staying in 4th for the Porche curves and Neuvelle Maison is good for stability.
I'm just getting used to my new screen, and being a 'little' too tentative with the 'right-foot traction control'

This is the track these cars were made for, their natural environment.

Love it!

Oh, and my mates call me Neil.
So please feel free.👍
 
All,

nitro_2005 currently has no access to the PS2 and has asked if we could please help him test/handicap the cars in this series. Just the HP testing/handicapping for now. Weight handicapping will be a factor in this series, but for now, the request for help is for us to do some HP testing.

I'm a novice racer, have not performed any testing, and would appreciate any suggestions on the best way to do this. I suppose a good start would be to test the cars at equal HP levels, or as close as equal as possible, and then record lap times.

Thanks,
ERacer
 
ERacer
All,

nitro_2005 currently has no access to the PS2 and has asked if we could please help him test/handicap the cars in this series. Just the HP testing/handicapping for now. Weight handicapping will be a factor in this series, but for now, the request for help is for us to do some HP testing.
Click to expand...
sure I'll help out.
ERacer
I'm a novice racer, have not performed any testing, and would appreciate any suggestions on the best way to do this. I suppose a good start would be to test the cars at equal HP levels, or as close as equal as possible, and then record lap times.

Thanks,
ERacer
Click to expand...
the suggestion in bold is good way to do it. it'll give you a good idea on the performance levels. from that point on, you then can measure the approperiate weight and see how it effects the car.
 
I tested the Mazda 787b (909HP) and the Jaguar (941HP), and the Mazda beats the Jaguar by over a second easily just 2 minutes into the lap on Le Mans II
 
Yeah, I sent Nitro a PM on the 26th suggesting that some parity testing needed to be done to level out the cars.

I offered to help out with it too! He didn't get back to me. :rolleyes:

However, I'll gladly answer the call to do some testing.👍

As soon as I have done a run in the Gt-One @ New York, I'll get right on it.

I suggest getting the P/W ratio's as close as poss as a starting point, so I'll do the math and post a table later today.

From there, it'll be a case of adjusting for the different aero-package characteristics.👍

Neil
 
In my tests .. the Jaguar was most definately the 'loosest' car of them all .. whoever is using must sure like it sideways .

The Minolta was fastest but also wore the tyres fastest .

Havent ventured out onto Sarthe II yet [ with the Nissan 89 ] but i'm certainly looking forward to it .
 
I would strongly suggest extending the deadline for this test session!

Maybe another week, poss two would be apprapo?

Better to do more now, than for things to turn to rat-turds in the middle of the season for want of a little extra testing.

Neil
 
Cool!

That gives us the time we need to sort things out!

Neil
 
Finished a very basic, preliminary test of five vehicles:

Jaguar XJR-9
Nissan R92CP
Mazda 787B
Sauber C9
Toyota 88C-V

Power-to-weight ratio was set as close to 1:1 as possible. I used 900 HP-to-900 kg. Only the Nissan R92CP came out exactly at 900:900, but the others were very close and the difference is probably insignificant. Gearing on all three cars was set to 440 so that maximum speed could be measured without redlining. Could have been set higher but at the expense of acceleration. Tires on all cars were RM/RM. Tire wear set to strong. No aids. Test track was La Sarthe II.

Results:

Jaguar:
Avg lap time: 3'10.xxx
Top speed: 234 mph
Tire wear: Lasted 6 laps (rears deep orange)
Notes: Slightly unstable in the curves and corners, but the aero package proved surprisingly fast down the Mulsanne Straight. Slowest of all five cars, but also the best tire durability.

Nissan:
Avg. lap time: 3'07.xxx
Top speed: 231 mph
Tire wear: Lasted 3 laps (rears deep orange)
Notes: This growler seemed slow to accelerate at 440 gearing, but deceptively turned in third fastest laps of all five.

Mazda:
Avg. lap time: 3'04.xxx
Top speed: 241 mph
Tire wear: Lasted 3 laps (rears orange)
Notes: 900 HP and 900 kgs seemed too much for the Mazda as it tended to sweep into the kitty litter at every corner and suffered from poor braking. I had to change the gearing to 480 on this little beast as the 900 HPs ran through the short gearbox (5 gears) very quickly. Fastest laps of all five. Mr. Wankel would be so proud of his revolutionary engine.

Sauber:
Avg. lap time: 3'05.xxx
Top speed: 233 mph
Tire wear: Lasted 3 laps (rears deep red)
Notes: This may very well be the most vunderbart car to drive. Very stable cornering & braking. Great acceleration at 440 gearing. Even with rear tires at orange the Sauber handled the quick deceleration and ensuing sharp righty at the end of the Mulsanne Straight beautifully and then took the Indianapolis with equal ease. Unfortunately, even German engineering could not save the Sauber from the same poor tire durability as most of its C-class peers suffer from. Still, a great car with a great engine sound too!

Toyota:
Avg. lap time: 3'09.xxx
Top speed: 231 mph
Tire wear: Lasted 3 laps (rears deep red)
Notes: Amazingly stable with great acceleration at 440 gearing. However, down the Mulsanne you could hear the rears making a chirping, or squeaking, noise as the aerodynamics tried to keep it from bouncing. On lap 2, at Tertre Rouge the rears were turning yellow, incredibly, by the very end of Mulsanne they were turning orange and finished lap #3 an undrivable deep red.

ERacer 👍
 
Interesting review Racer .. are you going to test the RB9C .. or can i have it all to myself 💡
 
After 2 laps at Sarthe in the R89C .. with your specs Racer .. i'm re-thinking my entry in this series :nervous:

Lets hope the racing specs are a little more user friendly { say 850hp and 800 kilos } because running 2 laps at Sarthe ain't much fun if you have to pit every 2nd lap { tyre wear for Sarthe and the Northern Loop should be set to mild .. 'for the interest of the sport' 💡 .. just my 2 cents worth anyway }
 
Yeah I agree with that assessment Marty!

I am going to suggest just that ammendment to Chris in the LMS.
My GT-One would be pitting every two laps, even with hard boots on the rear, at Le Sarthe and maybe every lap at the Ring.:crazy:

I've been running these cars @ 1.065 Hp/Kg as that figure is stock for two of them.
Jag - 894Kg / 914Hp (std) / 951Hp in test (Spot on @ 1.064) - 2'53.682
89C - 900Kg / 908Hp (std)/ 954Hp in test (Slightly low @ 1.060) - 2'53.259
92CP-900Kg / 939Hp (std)/ 958Hp in test (1.064) - 2'53.363
88C - 850Kg / 906Hp (std) / 906Hp in test(stock @ 1.065) - 2'53.372*
C9 - 893Kg / 927Hp (std) / 955Hp in test (slightly high @ 1.069) - 2'51.858
787 - 830Kg / 791Hp (std) / 886Hp in test (slightly high @ 1.067) - 2'51.373
905 - 750Kg / 799Hp (std) / 799Hp in test (stock @ 1.065) - 2'57.746*

* no changes to P/W figures


Neil
 
I'm attempting to handicap these cars and I'm beginning to realize how difficult the task is of making all the cars "equal." What are the criteria for equalizing cars? Should the cars have the same power/weight ratio? Should they be set at 800/800; 900/900; 950/850. I don't know which makes more sense. Also, much depends upon the test track used to handicap these cars. Ideally, the test track should encompass all the "typical/normal" driving conditions (i.e., hairpins, esses, long turns, straightaways, etc.) without bias towards any one condition. Test results would differ markedly for each vehicle if we were to use Midfield as compared to la Sarthe II, for example.

I'm all for equalizing the field of cars and making a more balanced race. I just need a bit of advise so that I'm not spinning my wheels unnecessarily. Hahaha - bad one. I also like how each car brings a set of unique, and unremovable, characteristics which may make it more suitable than other cars on a particular track. That is precisely what makes the car fun to drive! To choose a fast car with great handling but poor tire durability, versus a slow car with so-so handling but great tire durability is a decision which should prove to "even out" over the course of the series, provided that the series includes a variety of tracks with enough different conditions so that every car/driver has a reasonable chance at victory at a particular track. Personally, my car choice is based upon my skill and comfort level. So, being relatively new, I typically choose the slower car. Unfortunately, slower has not always proved to be easier. But I'm eager to see how my car performs over the various tracks within the series and with all other aspects being equal, such as HP/Wgt ratios, hopefully there is a first place for my car in one of the events. Wow, got a little sentimental there .... sorry.

Anyway, I hope we can all agree on a few handicapping and testing standards which should make sense to us all and that, in so doing, we can help run a great series featuring ALL the C-class cars that would enable every car to have a realistic chance of winning at some track.... wow, there I go again... don't know what's gotten into me today.

ERacer
 
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