Hot brakes and sparks

  • Thread starter Thread starter AleksandarSRB
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they is some proper backfire from this car about a minute in. Actually when you watch FIA GT1 all the cars backfire really loud

WOW listen to the sound around the followthrough. Imagine that hopefully in 6 months we will be driving that car around that track on gt5. :)



Sorry about the double post I tried to add this quote when editing the other post however it then started a new post so could a mod merge these and teach me how to multi quote. Shame on me!!
 
That would ruin your day. Imagine this happening inside your wheel. :scared:

 
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I really hope the brake glow, back fire, sparks, skidmarks are in GT5, but I have a feeling they will be missing

Agree (at least from what we have seen). Would be nice though, but really we dont know much at all about the game yet so i say we just wait and see :)
 
Don't want to sound like a knob but isn't red the hottest. When turned into molten metal it's red.
 
Agree (at least from what we have seen). Would be nice though, but really we dont know much at all about the game yet so i say we just wait and see :)

Those thing were in GT4 but were never shown before GT4 released
 
I'm really worried about sparks and backfire. We havn't seen them in any GT5 video yet.
Not even backfire. Sparks and backfire must be in GT5.

imo we haven't seen the REAL GT5, rather a lot of CGI and some flashy promos
 
imo we haven't seen the REAL GT5, rather a lot of CGI and some flashy promos

Actually I don't thing there is any CG in GT5 at all, the level of polygonal processing is far beyond the days of GT1-3, everything we have seen so far is rendered on the fly by the PS3. All the videos are on the fly renders, be it replays or promos, nothing CG. Hopefully backfire is done to high performance engines, especially when you tune it up. Sparks are probably a given, since they modeled the undersides of the cars too, full damage modeling(wonder if you can damage the under carriage too). Will the chassis warping make it back in this game too(made for harrowing rides on the Nürburgring with a warped chassis, fun times nail biters). Glowing brakes should be in as well, as they look awesome in replays, and we know how incredible PD camera work is in this department.
 
Well I'm saying for the most part PD wasn't driving around in the cars to make the videos, rather than them creating the scenes
 
Actually I don't thing there is any CG in GT5 at all, the level of polygonal processing is far beyond the days of GT1-3, everything we have seen so far is rendered on the fly by the PS3. All the videos are on the fly renders, be it replays or promos, nothing CG.

There's no CG? One video that sticks out in my mind is the SLS in the tunnel at night when the camera is on the gauges and zooms back as the car drives on.. That has to be CG it is to perfect. There's all kinds of short clips that are CG in almost everyone one of the vids we see.



at 00:34
 
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There's no CG? One video that sticks out in my mind is the SLS in the tunnel at night when the camera is on the gauges and zooms back as the car drives on.. That has to be CG it is to perfect. There's all kinds of short clips that are CG in almost everyone one of the vids we see.



at 00:34


Nope still not CG, it's just that when the game is used for one car video's they can up the polygon count to make things really smooth. GT3 and 4 do this during replays, notice that when you watch a replay the car models look exquisite, same thing here in this video, this view is something you'll never see in the game ever and the great thing is when used with on the fly geometry, they can play with the camera angles, change the camera focus. PD is very good at what they do, I have yet to see a team better at making photorealistic driving games than PD. No CG in that video that I can see, all in game engine running on just a single car, so it has plenty of horsepower to spare to make things look incredible, PD aren't stupid to make the video of that one car look so much better than when there are more cars on screen that it's plenty discernable, but they touched up areas that you normally won't be looking at in a race anyway. in a video it looks great, yes?
 
Nope still not CG, it's just that when the game is used for one car video's they can up the polygon count to make things really smooth. GT3 and 4 do this during replays, notice that when you watch a replay the car models look exquisite, same thing here in this video, this view is something you'll never see in the game ever and the great thing is when used with on the fly geometry, they can play with the camera angles, change the camera focus. PD is very good at what they do, I have yet to see a team better at making photorealistic driving games than PD. No CG in that video that I can see, all in game engine running on just a single car, so it has plenty of horsepower to spare to make things look incredible, PD aren't stupid to make the video of that one car look so much better than when there are more cars on screen that it's plenty discernable, but they touched up areas that you normally won't be looking at in a race anyway. in a video it looks great, yes?

hes right you know :)
 
Don't want to sound like a noob but isn't red the hottest. When turned into molten metal it's red.


Nope red is relatively cool, then orange and progressively brighter until white or by that point either the disc will fail or the fluid will boil.

A standard road disc can deal with going red but it does glaze the surface reducing efficiency and increasing noise, the hotter a disc is the more prone it is too deforming as well and will give you a vibration under braking.

Carbon discs arent fussed by going that hot and are much less likely to give you issues to high temp loadings, some dont even have a active friction surface until they are several hundred celcius anyway.

Vented discs can also cool down awesomely quick as well, the chamber inside the wheel and combined with the shape if the air feed and wheel arch make a wind tunnel of sorts that can knock hundred of C off in a couple of seconds. The biggest risk is doing a high speed stop, without air moving through the wheel to cool the disc while it is massively hot all the heat heads straight for the calliper and boils the fluid so next time you do a high speed stop you will find that the pedal will go to the floor and your bowels will feel a bit lighter.

Also could glowing discs be added in replay mode? you wont be able to see them while racing anyway.
 
Wow the info you pick up on this site is incredible.

Shame can't get much GT info.
 
Nope still not CG, it's just that when the game is used for one car video's they can up the polygon count to make things really smooth. GT3 and 4 do this during replays, notice that when you watch a replay the car models look exquisite, same thing here in this video, this view is something you'll never see in the game ever and the great thing is when used with on the fly geometry, they can play with the camera angles, change the camera focus. PD is very good at what they do, I have yet to see a team better at making photorealistic driving games than PD. No CG in that video that I can see, all in game engine running on just a single car, so it has plenty of horsepower to spare to make things look incredible, PD aren't stupid to make the video of that one car look so much better than when there are more cars on screen that it's plenty discernable, but they touched up areas that you normally won't be looking at in a race anyway. in a video it looks great, yes?

I did not know that.
 
Not to be "that guy" or anything, but steel turns blue at around 560°F
Ask any welder or machinist.

Say what? 560 will hardly get the steel glowing at all. The hotter the metal gets the whiter it gets. Have you ever seen a light bulb (the wire is not steel but you get the point)?

Edit: unless by turning blue you don't mean glowing but just the color change
 
It's true, pretty much any brake disc (metallic or "carbon" - not sure about plasticine...) will glow under hard load. Since we're all in a sharing mood: :dopey:

Road cars can be slightly modified for better brake performance on the track. Change the fluid for a less thermally conductive, "higher boiling" one ("race-spec") and the pads to a compound that won't glaze over (and if necessary, i.e. older cars, vented metal discs that won't warp so easily might be beneficial). The stock calipers will be fine, and you can avoid having to spend lots on carbon discs which will probably have poor low-temp stopping power and require special pads... That, in combination with sensible driving, should more-or-less eliminate brake fade, though I'd be happy to see it in (it's a reason to make sure you take the precautions above in-game.)

The problem of representing brake glow in the game is dependent on the ambient lighting. It annoys me when games show bright crimson-orange glow from disks in broad daylight. True, you would be able to see the glow from very hot disks in daylight, but it would not look so "saturated" in colour. At night, the disks appear deep red, then bright orange, then back to red, and seem to glow for longer, simply because the ambient light level is lower and the glow can be seen more easily, i.e. at lower disk temps. Couple this with the fact that most digital cameras pick up infra-red, to some extent, and the glow should be much more visible on camera than by the naked eye.

Metals do glow blue at higher temperatures, the problem is, they also glow red, yellow etc. at these temperatures, too (due to the curious electronic structure, which graphite shares [in one direction]) such that all states are excited at the higher energy levels, the mixing of which results in the white "colour". Metals should not be compared to plasma (e.g. flames), which can just as easily be pure colours (e.g. yellow, green, blue or anything in between) as not, since the excitation "mechanisms" are not the same. So, violet (having the shortest wavelength, hence highest "energy") represents the highest "temperature" that we can see. Of course, every material is different, so red-hot steel is not the (exact) same temperature as red-hot iron, or red-hot carbon - the first being a "mixture" of the latter two.

Whether a steel can stain blue is dependent on its constituent metals, e.g. Chromium, Nickel and Molybdenum are common. For example, it's the Vanadium in Titanium alloys that cause them to oxidise to that rainbow effect, since there are many oxides of Vanadium, each with their own "state" and, hence, colour. Sometimes the colour is not caused by oxides, but by other compounds. Either way, the colour is caused by absorption, not emission - so the deep blue colour is caused by absorption of yellow light, as a deep blue pigment would.

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My opinion is that glowing disks and sparks will make it in. "Backfire" probably will, too - though I doubt we'll see the "clean-burn" example as on that Ferrari 360. Skidmarks are a totally different issue (technically, since they're not transient like the others.) I hope the sparks will have rudimentary collision detection - I didn't like that they intruded the cockpit on the SLS in that Nürburgring vid.
 
Steel cant actively glow blue, it can stain blue once its cooled but thats closer to 1000C, 560F is barely in the dim red glow territory.

I was not referring to the luminosity of steel, simply the range of temper colors steel exhibits as it is heated. For example, a twist-drill with uneven edge angles will run hot on one side, often producing a long, tightly-curled steel chip that is deep blue and extremely hot, but nowhere near red-hot.

This is the chart I referenced:
TemperColors.jpg



Personally, I fully expect both brake glow and scrape-sparking to appear in the release version of GT5; if GT4 had both, I find their absence in GT5 unlikely. :sly:

-General
 
I was not referring to the luminosity of steel, simply the range of temper colors steel exhibits as it is heated. For example, a twist-drill with uneven edge angles will run hot on one side, often producing a long, tightly-curled steel chip that is deep blue and extremely hot, but nowhere near red-hot.

This is the chart I referenced:
TemperColors.jpg



Personally, I fully expect both brake glow and scrape-sparking to appear in the release version of GT5; if GT4 had both, I find their absence in GT5 unlikely. :sly:

-General

+1
that settles it :)
 
I was not referring to the luminosity of steel, simply the range of temper colors steel exhibits as it is heated. For example, a twist-drill with uneven edge angles will run hot on one side, often producing a long, tightly-curled steel chip that is deep blue and extremely hot, but nowhere near red-hot.

This is the chart I referenced:
TemperColors.jpg



Personally, I fully expect both brake glow and scrape-sparking to appear in the release version of GT5; if GT4 had both, I find their absence in GT5 unlikely. :sly:

-General


On the other hand the thread is about the brakes glowing not the colour it tempers too once cooled. :)
 

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