How American is your car?

[Kylehnat]

My car is 0% American. I must be a traitor.

 

[Tornado]

Some kind of Nazi or something, I'm guessing.




Oh, and if Fiat comes back to the U.S.? Grande Punto in second. At least.

 

[YSSMAN]

Oh, and if Fiat comes back to the U.S.? Grande Punto in second. At least.

...Only until the C4 shows up...

C4 FTW!

 

[Tornado]

Citreon will sell another car in this country as soon as Pontiac sells another mid-engine car.
Getting essentially thrown out by the U.S. government probably didn't do much for U.S.-France relations.

 

[Barracuda]

You can't be a true car person and hate a car company based on origins. Japanese cars have done nothing against the US, if anything they have provided jobs to a slipping economy. I'm not a huge American car fan but I can tell you some decent ones (non sports cars).

Hmmm lets see. we were going fine then bam, oil embargo. muscle cars couldn't cut it with the gas prices and the japanese moved in for the kill. everybody started buying japanese cars because they got great gas mileage despite how stupid they were. American car companies started struggling trying to compete with sales, forcing some companies like chrysler to almost have to go out of business (the government actually gave them 2 million dollars to keep them alive)

remember that? so dont you tell me.

so to be a true car person i have to like cars such as the civic and corolla? somebody kill me now, please.

sorry its just a really touchy subject with me.

 

[Dave A]

He's simply saying you shouldn't hate a car because of it's origins, if you hate Civics and Corollas because they don't appeal to you then fine, but don't hate a car because it's Japanese.

 

[Joey D]

Watch your language, there is NO reason to swear like that.

People in America buy Japanese cars because test after test by car magazines and Consumer's Report rate them higher then American cars. Most people in America are looking for a good reliable car that doesn't cost them a whole lot to drive...yes there are people looking for performance, but there isn't a huge number of them. Why do you think the Camry not only sells spectacularly but also wins Car of the Year? It's because it's a great car and people see that, if it was rubbish people would have stopped buying them years ago.

I don't remember the oil embargo, I wasn't born yet. But I do know about it, and they got a hold of the market because they were building good cars and they continued to build good cars. Look around you where ever you may live and see how many early 80's Cavilers you see and how many early 80's Accords you see. Tell me which one lasts longer.

To be a true car person you can't hate a car because of where it comes from, you have to be able to realize that good and bad cars can come from everywhere. The Civic and Corolla are both great little cars and one can see by the sales that it is the truth, you can dislike them for whatever reason but that does not make them bad cars. You should respect it for what they are.

My car is 0% American. I must be a traitor.

You Communist .

 

[Barracuda]

Watch your language, there is NO reason to swear like that.

People in America buy Japanese cars because test after test by car magazines and Consumer's Report rate them higher then American cars. Most people in America are looking for a good reliable car that doesn't cost them a whole lot to drive...yes there are people looking for performance, but there isn't a huge number of them. Why do you think the Camry not only sells spectacularly but also wins Car of the Year? It's because it's a great car and people see that, if it was rubbish people would have stopped buying them years ago.

I don't remember the oil embargo, I wasn't born yet. But I do know about it, and they got a hold of the market because they were building good cars and they continued to build good cars. Look around you where ever you may live and see how many early 80's Cavilers you see and how many early 80's Accords you see. Tell me which one lasts longer.

To be a true car person you can't hate a car because of where it comes from, you have to be able to realize that good and bad cars can come from everywhere. The Civic and Corolla are both great little cars and one can see by the sales that it is the truth, you can dislike them for whatever reason but that does not make them bad cars. You should respect it for what they are.



You Communist .

im pretty sure that i see 80's cavaliers EVERYWHERE and rarely see 80's accords so i don't get your point there. Cavaliers last pretty long, were i used to live ALOT of people drove cavaliers for their first car and never had a problem with them. all the accords, if you did actually see one, were completely rotted

and i doubt the accords are any safer. my cousin drove a cavalier and one winter he hit some black ice and was cought in a head with a truck that had a plow on it at 30+ mph. he emerged completely unscaved. Im glad he wasn't driving an accord or else i may not have my cousin today.

These magazines dont tell the full truth. Mr john smith looks for a car not even knowing what a alternator does. he looks in a magazine and says " this magazine say the honda civic is a safe car, i think ill buy one ". what he doesn't know is that a collision at even less than 10mph will completely total his car like someone stepping on a soda can costing him alot of money depending on if he has insurance.

I finally realize why civic sales are so high. They total so easy so the insurance companies have to keep replacing them

 

[Tornado]

They total so easy so the insurance companies have to keep replacing them

Technically, that means they are probably safer.

 

[Barracuda]

Technically, that means they are probably safer.

you do bring up a good point there. I was jk about that last line though, decided to throw a little humor in there

 

[Joey D]

Accords may be rusted but they will run next to forever, Cavilers on the other hand will not. They were garbage when they were introduced, they were garbage throughout their life, and when they died they were still garbage.

I doubt any 80's small car was safe, heck 80's cars in general weren't overly safe. They had no airbags and weren't exactly overly nannied by the government yet. I remember my mom used to own a Pontiac Sunbrid and it was in a pretty bad encounter with a Toyota truck from the time, it didn't fare so well.

But I fail to see your point with the accident, I've been in an accident when I was doing 60mph and I walked away just fine. It's more about physics then anything, plows tend to give, they aren't as strong as an engine block.

But Civics are unsafe huh? Well for kicks and giggles lets compare the safety rating of a 07 Civic to a 07 Cobalt. Guess what? The Civic is a safer car, in fact it's a very safe car in general, not just when compared to the Cobalt. To say the Civic is unsafe is just ignorant.

Here is the chart:

But if you don't take the word of the car magazine, who has testers out doing their job, then who are you going to trust? You can't drive every car under the sun.

Think what you want about the Civic, it's still better then any America trash compact on sale currently.

 

[Joey D]

Sorry slow GTP problems = double posting.

 

[turboash78]

Mine is American X2... Pontiac built in Lansing, MI (Blazin's neck of the woods).

 

[Barracuda]

again and again you try and put words into my mouth. this is about the 3rd time.

I never said the civic wasn't safe. I know with its one million billion airbags its safe, what i was saying is that it may be safe, but the body does fair well at all even during the most minor if little crashes. Thats why i compared that tin can of a car to a tin can.

 

[Tornado]

They were garbage when they were introduced, they were garbage throughout their life, and when they died they were still garbage.

I disagree. When the Cavalier debuted in '82 until about 1991 they were quite competetive.

I doubt any 80's small car was safe,

But I fail to see your point with the accident, I've been in an accident when I was doing 60mph and I walked away just fine.

And the irony of that is that Blazin does drive a generally unsafe vehicle (as do I), so a single accident can not be used to blanket state things.

But Civics are unsafe huh? Well for kicks and giggles lets compare the safety rating of a 07 Civic to a 07 Cobalt. Guess what? The Civic is a safer car, in fact it's a very safe car in general, not just when compared to the Cobalt.

I think that is unfair. The Cobalt in itself isn't really half bad, especially when compared to the Cavalier it replaced. The Cobalt is about on par with most of its competitors.

 

[Joey D]

You seemed to imply that the Civic was not safe. And the body looks like it holds up pretty well to me. Pics are from the NHTSA.

I disagree. When the Cavalier debuted in '82 until about 1991 they were quite competetive.

I guess I have to high of hopes for the thing, I keep forgetting the thing is like 20 years old.

And that white car, the name of it fails me, guess that's why I forgot it.

And the irony of that is that Blazin does drive a generally unsafe vehicle (as do I), so a single accident can not be used to blanket state things.

Most unsafe actually, the 2dr, 2WD Blazer is the most unsafe vehicle on American roads...yes I feel safe driving it.

And with the Civic comment I'm just showing it's one of the most safe compacts on the market today. And ya it might be unfair, but I just despise the living daylights out of the Cobalt, I just didn't like it, maybe it was the one I drove.

 

[Tornado]

And that white car, the name of it fails me, guess that's why I forgot it.

Dodge Shadow. 4 star driver, 5 star passenger. Nearly on par with the current Honda Civic. Made from 1987 to 1994.

Most unsafe actually, the 2dr, 2WD Blazer is the most unsafe vehicle on American roads...yes I feel safe driving it.

It does suffer rather excessively from Isuzu Rodeo effect, doesn't it? Then again, so does the Isuzu Rodeo. Even moreso than the Blazer, in fact.

 

[RouWa]

I think American car companies should try their luck a little bit more outside of North America. I haven't seen a single car dealer for American brands in the town where I live. You can simply not buy American cars here, unless you search the internet for the next car dealer. The only exception is Ford, but I think Fords for the German market are built here in Germany. That's why Ford is semi-German for me. The point is, that I will never buy a car I don't know. Neither relatives, nor friends of mine own an American car. I have absolutely no clue whether american cars suck or rule. I don't even know how they look like. I heard the names Ion, Sentra, Cobald and Caliber the first time ever in this topic. It seems to me American brands are in some kind of winter sleep. They should wake up and push into new markets.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Hmm...

My car was built in Gunma, Japan, from Japanese-sourced parts, by a Japanese company. All the mods on it are from Japanese companies, except the Rota wheels (Phillipines) and the short shifter (US).

I guess that makes my car .01% American? Oh... the tires are Bridgestone. So maybe .05%...

 

[Joey D]

Europeans wouldn't buy the American little cars. They aren't designed with the European crowd in mind. If you ever get a chance to come to America (I don't really recommend it) sit in a small American car, I doubt you'll like it. It will look and feel cheap, and have 1 trillion cup holders in it.

I heard the names Ion, Sentra, Cobald and Caliber the first time ever in this topic.

The Sentra is a Nissan, I don't know if Europe gets it or not though.

 

[a6m5]

Dodge Shadow was a piece of crap, but boy, was it fun to drive. 80's Cavalier is one of the worst car I have ever witnessed. I forget, but I also drove an 80's Oldsmobile car, which was almost as bad. Only word I can think to describe those two cars is horrid.

As for "99% American" or whatever, there is no easy way to tell. American cars(probably all cars) have parts made in all over the world. As Blazin mentioned, sensors, hoses, actuators, hinges, sheet metals, bolts, etc., etc., etc., they are made EVERYWHERE. From Japan, Germany to Mexico, Indonesia.

P.S. I don't really hear any "Buy American" slogans anymore, at least regarding cars. I think people are starting to catch on that many Japanese cars are built in the States, and many American cars are not. It's not like it's a secret that American companies are hiding or anything.

I'm guessing that because of the Union cost, American companies are forced to build their cars with cheaper labor?

 

[YSSMAN]

Why do you think the Camry not only sells spectacularly but also wins Car of the Year? It's because it's a great car and people see that, if it was rubbish people would have stopped buying them years ago.

Car of the Year? As far as I know, only one magazine gave the car that title, and that one was obviously bought by Toyota (read the issue, it is so blatantly pro-Toyota, it makes me sick...). Every other major automotive magazine has panned the car as uninspiring and rather dull compared to the competition. When an Accord that debuted four years ago can still beat-up on it, that may be a problem... Hell, even the Saturn Aura is rated better, and that managed to get Car of the Year as well.

Camrys sell well because they are rated highly by Consumer Reports (like you said), and given that most Americans only care to use a car as a piece of transportation, they figure the Camry is 'good enough' and just go with it...

Great car? Depends on your definition. I personally think there are far-better choices out there for the same amount of money, or hell, even less by comparison...

---

Mine is American X2... Pontiac built in Lansing, MI (Blazin's neck of the woods).

Which Pontiac is it? The G6 is built in Lake Orion (closer to Detroit). The Lansing plant(s) build the Sigma-chassis models (CTS, STS, SRX) and the GMT960s (Outlook, Acadia, Enclave).

---

I think that is unfair. The Cobalt in itself isn't really half bad, especially when compared to the Cavalier it replaced. The Cobalt is about on par with most of its competitors.

I know you and I have talked about it a lot, and I agree. Yes, it was targeted at the MKIV Jetta (obviously now replaced), but even then, the car is still relevant compared to most of the competition out there. I was looking at Cobalts today and while it is like pulling-teeth to get a stick in the trim level I would want, even the 'cheap' models that retail for a little over $13K are a screaming deal. Base model to base model, you are going to be getting more for your money compared to the Civic, and at least for me, it is kinda important to have automatic windows and locks, more importantly air-conditioning and a CD player... All of which aren't available (if I recall correctly) on the base-line Civic...

---

I think American car companies should try their luck a little bit more outside of North America. I haven't seen a single car dealer for American brands in the town where I live. You can simply not buy American cars here, unless you search the internet for the next car dealer. The only exception is Ford, but I think Fords for the German market are built here in Germany. That's why Ford is semi-German for me. The point is, that I will never buy a car I don't know. Neither relatives, nor friends of mine own an American car. I have absolutely no clue whether american cars suck or rule. I don't even know how they look like. I heard the names Ion, Sentra, Cobald and Caliber the first time ever in this topic. It seems to me American brands are in some kind of winter sleep. They should wake up and push into new markets.

Do you mind if I do a list? It helps me think better....

- American car companies do sell their products in Europe, however, most of their product line is radically different compared to that of the 'home market.'
- American cars are on-sale, but depending on where you are in Europe, they are going to be easier/harder to find based on location. It has always been my understanding that Germans drive German cars, almost no-matter-what, however I hear that the Swedes and the Dutch, as well as a minority of the English love American cars...
- Never buying a car 'you don't know' is a reasonable idea. Thats why Daewoos and Suzukis have never sold well in America. Every time someone sees on here they'll say 'Whats that?'
- Truely American cars, the ones that are sold primarily in the American market are both good and bad, and largely depends on the specific model and what you are comparing it against. Cars like the Corvette, Viper, S7, etc are obviously leaders in the sportier segments, but those would probably be the only outstandingly good cars on an international scale. Most of the American models have been on a sliding scale, much of which has been improving... GM's portfolio is looking better than ever, Ford is doing a good job with their new products, and Chrysler... Well, lets just say they are putting in an effort.
- If you want to get a good sense of what we drive in America, I'd suggest you check out Chevrolet, Cadillac, Ford USA, Lincoln, Dodge, and Chrysler. They all have some good and some bad models, but they would be what are considered to be the 'basic' and 'high-end' companies of GM, Ford, and Daimler-Chrysler here in America.
- The Ion, Sentra, Cobalt, and Caliber are all small-cars sold in America. Like Toronado said, the Sentra is a Nissan, but even I am not sure if they are sold in Germany. The Ion is a rubbish car that preceded the Cobalt and Astra (of which share a platfom), and the Astra will be replacing it this fall in the Saturn lineup. As noted, the Cobalt is a Chevrolet that shares a platform with the Astra, and is a pretty decent car in the US. In Europe, it probably wouldn't do too well... The Dodge Caliber is on-sale in Europe, but I'm uncertain of how popular the car has been, and how readily available they would be. Decent cars, but indeed is a stereotype of American cars... Cheap interior, okay exterior, so-so performance. Decent cheap car.
- The American companies have been in a 'winter sleep' since 1973, and the recovery has been a long-time coming. Since about 2000 or so, things have been getting better, and we have begun to regain some (not all) of the glory we once had...

...Interesting fact: The Opel GT that is on-sale in Germany was designed, and built, by Americans. The car is a carbon-copy of our Saturn Sky, albeit you get the turbo motor standard. They're built on the same production line in New Hapshire as our two American versions (Sky and Pontiac Solstice), and use quite a few parts from some of our other American cars...

---

So yeah...

 

[Joey D]

I would like to drive an Aura, I hear they are great cars. I sat in one at the NAIAS and thought it was very nice inside. It didn't feel like a Saturn at all and for that I am impressed. Saturn has come along way from where they were even 3 years ago.

 

[YSSMAN]

I completely agree. My Aunt is looking to buy a new car and I keep showing her the Aura. For not too much over $23K you can get a pretty well-equipped model. The thing that surprises me the most is the amount of room I have in the back seat (being over 6"), and generally how comfortable they are. The build quality is pretty darn good, not perfect, but on-par with the others out there.

...So it may be a direct Vectra rip-off, but I don't care. The car is awesome, and if I was shopping for a new family sedan, it would get my automatic vote...

I just wish they would offer a stick and an I4, but it won't happen...

 

[Joey D]

Hopefully the Astra won't suck, but really I don't think it can be much worse then the Ion.

 

[Roo]

- If you want to get a good sense of what we drive in America, I'd suggest you check out Chevrolet, Cadillac, Ford USA, Lincoln, Dodge, and Chrysler. They all have some good and some bad models, but they would be what are considered to be the 'basic' and 'high-end' companies of GM, Ford, and Daimler-Chrysler here in America.
- The Ion, Sentra, Cobalt, and Caliber are all small-cars sold in America. Like Toronado said, the Sentra is a Nissan, but even I am not sure if they are sold in Germany. The Ion is a rubbish car that preceded the Cobalt and Astra (of which share a platfom), and the Astra will be replacing it this fall in the Saturn lineup. As noted, the Cobalt is a Chevrolet that shares a platform with the Astra, and is a pretty decent car in the US. In Europe, it probably wouldn't do too well... The Dodge Caliber is on-sale in Europe, but I'm uncertain of how popular the car has been, and how readily available they would be. Decent cars, but indeed is a stereotype of American cars... Cheap interior, okay exterior, so-so performance. Decent cheap car.

In Britain, we get 3 Dodges: the Caliber, SRT-10 and the Ram. I see more Ferraris than Dodges - I've seen 2 Calibers since they were released here. All the reviews I've seen of it are pretty much the same as this although owners tend to like them more. We get the Nissan Note (as does Germany), the Astra (Vauxhall here, Opel in Germany), and Chevrolet Lacetti (a rebadged Daewoo, as almost all the Chevrolets we get are). The Lacetti, particularly the Chevrolet badged ones, I rarely see at all. We don't offically get the Corvette but, like the Mustang, there's plenty of importers who'll bring it over. Apparantly we also get Cadillacs, although I had no idea we did.

The Astra is fairly well received here - one of the better Vauxhalls.

 

[Pupik]

The USA Today list is partially wrong about the Lexus RX 350:

Some are 60% built in Canada, 40% Japanese, since they start at the Cambridge, Ontario plant. They have a "2" as the first digit of the VIN, and a "C" in the 11th digit. But there are others that are 95% Japanese content, 5% American; they start out at Kyushu, Japan. They have a "J" as the first digit of the VIN, naturally.

USA Today didn't check their homework before turning it in.

 

[Gil]

I'll warn you now, this is likely to turn into a rant:
For the faint of heart skim/skip this post.

The American car industry has been dying a slow death for many years.
Part of it is poor engineering, quality control, etc.
Part of it is that the Steel industry, and the Auto industry, in order to keep wages/benefits the highest of any union profession in the nation, did much in the past to prevent newer, better production methods for steel.

It kept auto industry workers, and steel workers among the highest paid blue-collar workers in the country.
It was great for the people, but pretty much hamstrung both industries.
The unions have also priced the workers out the market. This while lining union leaders pockets. But they have, to great extent taken care of the workers. Right up to the point where they priced them out of jobs.

So, If I have to drop $30,000 on a vehicle, (and pretty much everything above your basic econobox will be in that neighborhood) My choices are not that great or interesting in any of the American Manufacturers' showrooms, unless you're talking trucks. But Japan is catching up quick in that area.

If you look around, what are the oldest cars you see the most of on the road?
It isn't the American cars.
You get out past about 5-7 years, American cars are not well represented, or they are turning into beaters. Why else is it possible to pick up an 5-year old Escort or Cavalier for about a third of their original price?

But when you look at the Camrys, Corollas, Accords, Civics, Sentras, Maximas, 3-Series BMW's etc, not only are there plenty of them out there that are "old-timers" they tend to be good running cars. And the prices on the used car market bear that out.

My mini-van (a Plymouth Voyager) was around for over 10 years, with over 150,000 miles on it. Unfortunately, in that time frame I had 2 partial rebuilds, and 1 complete rebuild of the 2.2L engine. I basically paid for that van twice. Once to purchase it, and all the money that went into keeping it running.
And it never ran really well after the first partial rebuild at the 30,000 mile mark.

By the same token, I had a Sentra that I also drove for more than 10 years, maintained indifferently, (I was pretty poor at that time), and it gave me minimal problems. I replaced a clutch and a timing belt. Not cheap, but not on the order of 3 engine rebuilds.

I will admit that my current Fords and Chevies have been reliable. However, the Chevies were poorly designed. Both the Lumina and the Venture have the batteries under the windshield washer resevoir. The Venture has to have the engine jacked up off of the motor mounts to replace the spark plugs! And one of the worst design feature is the Head and Tail-lights.
On the Venture, most of the front end has to come off so the headlight assemblies can be removed and the bulbs replaced. It is a multi-hour job that is best taken to the dealer. On my Camry, it takes about ten minutes (including the 7-minutes of kibbutzing with your buddy that brought over the beer so you could watch the game).
The taillights on the Venture are just as bad.
The job not only requires removal of the taillight assemblies, it requires a very long Torx-driver, that for many will require a second trip to the parts store. At least it is a job that can be completed by the average shadetree mechanic.
Battery replacement is a nightmare, as it requires the removal of a cross member, and the washer resevoir.
If the job is taken to anyone but the dealer (who charges about $200, 85 for the battery, the rest is labor) I can just about guarantee it will take two trips, cause they will forget to hook the hoses back up to the bottom of the resevoir, necessitating taking the whole mess apart again. At least they are reliable.
My Fords have been reliable, but with the exception of the trucks have had some shoddy quality issues. Thankfully nothing that interfered with the car's running, but trim falling off, switches breaking.

If this is the kind of build quality that we can expect from the big 3, why is anyone surprised that my one of my favorite cars is my Japanese badged, American assembled Toyota?

 

[Joey D]

I know what you are saying about pain in the behind lamp assemblies, I had to replace a bulb in my tail lamps and I think it must have taken me 45 minutes. You basically have to disconnect the tailgate in order to reach the screws hold the thing into place.

 

[JCE]

If you look around, what are the oldest cars you see the most of on the road?
It isn't the American cars.
You get out past about 5-7 years, American cars are not well represented, or they are turning into beaters.

Sometimes a beater isn't a bad thing. While my 2007 Focus is in the shop I had to drive my old ass Camaro with 237k miles on it and it ran like a champ. I see plenty of older American cars (mostly pickup trucks) around here locally. Infact, I see more Hondas on the side of the motorway dead than I do American cars.

You claimed your car was 100% American, I'm calling you on it. And where you are from doesn't make one bit of difference.

Hmm, I'd definately like you to go back where you came from. You came back with some kind of attitude problem and I don't think I'm alone in noticing that. I never said my Camaro was 100% American I said it was slightly less than that--and then I proceeded to add a JOKE by stating that I took out my interior including what I jokingly stated was not American and you took that like it was gospel. It was just a playful comment that YOU insisted on blowing out of proportion. Get a life or get a clue, I hope you're not back to start trolling because that would be annoying.