How do different lineup work?

[ppucci]

Guys, it there any logic on how the linup is set when you enter a race? I mean, is there a lineup (or a group of cars, more than 6) already made for each car? Or they are just randomly chosen? I remember a couple of time where I kept being beaten on a couple of races, went back, powered-up a little, and when I came back, all the good cars were gone!

 

[gt_masta]

well IF I understood your question , then no there is no pre -made line up(except for some races with only one car participating), they're random cars from a chosen category. Hope that was what you were asking for

 

[95GTIVR6]

I have discovered that if you race a stock car in some races and you get WHOOPED and then you go modify the car. Then when you re-enter the race, the cars you are competing against will be slow as crap and the a-spec points will differ greatly from before. Im not talking about a full race-prep. car either. Im talking about mild tunes.

However sometimes it doesnt matter. My logic when it comes to racing is to enter a race with a stock car and then if the competition kills you then "Retry" the race and this time install your tuned settings.

I always try and win a race with a stock car first before modifying it. Then if you need to buy a sport tune and re-try etc, etc, etc.

 

[Dave A]

In the campionships and event races in GT mode the linups are selected from a set number of cars for example the FF races use 6 cars from a pre-selected selection. The spot races and arcade races just choose a car by the power and weight in relation to the car you're in, the size of the difference changes depending on the AI difficulty chosen.

 

[Diego440]

it's random, based on a group of cars destined to each race. For example, Plyphony Digital Cup has a "floating" variety of cars, which change from championship to championship. you may find yourself racing against a RX-7, a Ford GT, an Honda CR-X and others: quit and return and you're up against a Pug 106, a a Merc SL55AMG, a RX-7 '85 and others. Quit and start again and you'll end up repeating most cars.... that¡s just an example, it's the same with every race/championship, except a few ones where you'll probably always get the same opponents, like the F1 races, for example.

 

[ppucci]

well IF I understood your question , then no there is no pre -made line up(except for some races with only one car participating), they're random cars from a chosen category. Hope that was what you were asking for

Yeah, that's sort of what I was asking... I mean, for example, if you go to a race with a Camaro, is there a lineup for that race designed for the camaro? Or is there, let's say, 10, 15 cars to be used in the lineup on that particular race? Just trying to figure out how does it work... sometimes when you re-enter a race (not retry, it will keep the same cars), it comes with the same 5 cars, sometimes it willl come up with 5 totally different cars...

 

[Dave A]

The linup isn't set for each car YOU use, theres a set number of cars chosen for each series and the game picks 6 out of that set, since it's a pre-selected set chosen by the makers there are some occasions where the AI appears in cars you arn't allowed to enter which must have been an oversight.

 

[ppucci]

....and the game picks 6 out of that set....

5

YOU are the 6th

 

[Dave A]

You spotted my er.... deliberate mistake, yeah thats what it was, honest.

 

[route_66]

5

YOU are the 6th

Yes indeed. But your car DOES have some bearing on the lineups - jdw and WildCobra are the experts on this, but they're not here so I'll do my best.....

The AI is chosen from a pool of Cars for the Series (Maybe 10-15 or so) and the first lineup you get will be random. If you reenter in a (much) lower powered car then it's likely that the line ups may fork - a worse car will get the lower end of the opponents. It's easier to just go and try it than for me to explain it - get an old muscle car and enter it in the 1000miles series - you'll be up against Cobra's, Vettes or the 300SL. Now if you reenter with a Fiat 500 (for example, not that it can win) or the VW Karmann (which can win) then the best AI car is likely to be either the Mini Marcos or the Alfa 1600. Keep reentering it does work. jdw will have to explain the order the line ups appear in, as I'm not sure that I can do it right. PM him, i'm sure he won't mind helping you out.

66.

 

[rsmithdrift]

I noticed with the 1000 Miles! race that if you watch the preview the lineup matches the performance of the car that's taking your place. But those cars are always stock. No matter how tuned your car is. Also the A-Spec point system is flawed, it doesn't take tire type into consideration. Ex, I ran the same race and only changed tire type from N1's to Racing Slics Super Soft, and got the same amount of A-Spec points. WTF??!! I usually have a close race at 10 points because I like to race with N2's and max balast with stock car. I feel that that should be a 100 or so point race. Cause if I change to sports tires I kill them and still get 10 points.

 

[route_66]

I noticed with the 1000 Miles! race that if you watch the preview the lineup matches the performance of the car that's taking your place. But those cars are always stock. No matter how tuned your car is. Also the A-Spec point system is flawed, it doesn't take tire type into consideration. Ex, I ran the same race and only changed tire type from N1's to Racing Slics Super Soft, and got the same amount of A-Spec points. WTF??!! I usually have a close race at 10 points because I like to race with N2's and max balast with stock car. I feel that that should be a 100 or so point race. Cause if I change to sports tires I kill them and still get 10 points.

What stock car are you using? The A-spec points DO take tyres into account (very much so!) 1000 miles is hard to get points for because the lead car is often waaaayyyy better than the rest of the field (Cobra vs Fiat anyone?) Unless you use a car with <100hp then the points will stick at 10 whatever you do.

66.

 

[Sti04]

I've read that Power Weight Ratio plays big roll in A-spec system. I think it was posted by Famine, which I think it's very true. Give it a try.

 

[rsmithdrift]

I've read that Power Weight Ratio plays big roll in A-spec system. I think it was posted by Famine, which I think it's very true. Give it a try.

Oh, I think it's all power to wieght ratio. It doesn't care about handling at all. Changing suspension, LSD, Aids, Clutch, Tranny, none of that changes it at all.

And the one I was refering to was an RX-8 type S in the one make race. Changing everything but power or wieght made no diff. in A-spec points. 10 point race with N1's or S3's Didn't matter. I tuned it but didn't do anything that couldn't be undone (ie. wieght reduction, Engine balancing, etc) and I ran it stock 'cept for the tires and 200kg balast.

I also did this in the 70's Race in Japanese Events with the same results. In my opinion it could care less about tire type.

The reference to the 1000 Miles was on a different topic. I used a Stock 427 Shelby Cobra for that and killed them. Even the other Cobra I was racing. 7 point race, every one of them.

 

[Sti04]

Oh, I think it's all power to wieght ratio. It doesn't care about handling at all. Changing suspension, LSD, Aids, Clutch, Tranny, none of that changes it at all.

And the one I was refering to was an RX-8 type S in the one make race. Changing everything but power or wieght made no diff. in A-spec points. 10 point race with N1's or S3's Didn't matter. I tuned it but didn't do anything that couldn't be undone (ie. wieght reduction, Engine balancing, etc) and I ran it stock 'cept for the tires and 200kg balast.

I also did this in the 70's Race in Japanese Events with the same results. In my opinion it could care less about tire type.

Normally if you enter a one make race with exactly same car as opponents, you should be getting 60pts. Ex. F1 series. And IMO, I think tires and down force also effect your A-spec points.

 

[jdw]

Alright... let's see if I can explain this.

• For every race there is a pool of cars for the game to choose from. The pool is different in every race.

• The game randomly chooses from the pool who you will compete against

• From console reset, the first lineup is always the same.

• From console reset, given Car A in Race A, the set of lineups is always the same. (For people who understand computers - the lineups are completely deterministic)

• The car YOU take into the race does affect which set of lineups you'll be racing against. (Well, except for the first lineup. All cars will see the same first lineup.) The cars selected are still random, but the weaker the car you take in the weaker the lineups you face will tend to be. In other words, you won't all of the sudden have a string of really easy lineups. It's just that you'll see more easy lineups with a weak car than a strong car.

• As route was getting at, lineups fork. The game has it's own idea of what cars are "close" to each other. The "closer" the game thinks two cars are to each other, the more likely they will encounter the same set of lineups, at least for a while. Usually, at some point, the lineups will fork and Car B will get different lineups than Car A. The farther apart the game thinks two cars are from each other, the *sooner" the fork will occur (usually in the 2nd lineup).

Other related tidbits:

• Power-to-weight is important, but it only accurately reflects points differences about 80-90% of the time. There are a LOT of cases where you can get fewer points with a car that has a higher PWR.

• The game seems to have a base value for every car stored on the disc. This value is changed according to the 5 things that affect points.

• A-spec points are not all Power-to-Weight, It's all 5 things:
  1) Your opposing Lineup
  2) HP
  3) Weight
  4) Tires
  5) Downforce

• If you have the exact same car as the CPU (true of a few one-makes), you get 60p . So, for the game, 60p == race of equivalent cars.

• You are racing against stock cars in only about half of the races. In a lot the remaining races, the lineups will be mixed . Some cars will be modded, some will be stock. In many of the races, the game has an hp line. Cars that, stock, are below that line are modded by the game until they're close to the race's hp line. IF the car, stock, already starts with higher HP, it will keep the HP it started with.

For example - Here are all the cars you could encounter in Tuning Car (NTSC):

| VS (MIXED/SS): HPA Stage II R32[522], RUF CTR2[514], RUF CTR Yellow Bird[462]
| Skyline GTR R-tune[452], Falcon RX-7[403], RUF BTR[396], RUF RGT[394],
| Spoon S2000[393], Trial Celica SS-II[393], Mine's Lancer Evo VI[394],
| Amuse S2000[388], Nismo Fairlady Z Z-tune[384], Opera Perf S2000[391],


The HP "line" in Tuning car is 400hp. So, the Amuse, Mine's Evo and other cars are souped up to near 400hp. But the HPA and CTR2 retain their stock HP.


Well, I hope I explained that well enough...
Ask if you have any other question.

FWIW: I have all the AI cars you could face for every race now. I just haven't managed to finish the FAQ to release it. If anyone wants a copy to peek at, PM me their email addy and I'll send along by A-spec/Race Guide "permanently under construction" "always in Beta" FAQ


(The HP and tires were collected by PREVIEWing the race).

 

[route_66]

Alright... let's see if I can explain this......

Cheers mate, knew you'd be here to sort this one out 👍

As for the A-spec points, they are dependent on:-

Power
Weight (including ballast)
Tyres
Downforce
Opposition Cars (line-up)

They are irrespective of:-

Transmission upgrades
Suspension upgrades
Brakes

This is fact. I might not be so good on Lineups, but I know my A-spec points.

66.

 

[rsmithdrift]

Cheers mate, knew you'd be here to sort this one out 👍

As for the A-spec points, they are dependent on:-

Power
Weight (including ballast)
Tyres
Downforce
Opposition Cars (line-up)

They are irrespective of:-

Transmission upgrades
Suspension upgrades
Brakes

This is fact. I might not be so good on Lineups, but I know my A-spec points.

66.

Hey, my game is acting normall now. Must have been a glitch or something 'cause I just did the same races and made the same changes and got the results I should have. 60 A-spec and a tight race with stock car, 98 A-spec with N2 tires. So it's normal now. Thanks for explaining it tho. I understand now.

 

[chevguy]

Some cars will be modded, some will be stock. In many of the races, the game has an hp line. Cars that, stock, are below that line are modded by the game until they're close to the race's hp line. IF the car, stock, already starts with higher HP, it will keep the HP it started with.

So the cars you race against are NOT always stock. Now it makes so much more sense how a Toyota MR2 (120ish HP) can beat a 200+ hp 300zx. I've been trying to figure that out for days now.

So does the AI only modify the HP, or can it sometimes modify other things like suspension or drive train?

 

[Sti04]

So the cars you race against are NOT always stock. Now it makes so much more sense how a Toyota MR2 (120ish HP) can beat a 200+ hp 300zx. I've been trying to figure that out for days now.

So does the AI only modify the HP, or can it sometimes modify other things like suspension or drive train?

true that, I've seen a Lotus Elise 190 with 490ish hp.

 

[ppucci]

Alright... let's see if I can explain this.

• If you have the exact same car as the CPU (true of a few one-makes), you get 60p . So, for the game, 60p == race of equivalent cars.

JDW, thank you for your reply, it was very consolidating for me

So, based on what you said, the closer to 60 A-Spec points you race, it will be a more competitive race?

Another thing that has been bugging me... can anybody define "stock"? Is it when you do not buy ANY parts whatsoever for your car, I mean, the very same way the come out of the dealer? 'Cause I had a totally different knowledge of the word stock, as for a totally modified car... (localization problems? )

 

[route_66]

JDW, thank you for your reply, it was very consolidating for me

So, based on what you said, the closer to 60 A-Spec points you race, it will be a more competitive race?

Another thing that has been bugging me... can anybody define "stock"? Is it when you do not buy ANY parts whatsoever for your car, I mean, the very same way the come out of the dealer? 'Cause I had a totally different knowledge of the word stock, as for a totally modified car... (localization problems? )

Nearly right - 60 points means the cars are equal in spec, not the drivers! So you may find you need a higher points rating to have a competitive race (This is not absolute, the points are only a vague guage of race difficulty). The higher the points are (generally) the harder the race will be. Be warned though, it is a vague way to judge difficulty, but it works most of the time.

As for "Stock," this is taken to mean straight from the dealer, no mods, no tyre upgrades, no nothing, Rather than "Stock Car Racing," which I think you have it confused with. Hope this helps.

66.

 

[rsmithdrift]

Nearly right - 60 points means the cars are equal in spec, not the drivers! So you may find you need a higher points rating to have a competitive race (This is not absolute, the points are only a vague guage of race difficulty). The higher the points are (generally) the harder the race will be. Be warned though, it is a vague way to judge difficulty, but it works most of the time.

As for "Stock," this is taken to mean straight from the dealer, no mods, no tyre upgrades, no nothing, Rather than "Stock Car Racing," which I think you have it confused with. Hope this helps.

66.

This makes no sense. I bought an RX-8 type S, went straight to the one make race(didn't go to any shops or do an oil change nothing), and I only got 10 points for the race. I even ran 200kg of ballast in one of them and still got 10 points. Is this a glitch in this series? It was the NR-A RX-8 Cup in Mazda Dealership. 'Cause I get 60 points in all the other one-make races.

 

[Sti04]

This makes no sense. I bought an RX-8 type S, went straight to the one make race(didn't go to any shops or do an oil change nothing), and I only got 10 points for the race. I even ran 200kg of ballast in one of them and still got 10 points. Is this a glitch in this series? It was the NR-A RX-8 Cup in Mazda Dealership. 'Cause I get 60 points in all the other one-make races.

Is there more than just one model of RX-8 from Mazda dealership? I really don't remember, but if there is, my guess is that you probably have bought a better model. That's just my guess, it can be wrong.

 

[jdw]

So the cars you race against are NOT always stock. Now it makes so much more sense how a Toyota MR2 (120ish HP) can beat a 200+ hp 300zx. I've been trying to figure that out for days now.

So does the AI only modify the HP, or can it sometimes modify other things like suspension or drive train?

That's right.

Although, I *think* the MR2 in the MR Challenge and Spider & Roadster is stock. It's an MR2 GT-S with 244hp. Gotta check the model too

Of course, the one in Clubman is souped up to 308hp.

No clue what the computer does with dt/su mods. The only info the game offers is HP and tires (PREVIEW). There's nothing else to go on.

And then there's the one Frankenmonster in the game: The Motorsport Elise that sometimes shows up at El Cap Endurance with 493hp. It's a monstrosity/glitch because it CANNOT be reproduced!

 

[jdw]

This makes no sense. I bought an RX-8 type S, went straight to the one make race(didn't go to any shops or do an oil change nothing), and I only got 10 points for the race. I even ran 200kg of ballast in one of them and still got 10 points. Is this a glitch in this series? It was the NR-A RX-8 Cup in Mazda Dealership. 'Cause I get 60 points in all the other one-make races.

There are 3 RX-8s and you took the one that outpowers the other two.

Pick up a regular RX-8 and try it again.

 

[Dr_Watson]

What stock car are you using? The A-spec points DO take tyres into account (very much so!) 1000 miles is hard to get points for because the lead car is often waaaayyyy better than the rest of the field (Cobra vs Fiat anyone?) Unless you use a car with <100hp then the points will stick at 10 whatever you do.

66.

i got 100 with the C1 vette

 

[route_66]

This makes no sense. I bought an RX-8 type S, went straight to the one make race(didn't go to any shops or do an oil change nothing), and I only got 10 points for the race. I even ran 200kg of ballast in one of them and still got 10 points. Is this a glitch in this series? It was the NR-A RX-8 Cup in Mazda Dealership. 'Cause I get 60 points in all the other one-make races.

Look at this:

There are 3 RX-8s and you took the one that outpowers the other two.

Pick up a regular RX-8 and try it again.

tada, problem solved.

i got 100 with the C1 vette

Well done you, I nver said it was impossible, just unlikely. Did you win?

66.

 

[rsmithdrift]

Look at this:

tada, problem solved.


66.

Yeah, well I was up against 2 other RX-8 Type S, so I figured it shouldn't matter but usually it's a close race with a last lap pass for the win against my equivalent competition in a 2 lapper, but The other type S cars seemed way down on power, even when I ran the 200kg of balast I had a sizeable lead by the start of the second lap. Do you think that PD slowed them down to make a fairer race for the stock RX-8 type E?

 

[chinko]

Yeah, well I was up against 2 other RX-8 Type S, so I figured it shouldn't matter but usually it's a close race with a last lap pass for the win against my equivalent competition in a 2 lapper, but The other type S cars seemed way down on power, even when I ran the 200kg of balast I had a sizeable lead by the start of the second lap. Do you think that PD slowed them down to make a fairer race for the stock RX-8 type E?

the reason the others were slower is because the AI doesnt always go as fast as it should. ive literally blitzed it past an AI 787b in my black 787b with LESS hp on the sarthe straight