How do I be clean?

910
India
India
AfraidRacer
AfraidRacer17
I have had a wheel for about 1-2 months now, and I've been practicing quite a lot. I got a few wins in Sport Mode when the TTs were at Laguna Seca, but ever since then I have always managed to crash, spin or make contact in almost every race. I'm way too ruthless online, and I feel like blocking and weaving on straights because I hate losing positions. However, I never deliberately crash into other drivers, and have tried to maintain a good SR since getting a wheel. I'm currently at SR S, but my question is, how do I be clean?
 
2,519
Canada
Canada
1) As above, pick a line and stick to it. Inside defending is legit racing but PICK A LINE.

2) If no one is behind you, brake really earl and try for better exits

3) if someone is behind you, brake early (later than above though) to avoid being rear ended, there's a certain balance to this.

I'll post a video soon, it's uploading, that shows perfect defending and clean racing.
 

phillgt2002

.......
Premium
3,934
United States
United States
Interesting. Most players I've come across on Gran Turismo have a real-life interest in racing. When they see drivers in real-life adhering to on-track rules, they tend to take those rules and standards into the virtual world. When I first got into racing sims, I didn't watch motorsports, but when I started watching motorsports, I started taking interest in the rules when on the virtual track.

Needless to say, stop weaving back and forth, don't brake check and learn that you can always regain positions if the opportunity presents itself. If you haven't already, watch some motorsports videos and check out how they drive in the real world.
 
984
Singapore
Singapore
XSquareStickIt
I don't really understand where your mindset is... you say you want to be clean, yet you weave and block on straights because you hate losing positions. You seem to realise your shortcomings, saying that not only do you weave and block, but also by your own admission, you are way too aggressive when racing online, always making contact. The short answer would be to listen to what you're saying yourself. Do you want to be clean, or do you just want to win? Do you actually want to be clean, or do you only want the 99SR?

Don't get me wrong, rubbing's racing, and slight contact is inevitable, especially with online latency. However, there are certain things that are blatantly dirty, and blocking on the straights is the very definition of dirty.

If you want the long answer, I'll share my mindset when I race online. I try to be clean out of respect to my fellow racers and the sport. Racing is a test of skill, and a dirty pass doesn't prove to me than I am more skilled than others, because I took that position not by being faster, being more aware, or being more opportune. It doesn't make me happy even if I win if I need to be dirty to win. I have more fun earning the trust and respect of my competitors, so that we can have closer battles next time because I know he won't nudge me wide if I go 2 wide into a turn, for example. I respect that they too, play this game looking to have a good time, and I don't want to deprive them of that, or add to their problems. Games are meant to be fun, and the small communities that form with this trust is something I enjoy a lot more than winning every race.

Let enough faster people through, or challenge enough of them fairly, and you'll start to pick up on techniques used by these faster people as well, and you'll become a more savvy driver yourself. Heck, you can even chat them up after the race, ask for tips, what made them decide on their strategies, or even their setup. Ram your competitors off all the time, and you learn nothing.

I know I'm far from the fastest player in the game. I know there will be many faster than me. I know and accept that. If I'm doing daily races, the qualifying times should be a good indicator or skill level: I have no business being on the same track at the same time with someone who qualified a second faster than me, much less trying to overtake them.

I'm just speaking for myself, personally. I know you may not agree with my viewpoints, or find the same things fun. But that's my long winded answer to your question of "How to be clean". Hopefully it helps you be clean too.
 
579
Barbados
Barbados
Interesting. Most players I've come across on Gran Turismo have a real-life interest in racing. When they see drivers in real-life adhering to on-track rules, they tend to take those rules and standards into the virtual world. When I first got into racing sims, I didn't watch motorsports, but when I started watching motorsports, I started taking interest in the rules when on the virtual track.

Needless to say, stop weaving back and forth, don't brake check and learn that you can always regain positions if the opportunity presents itself. If you haven't already, watch some motorsports videos and check out how they drive in the real world.

Maybe one shouldn't watch Nascar. Just sayin'! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
910
India
India
AfraidRacer
AfraidRacer17
Looks like I haven't worded myself correctly. I would eventually like to be a fast, consistent racer who is respectful and gives space to others. I DO NOT ram or block and weave on straights, and I follow the basic rules of racing, but would like some help with the nuances. I have tried to maintain SR S since driving with a wheel, but I have 2 main questions, mostly about the psychology of racing.

1)I know that I'm overdriving my car, and make mistakes when I'm trying to go faster in around 50% of races. @NevilleNobody I'm having trouble picking a line, since I seem to have a different braking point every lap on some corners. If try driving under the limit, I seem to be really slow, and others catch up to me very quickly. How do I improve my consistency?

2)I'm very competitive, and any race where I lose positions is a bad race for me. @XSquareStickIt I would like to win fairly. However, at C/S I haven't had much overtaking experience, since people make a lot of mistakes and I gain places that way. I would just like to know, what is acceptable and what is not. For example is taking the middle line on Panorama's straight after T1 blocking? Is taking the proper racing line when someone is close bad racing?

@VBR Thanks! I read it, the first one answered my questions a bit, but I would like to know more about the nuances and mindset of racing.

EDIT-If you guys don't mind, I'll share my next Sport Mode race, and you can give me feedback.
 
Last edited:
984
Singapore
Singapore
XSquareStickIt
Before any race, it's a good idea to spend some time doing qualifying, not to set the fastest lap possible, but to make sure you know exactly the car and track combo.

Me personally, I'm usually a second per minute of track time slower than the top ten times, so if a top 10 time is a 2:02.5, for example, I'll keep doing laps in qualifying TT until I can hit 2:04.5. After that, I do even more laps, to make sure I can consistently hit the same times, within about 0.2 seconds of each other, before I enter a race. Of course, that's just my benchmark, everyone else will be different. Find what's realistic and works for you.

Doing so many laps in quali TT, you'll also get used to the car. You'll know exactly when to brake for a corner. Things like "turn 1 Fuji in this car with these tyres, I have to brake on that small exit road to the left right before the rumble strips start", for example. It's a great idea to use trackside scenery, distance marker boards, shadows, etc., to help you gauge your braking. Of course, not every corner of every track has this, but for most of the tracks in the game, there should be enough help. After a while, you'll get a good idea of how long it takes your car to stop, even without these markers. It's very important you know roughly your car's stopping distance as well, since if you're overtaking someone, you will never have your time trail line, and need to go a little slower as a result.

Another important thing is to always have your radar on. I don't understand why PD allows us to NOT look at it: it's indispensable in a game where you can't turn your head to see your surroundings. When making an overtake, you have to make sure to leave enough room for your opponent on the outside of the turn if you're in, and if you're being overtaken, that you leave enough room for them on the inside, meaning you don't meet the apex of a turn. Remember that the car in front of you has the right to decide the line they want to take, be it defensive or passive, but as others have pointed out as well, etiquette is to "pick a line and stick to it". If you're going to defend a turn, take the inside well before approaching a turn. Brake a bit earlier, and expect to not have the whole track width to yourself.

Bathurst is a bit of a bad example to work with... the track is narrower than most, and taking the middle line down a straight might or might not be blocking, depending on what car you're in, and whether you leave enough room for a faster opponent to pass. It's rude in my view to take the middle line on a straight: there's no real reason to do that, and any latency or lag can nudge your opponent onto the grass. If you want to defend, stick to the inside. If not, stay on the outside. On any other track, it's less of an issue: taking the middle line is being "semi defensive", and your opponent can choose to stay on the outside lr really dive in on the inside.

Lastly, if you're in a C/S lobby and people are crashing out, use that to your advantage. Drive safely and work on your own consistency instead of racing others. Let them crash out. Raise your DR to B and A, and that's where your opponents are faster and smarter, and you can race them properly.
 

Pigems

Premium
8,474
Canada
Canada
Looks like I haven't worded myself correctly. I would eventually like to be a fast, consistent racer who is respectful and gives space to others. I DO NOT ram or block and weave on straights, and I follow the basic rules of racing, but would like some help with the nuances. I have tried to maintain SR S since driving with a wheel, but I have 2 main questions, mostly about the psychology of racing.

1)I know that I'm overdriving my car, and make mistakes when I'm trying to go faster in around 50% of races. @NevilleNobody I'm having trouble picking a line, since I seem to have a different braking point every lap on some corners. If try driving under the limit, I seem to be really slow, and others catch up to me very quickly. How do I improve my consistency?

2)I'm very competitive, and any race where I lose positions is a bad race for me. @XSquareStickIt I would like to win fairly. However, at C/S I haven't had much overtaking experience, since people make a lot of mistakes and I gain places that way. I would just like to know, what is acceptable and what is not. For example is taking the middle line on Panorama's straight after T1 blocking? Is taking the proper racing line when someone is close bad racing?

@VBR Thanks! I read it, the first one answered my questions a bit, but I would like to know more about the nuances and mindset of racing.

EDIT-If you guys don't mind, I'll share my next Sport Mode race, and you can give me feedback.

I suggest reading this book, I found it quite helpful when I was first getting started. :)

EC8BC5EC-A818-45B6-AFA4-07898BCA2736.jpeg
 
2,928
England
England
kilesa4568
Tidgney's driving school is well worth a look for every facet of racing. Usually demonstrated on GTS too.

He helped cure my over driving when I always pushed too hard to catch up by reminding me how finite the grip (and talent) level is. We've got 100% grip (and talent) to play with split between 4 tyres with weight distribution constantly adding or subtracting as it sees fit. I just had to learn how far to back off to keep the car happier and was quicker overall as a result. A bonus was less time thinking about driving and more time to assess what was happening around me.

Driver61 fixed a huge bad habit of mine of not looking far enough ahead too. I was too busy trying to drive at 100% to pay any attention to what was happening around me and surprise reactions were costing way more time than they should have done...if I'd given myself more time to be aware.

We have to get a grip (pardon the pun) on the car rather than hope for the best and hang on for dear life in the race.
 
910
India
India
AfraidRacer
AfraidRacer17
Tidgney's driving school is well worth a look for every facet of racing. Usually demonstrated on GTS too.

He helped cure my over driving when I always pushed too hard to catch up by reminding me how finite the grip (and talent) level is. We've got 100% grip (and talent) to play with split between 4 tyres with weight distribution constantly adding or subtracting as it sees fit. I just had to learn how far to back off to keep the car happier and was quicker overall as a result. A bonus was less time thinking about driving and more time to assess what was happening around me.

Driver61 fixed a huge bad habit of mine of not looking far enough ahead too. I was too busy trying to drive at 100% to pay any attention to what was happening around me and surprise reactions were costing way more time than they should have done...if I'd given myself more time to be aware.

We have to get a grip (pardon the pun) on the car rather than hope for the best and hang on for dear life in the race.
Yeah, that's part of the reason why I always pick my Corvette Gr.3. It's very stable and doesn't try to kill me.
 
2,928
England
England
kilesa4568
Yeah, that's part of the reason why I always pick my Corvette Gr.3. It's very stable and doesn't try to kill me.

Very true about its stability but it (and you) can only go so far when you lean too hard on it. If you can keep the car and the seriously easy to get hot or dirty tyres happy, the car does as it's told, self inflicted crashes become a rarity and your overall race time will drop significantly.

I've been watching the top split strutting their stuff since GTS came out and other than one or two exceptions, they stick to their car's limit as they know what can happen if they go over it.
 
910
India
India
AfraidRacer
AfraidRacer17
Okay, I said that I would record my next Sport Mode race. If you have some spare time, please help me analyse my replay and tell me where I can become a better driver, whether it's cleanliness, consistency, or speed.
Details about me: C/S, Corvette Gr.3, wheel user since 1-2 months, never driven IRL,

Regarding the lap one incidents, I'm not sure what I should have done with the Corvette in the 200kph corner, braking would have probably made me get eaten up behind. The braking point after that, I missed because I got distracted by the spinning car.
For the lap 7 or 8 incident(I don't remember), I had basically two choices: brake late and probably get a huge penalty or go into the gravel, or brake early and maybe get away with only a little bit of contact. I chose to brake early, but can you tell me what else I could have done in situations like that?
 
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910
India
India
AfraidRacer
AfraidRacer17
Before any race, it's a good idea to spend some time doing qualifying, not to set the fastest lap possible, but to make sure you know exactly the car and track combo.

Me personally, I'm usually a second per minute of track time slower than the top ten times, so if a top 10 time is a 2:02.5, for example, I'll keep doing laps in qualifying TT until I can hit 2:04.5. After that, I do even more laps, to make sure I can consistently hit the same times, within about 0.2 seconds of each other, before I enter a race. Of course, that's just my benchmark, everyone else will be different. Find what's realistic and works for you.

Doing so many laps in quali TT, you'll also get used to the car. You'll know exactly when to brake for a corner. Things like "turn 1 Fuji in this car with these tyres, I have to brake on that small exit road to the left right before the rumble strips start", for example. It's a great idea to use trackside scenery, distance marker boards, shadows, etc., to help you gauge your braking. Of course, not every corner of every track has this, but for most of the tracks in the game, there should be enough help. After a while, you'll get a good idea of how long it takes your car to stop, even without these markers. It's very important you know roughly your car's stopping distance as well, since if you're overtaking someone, you will never have your time trail line, and need to go a little slower as a result.

Another important thing is to always have your radar on. I don't understand why PD allows us to NOT look at it: it's indispensable in a game where you can't turn your head to see your surroundings. When making an overtake, you have to make sure to leave enough room for your opponent on the outside of the turn if you're in, and if you're being overtaken, that you leave enough room for them on the inside, meaning you don't meet the apex of a turn. Remember that the car in front of you has the right to decide the line they want to take, be it defensive or passive, but as others have pointed out as well, etiquette is to "pick a line and stick to it". If you're going to defend a turn, take the inside well before approaching a turn. Brake a bit earlier, and expect to not have the whole track width to yourself.

Bathurst is a bit of a bad example to work with... the track is narrower than most, and taking the middle line down a straight might or might not be blocking, depending on what car you're in, and whether you leave enough room for a faster opponent to pass. It's rude in my view to take the middle line on a straight: there's no real reason to do that, and any latency or lag can nudge your opponent onto the grass. If you want to defend, stick to the inside. If not, stay on the outside. On any other track, it's less of an issue: taking the middle line is being "semi defensive", and your opponent can choose to stay on the outside lr really dive in on the inside.

Lastly, if you're in a C/S lobby and people are crashing out, use that to your advantage. Drive safely and work on your own consistency instead of racing others. Let them crash out. Raise your DR to B and A, and that's where your opponents are faster and smarter, and you can race them properly.
Thanks! I had read your post earlier, but I didn't have anything to add. Today, however, I got my first podium of the week, and I'm majorly happy! I had a shot at the podium for a few races, like this one, but I pushed a lot and got into a few incidents. I did 2:06/2:07 in the replay I posted, but my in my latest race I did a 2:07 every lap except one. I was 4th on the first lap, but after some bad luck I was in 5th. I kept my patience over the next few laps as I saw 3rd and 4th were battling, and I predicted they would hit each other in the braking zone of the back straight on lap 4 when I saw them. Turns out, they didn't even make it till there! They managed to go off at the small kink and 3rd place was mine! I kept cool, and finally came home with a podium!
 
4,183
United States
Nor Cal
sturk0167
Well, I wouldn't listen anyone else's opinion of what you should be doing. Since it's a game, and there really are no rules, do whatever you want that will allow you to maintain your preferred SR rating. The drivers who don't like it, may deal with it in a way you find unfavorable.

Some people don't mind some of the things that others are upset with. For example: getting hit from behind in a braking zone usually isn't going to upset me, because 90% of the time, it's accidental. However, getting rammed into a wall or pushed off the track on a straight, just because I'm passing someone, will assuredly result in a punt at the next possible opportunity (when the intent is obvious).

As someone else mentioned, Nascar allows drivers to physically push another car out of the way. Payback is inevitable, though. :mad:
Since there are hundred of racing series, each with their own set of rules, there's no universal list of racing rules.
As far as I know, GT Sport has zero official rules.

"Unwritten rules" aren't actual rules. ;)

So just do what you want, and if there are negative consequences, you'll probably make adjustments.

There's a dude I know of who has almost 2,000 wins, and maintains an average SR of @ 30. :scared: I guess he's happy doing things that way.
Live how you want to live. 👍
 
216
Austria
Austria
Well, let's see - I watched almost all race:

-lap 1 incident, you should have hit the brakes a bit and keep the racing line - cars behind would not have where to pass. The mountain is no place for moves like that...
- way too aggressive, going for any "gap" even if you can't make a move and losing a lot of time in the process. You have to remember that your first opponent in any race is the clock - race smart and pick your battles. Keep the racing line when you are not overtaking or defending - it's the fastest way around the track.
- drive the car like you would in real life on a circuit. Show respect to others, try to avoid contact even if the car in front spun and is ghosted - you will avoid nasty situations that way.
 
2,928
England
England
kilesa4568
Well, let's see - I watched almost all race:

-lap 1 incident, you should have hit the brakes a bit and keep the racing line - cars behind would not have where to pass. The mountain is no place for moves like that...
- way too aggressive, going for any "gap" even if you can't make a move and losing a lot of time in the process. You have to remember that your first opponent in any race is the clock - race smart and pick your battles. Keep the racing line when you are not overtaking or defending - it's the fastest way around the track.
- drive the car like you would in real life on a circuit. Show respect to others, try to avoid contact even if the car in front spun and is ghosted - you will avoid nasty situations that way.

I've deleted my reply to use yours.👍

@AfraidRacer I watched the video too and could see the same things as above. Try and calm it down a touch to make following the line easier and try and stop driving on your mirrors as much. A lot of the time, there was no need to and lap 8's incident could have been avoided if you'd taken your regular line and brake point as they didn't look like the dive bomb types.

Never driven and only two months in to using a wheel, you're doing ok and experience will smooth out any rough edges.:cheers: