How do I drift faster/more aggressively?

D-Max
It boils down realistically to a small list of things that determine your speed in a drift.

1. The drive-train and engine positioning of the car.So the car overall is a factor.
2. Your horsepower. if you have 1000hp the chances are you are more likely to spin the wheels which means you're not necesarilly faster, you're just better at dropping your grip levels. hence why Viper SRT10 ACR and ZR1 are just stupid cars.
3. Aerodynamics. the ZR1 and SRT10 ACR have a reasonably higher downforce number when at max which can allow a greater drifting pace.
4. The cars tyre width. Mainly the reason that Vipers, Vettes and the Ford GT are faster cars usually.
5. Your personal tune. you can increase the speed by playing around here and there and just making the car more controlable which in turn will allow more speed.
6. Last but not least, YOUR OWN ABILITY

Almost forgot, how you approach and exit the corner play a massive part aswell. It's something that you will learn over time, you can't just go out and do it I guess.
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I guess this is the best answer so far out of what I have seen. No matter what you do to the tuning, some cars will just always be faster than other cars. If you want to find a drift car that goes around corners really quickly, then look for one that has very wide tyres. But be aware, some more experienced drifters may not take it so kindly :scared: .
 
pergatory
Also, people who think comfort tires are harder to drift than sports tires need to put down the crack pipe. It's hard not to drift with comfort tires. That's like saying it's harder to blow bubbles in soap than water.
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You seem to be posting in a lot of threads showing your true pride/mindset on how comforts aren't harder to drift than sports. But, please do go into more detail on how it is harder to drift with.

I just want to see how it's harder to pull drifting techniques on a sports tire compared to a comfort tire.
 
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JrDarknes
FC is the Mazda Rx-7 Savanna 86-90

FD is the Mazda Rx-7 Efini 91-99 I think they made spirits in 02
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I'd like to supply my own answer (not saying it's better; yours is correct too, mine is just a bit more broad): FC is the 2nd generation RX-7, FD is the 3rd generation.

And I agree with what people are saying regarding tire choice. I can sustain a drift longer with CH tires than with CS tires. Speed isn't really a factor; people just want to pass you so they can feel like they're "winning"... even though they're not. Likewise, I only go between 40 and 60 MPH when I'm drifting, and it gets squirrelly at high speed. Just focus on getting as many points and drifting as clean as you can. People respect that.

To quote Wikipedia: "Overtaking the lead car under drift conditions is ok if you don't interrupt the lead car's drift.
Overtaking the lead car under grip conditions automatically forfeits that pass."
 
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Stavingo
You seem to be posting in a lot of threads showing your true pride on how comforts aren't harder to drift than sports. But, please do go into more detail on how it is harder to drift with.

I just want to see how it's harder to pull drifting techniques on a sports tire compared to a comfort tire.
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I don't think pride has anything to do with the facts...
 
Serjury
I don't think pride has anything to do with the facts...
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Well, lets just say penniless remarks about Comforts being easier to drift compared to Sports and I wanna eat milk and cookies while I hear it.
 
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pergatory
Also, people who think comfort tires are harder to drift than sports tires need to put down the crack pipe. It's hard not to drift with comfort tires. That's like saying it's harder to blow bubbles in soap than water.
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Are you calling me a drug user? I don't like that in all honestly. You should think about what you say. You sound like a tool!. Comfort tyres require more throttle and steering input END OF STORY!. It just does, no matter if your driving or racing!. It's just as simple as that. Therefore requiring more concentration which in the end up results in a better level of ability.

You use very little countersteer when using sports tyres. You power in to the corner and just use the power all the way round without needing to countersteer.

TOE angles effect ANY part of a motor vehicle whether you drive it slowly, race, or drift. You can't say " NO TOE GOOD". I'd be interested in hearing your actual experience of suspension geometry? (Not suprised if you're a super mechanic huh?) Anyone with common sense knows that any part of suspension geometry plays a huge part. I personally use -0.45 Toe or there abouts on all my cars because I like how it effects my car. I like how I drift with it. Not one person will have the exact same way of drifting, so not everyone will have the same feeling for a setup. I've setup cars for people and some have liked it, some haven't.

In future, don't come in all guns blazing thinking you know it all. Try talking and suggest what you think might help. I personally can't take your comment seriously and If I cared, I'd be really pissed off about the crack pipe remark.

YOU SIR, don't deserve to comment with the crap you just burbled.
 
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Drifting faster isnt necessarily drifting better. BUT if youre in a tokyo style drift race, less angle usually means you are going faster. Also, if you find the right lines for each corner (just like when racing) you can drift faster. But people who are trying to blast past you instead of drift with you are generally turds. Js.
 
motoraza
Drifting faster isnt necessarily drifting better. BUT if youre in a tokyo style drift race, less angle usually means you are going faster. Also, if you find the right lines for each corner (just like when racing) you can drift faster. But people who are trying to blast past you instead of drift with you are generally turds. Js.
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What the hell is a Tokyo style race? What they do in fast and furious?
 
Initial D is not the name of ANYTHING other than a t.v program :S. It's not a style of racing nor car or whatever people think. It's something on t.v. simple as that :)
 
D-Max
Comfort tyres require more throttle and steering input END OF STORY!. It just does, no matter if your driving or racing!. It's just as simple as that. Therefore requiring more concentration which in the end up results in a better level of ability.
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Comfort tires have less traction. Less traction means larger margin for error. Larger margin for error means EASIER. It's simple physics, I shouldn't have to explain this over and over. Any professional driver will confirm what I'm saying. That's why in professional grip racing with super-sticky tires when you see a car spin out, it's not a gradual loss of control like you'd see on comfort tires. They are gripping and then suddenly they exceed the threshold by a fraction of a percent and they are spun around backwards before they even know what happened.

If you're sideways mid-corner, and you floor it and bang against the rev limiter out of the blue, this generally won't kill your drift on comfort hards. You can do this and get away with it if you follow by letting off the throttle to compensate, and the car will continue the drift. If you're on sports tires and try to do this, you're going off the track. That's what I mean by margin for error. You can get away with more mistakes on comforts than on sports. With stickier tires, you have to be closer to the sweet spot at all times in order to pull off a smooth drift.

If someone wants to disagree with me fine, but please make sure you have some knowledge an experience to bring rather than stuff like this:

D-Max
You use very little countersteer when using sports tyres. You power in to the corner and just use the power all the way round without needing to countersteer.
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I do? No, you do. Don't assume anything about how I drive please, thank you. I drive exactly the same regardless of tire. Technique is the same, everything else is relative. What on earth makes you think you can't hit a corner full-lock countersteered on sports tires? Sounds like your problem isn't tires, but technique. In fact, the very fact that it sounds like you have trouble drifting on sports tires seems to support my point: it's harder!

D-Max
TOE angles effect ANY part of a motor vehicle whether you drive it slowly, race, or drift. You can't say " NO TOE GOOD". I'd be interested in hearing your actual experience of suspension geometry? (Not suprised if you're a super mechanic huh?) Anyone with common sense knows that any part of suspension geometry plays a huge part.
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I don't even know how to respond to this, this doesn't even make sense. I'm pretty sure it's not even English. I'd be interested in hearing YOUR experience tuning suspension. In my experience, toe only makes a car more unpredictable and is always a trade-off, unless you're accounting for changes in toe as suspension compresses and alters the suspension geometry. However, that's not something we're given control over in GT5. You're talking about toe under neutral load, and we have no way to know how it'll change under load, or even if it will (it's a game after all).

D-Max
I personally use -0.45 Toe or there abouts on all my cars because I like how it effects my car. I like how I drift with it. Not one person will have the exact same way of drifting, so not everyone will have the same feeling for a setup. I've setup cars for people and some have liked it, some haven't.
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I won't go so far as to say there's anything wrong with that, but that it is most likely slowing you down a little bit and negating your need for weight transition. Basically it's preventing you from learning how to drift correctly. Again I'm not saying you aren't drifting correctly, but that with that much toe out combined with comfort tires you wouldn't necessarily need to know how to do anything but powerslide.

D-Max
In future, don't come in all guns blazing thinking you know it all. Try talking and suggest what you think might help. I personally can't take your comment seriously and If I cared, I'd be really pissed off about the crack pipe remark.
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How about taking some of your own advice. I was offering mine in a constructive fashion. I apologize if the crack pipe remark offended you, but maybe you should think things out a little more thoroughly before posting things that are completely opposite of the truth next time.
 
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Wow...holy wall-o-text batman!

I still don't understand your whole arguemet about sports tires being harder to drift. When I drift on sports, I'm at full throttle the whole time...no feathering, no blipping, just foot to the floor. Because sports tires have so mch grip, slowing down is easy as pie as well. I find with sports tires, you can basically drift what you see...there's no need to think ahead and anticipate what's coming, as you can make corrections so easily.

Yes, it is easier to brake traction with comforts. That doesn't mean it's easier to drift. Sports tires are much easier to drift a single corner with. Where sports tires get tricky is during transitions. There's a reason real drift cars use street spec tires, and not sports or race tires...it's because they have too much grip.

Your argument, claiming sports is harder to drift than comfort, is the exact same as saying its harder to drift a formula 1 car compared to a D1 or FD car. Yes, it's sort of true...but it also makes you facepalm pretty hard.

Next...take your favorite drift car, on sports tires, to Tsukuba, and drift the last corner, start to finish. When doing do, take a look at your speedo, and make note of how fast you are drifting...then report back.

On comforts, I hit the apex of that corner at about 50 mph, and am doing 60 mph when I exit the corner on the far left. I'm curious to know how much faster you drift that corner on sports tires.

Finally, about Toe:

pergatory
I don't even know how to respond to this, this doesn't even make sense. I'm pretty sure it's not even English. I'd be interested in hearing YOUR experience tuning suspension. In my experience, toe only makes a car more unpredictable and is always a trade-off, unless you're accounting for changes in toe as suspension compresses and alters the suspension geometry. However, that's not something we're given control over in GT5. You're talking about toe under neutral load, and we have no way to know how it'll change under load, or even if it will (it's a game after all).
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So your experiences are the be-all end-all authority when it comes to tuning suspension? Just because your experiences lead you to feel one way about something, that doesn't make it the final word on the subject.

To me, when you say "toe just makes a car more unpredictable" indicates that you don't really know how to tune toe...because certain toe settings make a car much more stable, and much more predictable.

Lastly, nothing D-Max said is the "opposite of truth". In my books, a lot of what you said falls into the "opposite of truth" category much more than what D said.

Oh, and to clarify, when D said "you", pretty sure he meant the generic "you", not YOU specifically.
 
twitcher
I still don't understand your whole arguemet about sports tires being harder to drift. When I drift on sports, I'm at full throttle the whole time...no feathering, no blipping, just foot to the floor. Because sports tires have so mch grip, slowing down is easy as pie as well. I find with sports tires, you can basically drift what you see...there's no need to think ahead and anticipate what's coming, as you can make corrections so easily.
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I appreciate your effort to actually use logic. You clearly grasp the basics of drifting much better than D-Max. However, that doesn't change the bottom line. Are you arguing against sports tires have less margin for error than comfort tires? Because otherwise, you're not even making a dent in my case. The margin for error is everything.

twitcher
Your argument, claiming sports is harder to drift than comfort, is the exact same as saying its harder to drift a formula 1 car compared to a D1 or FD car. Yes, it's sort of true...but it also makes you facepalm pretty hard.
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It's not sort of true, it's absolutely true. I don't care if it does make you facepalm, drifting an F1 car with its real racing tires on would be godly. The reason nobody does it is because there are barely a handful of drivers in the world who could do it, and there would be constant multi-million-dollar crashes. It's not practical, but nobody can debate that it's harder. So really, doesn't this just further support my point that sports tires really are harder to drift on than comforts? I don't care if you think it's silly drifting on sports tires, but I do care when you try to claim comfort tires are the hardest ones to drift on when nothing could be further from the truth.

twitcher
So your experiences are the be-all end-all authority when it comes to tuning suspension? Just because your experiences lead you to feel one way about something, that doesn't make it the final word on the subject.
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Did you read my post? In addition to prefacing the very quote you gave with "In my experience," I specifically said: "I won't go so far as to say there's anything wrong with that."

twitcher
To me, when you say "toe just makes a car more unpredictable" indicates that you don't really know how to tune toe...because certain toe settings make a car much more stable, and much more predictable.
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More stable or more predictable? There's a difference. Toe-in can make it more stable, and toe-out will make it less stable and more prone to diving into the corner. However, either way, you'll get inconsistent behavior from the same steering & pedal inputs. You might have a certain slip angle through a corner but as you shift the weight of the car slightly, the slip angle might change more than you'd expect. Anyway, again, that's just my experience.

twitcher
Lastly, nothing D-Max said is the "opposite of truth". In my books, a lot of what you said falls into the "opposite of truth" category much more than what D said.
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Well then I'm glad I'm not going by your book, because he's flat-out wrong. Less traction = easier to drive. That's the bottom line. I haven't seen a single valid argument to the contrary, just remarks like "you can't countersteer as much with sports tires" which I really shouldn't even dignify with a response. (I need to work on that...)

twitcher
Oh, and to clarify, when D said "you", pretty sure he meant the generic "you", not YOU specifically.
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I know, it was a facetious response, my apologies. My point was that he was generalizing his own problems to the problems of sports tires, when there are no physical traits of sports tires that dictate any of the things he talked about such as not being able to achieve the same angle & amount of counter-steer.
 
Just an addendum, consider this: Do you find it easier to drift on wet pavement than dry pavement? Do you find it easier to drift in dirt than on pavement? Do you find it even easier to drift in snow?

This is exactly the same as the tire debate, except now you're talking road surfaces. The slicker the surface, the easier it is to drift. In fact, as it approaches the "slippery" end of the scale, you are almost forced to drift like the rally drivers. Do you think those guys are drifting just to show off? No, they're doing it because under a certain threshold of traction it's actually easier to drift than it is to grip! This is because the margin for error is so huge that they have plenty of capacity for making mistakes while sideways and they still won't crash; they can simply adjust their line to compensate.

More traction lets you compensate faster, but it makes the window smaller and easier to miss. So if you have faster reflexes, more traction will let you take advantage of that fact. I guess in that respect, you might say that as you get better at driving, the stickier tires become more usable than the slippery tires because you have the reflexes and experience to take advantage of the extra responsiveness. However, that's completely different from saying the slippery tires are harder for having less control. They do indeed have less control, in a manner of speaking, but the margin for error increases such that you are allowed more mistakes.

If the former is what you were trying to say, and not the latter, I guess we can chalk it up to miscommunication. If you're honestly saying slippery tires are harder to drift with than sticky tires, then I stand by my crack pipe comment.

Here are some videos demonstrating what I'm talking about. On your earlier comment of drifting F1 cars, there's a reason you don't see it. Like I said, as traction increases, drifting becomes harder, and F1 cars have about as much traction as is physically possible. However, what happens as you start to take away that traction?

Here's a video in the rain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7E91r_iim0
Notice he's drifting a bit there, in some places more than others.

Here's one in the snow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfOEJ-HZ1-Q
Even less traction, even more drifting.

Notice a trend here? There's a reason why as traction decreases, people tend more toward drifting. Because drifting is easiest when traction is minimal, and grip is easiest when traction is excessive. I really shouldn't have to explain this in such detail...
 
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pergatory
Just an addendum, consider this: Do you find it easier to drift on wet pavement than dry pavement? Do you find it easier to drift in dirt than on pavement? Do you find it even easier to drift in snow?

This is exactly the same as the tire debate, except now you're talking road surfaces. The slicker the surface, the easier it is to drift..
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Did you watch the first battle of Formula D last Sunday? It started to rain, and both drivers... did they make the corner perfectly?... no that doesn't seem right.... THEY BOTH SPAN OUT ON INITIATION!

D1GP earlier this year:



See how careful the driver is, and the precision he is using.

And that's just one of your arguments.

Please leave this thread, you are ignoring other arguments, showing huge ignorance, and taking metaphors as genuine facts.

Your post has been reported.​
 
GODfreyGT5
Did you watch the first battle of Formula D last Sunday? It started to rain, and both drivers... did they make the corner perfectly?... no that doesn't seem right.... THEY BOTH SPAN OUT ON INITIATION!

D1GP earlier this year:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqEubdexxtU">YouTube Link</a>

See how careful the driver is, and the precision he is using.

And that's just one of your arguments.

Please leave this thread, you are ignoring other arguments, showing huge ignorance, and taking metaphors as genuine facts.

Your post has been reported.
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That should explain what jimmy was trying to say.
Comfort tires have so little grip,drifting can be tricky. Especially in competitions, you have to make quick reactions happen, like fast initiation, quick transitions, going from lock to lock. Tell me that last one Is easy. And jimmy was right, you do countersteer less because there's so much forward momentum its very hard to get big angle and still keep speed, so you have to sacrifice big angles.
 
Wow, since I'm on phone I'm not even goin to read all that mumbo jumbo. I said simply, everyone likes different thinkgs. I use all that toe because it gives me better precision when going door to door. The one and only reason I use it. Majority of people around can tell you that when it comes to tandems I can be pretty freaking precise, maciocio and Seanwelland to name 2. On fuji at high speed, I initially used the mad toe angles and I was like glue on someone else's door all the way up and round the d1 section. Why is that? Because the toe allows me and my style to get those little steering inputs to get door to door!. You can not tell someone there doing it wrong. You tune a car to your own feel hence why I haven't given the OP any numbers. Some people like a little understeer and some people like excessive oversteer.

Also, I can weight shift very very easy and my cars always feel light and nimble if I use these sorts of numbers because the rest of the car is set up to allow it to. My OWN feel. Man, I give up.
 
PureHeavyMetal
Every thread on the drift forum devolves into an argument over drivetrain and/or tire choice. That's why I try to avoid the drift forum as much as possible.
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What about raise new contents, instead? Comming to a overtalked debate only to complain about that, does not helps at all. I´d suggest you look for any old thread with original content and try to bump it back to the top, or even think about something new to discuss.

We all know that AWD sucks, and CH is the tyre of choice. No need to discuss about that anymore. I tried sometimes to start new threads about diferent subjects, but the progress was very low. Maybe because people really like to discuss what they believe or know, but don´t like so much to investigate and share new or unexplored subjects. Who knows?
 
Pergatory, I just want to ask one question about tires and all, because it just gets weird how GT5 the B-Spec AMG challenge was raced on Comfort Softs and yet you say it's more and skillful realistic to drift Sports tire.

Did PD do the tire grading wrong? Or are we arguing for a lost cause?
 
@Pergatory

In order for this discussion to go further, I think you really need to stop taking mini shots at various people, and remove some of the negative and condescending tone from your posts. This is a reasonable issue to have a discussion over....but lets keep it friendly, without talking down to people. That way the mods won't have to come in here and close it when it turns into a flame fest.

Anyways! In regards to all of what you wrote:

I understand now what you mean by the "margin of error" for sports being less than it is for comfort. The tires gain grip much easier. The transitions from grip to slip and slip to grip are much more violent. Thus, when the car is pushed to it's limits(as it is when drifting), it is much more "snappy"; put another way, when you lose control, you really lose control...the car wants to shoot off in a different direction.

That much, I agree with you on. But here's where things start to get different...for me at least.

Although the car is much "snappier" as I described above, the only place this really effects me is during transitions from one direction to the other. Mid drift, and/or chaining consecutive corners in the same direction (even if the are of varying speeds), I find a car on sports tires to be rock solid, and very easy to drift. In conjunction with that, I find going from slow speed corners to high speed corners extremely easy on sports tires (and one of the hardest things for me to do on comfort tires)

Like I said, during direction changes, the car becomes very finicky. There are times when if feels like you almost have to fight to maintain the loss of traction. And snap-back oversteer is very common. Even tougher than normal transitions is going from one direction to the other in a fast section.

However, after spending some time on sports tires, I taught myself to finesse those transitions. After a few hours of practice, I got a good feel for how the car was going to react under those conditions, and figured out what needed to be done to prevent crashing (most of the time lol). Once I figured that part out, drifting sports tires became pretty easy for me.

Other than changing direction (especially at high speed), I find every other aspect of drifting more difficult on comfort tires. High speed to low speed, low speed to high speed, long sweeping corners, etc etc...for me, all tougher on comfort tires.

The main reason I find sports tires easier is because I don't feel like I need to worry about spinning out because of power oversteer. Unless I really mess up a weight transfer, I find it nearly impossible to spin out because I'm on the gas too hard.


Now, about all that stuff you said about grip levels....I have to completely disagree with you (again, iknowright..)

I find it much harder to drift in the rain, on snow, on gravel, or on ice, than on dry tarmac.

It is much easier to break traction on those other road surfaces...but just because it is easier to break traction, that does not mean it is easier to drift. Yes, if you are on a low grip surface, it is easier to slide the car around (e-brake, powerslide, etc)...but doing that doesn't mean you're "drifting"

In terms of following a proper line and hitting clipping points, hells ya I find it much harder to drift in the rain, or on snow, than on dry tarmac. Dry tarmac is easy as pie compared to low grip surfaces.

I'm going to steal your line, but "the margin for error" when drifting on a wet surface is much lower than that of dry tarmac. Basically, once you commit the car to a certain path of travel, there's very little you can do to alter it. If you slightly miss a breaking zone, slightly miss a transition zone, or are too far off the line, you're almost for sure going to end up off course. You have to finesse the throttle way more so you don't oversteer. You have to be much more gentle with the brakes as well.

Also, any type of racing where drifting is used (rally, touge, etc), the drifting is not used because it is easier, but because it is faster There is absolutely nothing easy about drifting under those types of conditions.

In a rally stage, any given corner that is "drifted" is much easier to take using grip. It is also much slower using grip. When a rally car is drifting a corner, it is doing so at speeds that cause the tires to exceed their levels of grip. To maintain control at those speeds, the drivers use drift techniques. They do this to maintain the higher speed, not because it is "easier".
 
Agressive: Tape down the Gas button and drift like you never did.
Faster: Tale corners smooth and use the handbrake for 1 sec
 

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