How Do You Appeal to an International or Foreign Audience?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JohnBM01
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My measure is that the Mazda 6 provides less stuff that midsize sedan buyers do at a higher relative price than Nissan, Toyota, and Honda. 6 isn't far off the top of the pack, but I'd get four or five midsizers before I got a 6.
 
I wonder if the Ford Fusion will be a better deal than the 6? Obviously Ford thought they saw something in the platform, since they decided to bring it to other brands.
 
Sorry to be intrusive and off-topic, but I hope that's a typo in the title. When people pronounce it "foregin" I always cringle, then laugh...
 
skip0110
I wonder if the Ford Fusion will be a better deal than the 6? Obviously Ford thought they saw something in the platform, since they decided to bring it to other brands.
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I just hope the Fusion has more than 200 horsepower, and at a more reasonable price than the Buick Regal GS, Buick Lacrosse CXS, or Chevrolet Impala SS, all of which have the power to compete but are priced out of midsize sedan territory.
 
M5Power
I just hope the Fusion has more than 200 horsepower, and at a more reasonable price than the Buick Regal GS, Buick Lacrosse CXS, or Chevrolet Impala SS, all of which have the power to compete but are priced out of midsize sedan territory.
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Seeing as the Five Hundred only has 203 hp, I don't think Ford will want it's little brother outpowering it.
 
So what's Ford going to do? NOT give it a six-cylinder engine?


Look for the Fusion to have in the neighbourhood of 220hp, and Five Hundred to get a new 3.5L version of the Duratec V6 with at least 240hp.
 
That's the American way--make sure the car is thoroughly mucked up/incomplete in some way when you introduce it, then make it steadily better once everyone hates it.
 
Unfortunately it's so true. So many American cars debut only to have major, major changes or other models added soon after debut. The Pontiac G6 is a huge example - still in the works are two other engines and two other bodystyles. It's crazy. And the SSR and GTO, owners of which should get a sizable refund for buying in the products' original years (only to have the engine size be upped notably for 2005).
 
Introducing the G6 when the model line was 2/3rds missing was a terrible mistake. Now the consumer has already classified the name, the initial buzz is gone, and it is doomed to poor sales for eternity.

The "free car" stunt was also done when Pontiac dealers barely had cars on the lots to satisfy demand, even if there was some.
 
Man, why does someone always have to nitpick my topics? If I wanted a personal troubleshooter, I'll hire one, but until then, I appreciate your kindness, okay? I made an honest mistake. Crap. I didn't know that typos and honest mistakes make me a bad person...

Who'd want a "free G6" anyways? I'll admit the styling is little more bold, but I don't see a Pontiac I'd want if I had the money. In fact, if I wanted one, bring back the F-Body Trans-Am, then maybe I'll pay. I'm going to agree with the claim on engines. I think if you're going to appeal to Europe, diesels are surely great options since diesel is pretty popular and pretty reliable in Europe. The only markets I don't know too well is Australia, Japan (sadly), and China. I know since 7 of the 10 most populated cities in the world are in China, some less-polluting engine options would be worthwhile to helping out the air in China. If Speed Channel shows their "World's Greatest Auto Show" coverage of Beijing, then it would be nice to see what it's like in China now compared to last year. The engineering overall and with the engine have to be wonderful for it to be great for rolling around the respective nation.
 
skip0110
Introducing the G6 when the model line was 2/3rds missing was a terrible mistake. Now the consumer has already classified the name, the initial buzz is gone, and it is doomed to poor sales for eternity.
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The G6 certainly isn't unpopular in Toronto. These things are becoming as common as Civics and Corollas... :yuck:
 
Ev0
The G6 certainly isn't unpopular in Toronto. These things are becoming as common as Civics and Corollas... :yuck:
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You're right---my "poor sales" comment was off the mark. The G6 will sell well, as did the Grand Am before it. But this is because of huge dealer rebates, not because of any inherent (or even perceived) goodness in the car. I think GM already has rebates on the G6--terrible, considering that it's a brand new design.
 
Nah, it's not because of rebates. Canadians seem to love Pontiac for some reason. I mean the Sunfire is the 4th best selling vehicle up here (I'm not joking).
 
JohnBM01
Man, why does someone always have to nitpick my topics? If I wanted a personal troubleshooter, I'll hire one, but until then, I appreciate your kindness, okay? I made an honest mistake. Crap. I didn't know that typos and honest mistakes make me a bad person...
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Whoa. I didn't know if it was an honest mistake, that is why I asked.
I wasn't being unkind and I certainly didn't say you were an bad person.
 
Agreed. I hate it when friends of mine, who are somewhat interested in cars, ask "which would you rather have?" Unfortunately the answer's always the same - whichever is worth more.

I'm too practical. :(
 
M5Power
I'm fairly sure GM has no manufacturer rebates on the G6 right now.
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* Estimate Payment
* Locate Vehicle
* More about Bonneville

2005 G6®
G6

$21,300 Starting MSRP** before incentives
$21,300 as shown** before incentive


* $1,500 Cash Allowances***
OR
* 0.0% APR for 36 months†
plus $1,000 Bonus Cash
* 1.9% APR for 48 months†
plus $1,000 Bonus Cash
* 2.9% APR for 60 months†
plus $1,000 Bonus Cash
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from pontiacs own site. i clicked on the west coast which is where i am.


GM has very few vehicles that have the pull to not have rebates right away. the corvette is one. hopefully the solstice is another. most of the cadillacs. the hummers right after introduction. etc.

the mainstream stuff doesnt go without incentives.

and i also answer "whichever is more expensive" when my non car friends ask which car id rather have.
they dont comprehend that i like 60s stuff, european stuff, eclectic stuff, more than the asinine souless stuff for sale today.
 
I'm 100% sure the Solstice has no rebates; I believe there is already a waiting list for Solstices (I read it in the paper on the weekend; I'd double check the article to make sure if it had not been taken out in the recycling already).
 
"Bonus Cash" is different from "rebate", right? My understanding is that "Bonus Cash" is when they match your down payment, in the G6's case up to $1000. And "cash allowances" apply to ex-Oldsmobile owners, military service personnel or family members, and college graduates. Meanwhile my understanding of a rebate is something to be redeemed with the manufacturer assuming you purchase your vehicle and apply for your rebate in the selected time period.

That would mean that MSN Autos and Automotive.com agree on that there is a rebate but disagree on the amount. Both disagree with ConsumerGuide, and Pontiac is quiet on the matter (which is why I stood by my statement).
 
M5Power
"Bonus Cash" is different from "rebate", right? My understanding is that "Bonus Cash" is when they match your down payment, in the G6's case up to $1000. And "cash allowances" apply to ex-Oldsmobile owners, military service personnel or family members, and college graduates. Meanwhile my understanding of a rebate is something to be redeemed with the manufacturer assuming you purchase your vehicle and apply for your rebate in the selected time period.
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Well, I've never been involved in a car purchase that involved any type of leasing/loans (always just writing a check on the agreed price + destination + tax). So that is most likely how it works. I just looked for the "rebates" heading.

Anyways, heading slightly more on topic, is the G6 going to be sold in any non-North American markets?
 
M5Power
"Bonus Cash" is different from "rebate", right? My understanding is that "Bonus Cash" is when they match your down payment, in the G6's case up to $1000. And "cash allowances" apply to ex-Oldsmobile owners, military service personnel or family members, and college graduates. Meanwhile my understanding of a rebate is something to be redeemed with the manufacturer assuming you purchase your vehicle and apply for your rebate in the selected time period.

That would mean that MSN Autos and Automotive.com agree on that there is a rebate but disagree on the amount. Both disagree with ConsumerGuide, and Pontiac is quiet on the matter (which is why I stood by my statement).
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to me, any money that they give you as an incentive to buy their car, whether its a rebate, 0% loan, "bonus cash," free spinner hubcaps, anything they throw in to sweeten the deal, is a rebate. this excludes taking in your trade which is par for the course. or filling the tank with gas, which i consider to be good business practise.


a rose by any other name...........
 
neanderthal
a rose by any other name...........
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Regardless, I think we both agree on the point - Pontiac's throwing money at a car that just debuted because no-one's buying it. Is Buick doing the same thing with the Lacrosse?
 
I don't know about how GM divisions outside of America would feel about getting the Pontiac G6. I'm not a fan of recent Pontiacs, so I don't think Vauxhall, Opel, or even Holden would feel about having the Pontiac G6 in any place that isn't the United States of America or even Canada. Not trying to be funny, but I wouldn't want to imagine this machine raced in Brazilian Stock Car if it was sold in Brazil.

Can America build a world-class car? According to an old Cadillac commercial for the Cadillac STS, it broke through the glass which said "America can't build a world-class car." While not a big fan of Cadillac, I think the Caddys might have a nice chance for international success outside of America. I'd really like the Chryslers to have a nice worldwide prescence. That Chrysler 300 would be the best seller. It's practical (even with the new Hemi motor), seats many, looks expensive, but doesn't cost expensive. I think Chrysler's going to return to the Australian V8 Supercar series, but some of our cars can do pretty well elsewhere in the world.

It would be interesting to see how European minis and Japanese Kei cars would do in America. I still like the Mini Cooper and all, but I would like to see how other small cars not sold in America would do. I'm sure there are some fun-to-drive mini cars that are every bit as versatile as a Freestyle or Grand Caravan. There's plenty of potential for other car companies to get a taste of some American pie, while most of us American companies would like a taste of international flavor. Maybe it sounds too perfect, but it would be a cool idea.
 
M5Power
Regardless, I think we both agree on the point - Pontiac's throwing money at a car that just debuted because no-one's buying it. Is Buick doing the same thing with the Lacrosse?
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buick is doing $1500 or financing.

as for the question; can america build a world class car?

the answer is of course. would it compete internationally against established brands? i think only the more expensive models would. cadillac for instance has well engineered cars with nice (world class) inteiors, and thier bold styling.


i think the G6 could, given a better selection of engines (say a range of fours varying in size from 1.6 to 2.2 liters including some turbodiesels) and a "high option" V6 of about 3 liters. it had better get excellent fuel economy compared to cars in its class, have a suitable interior (no cheesy army- blanket- dull grey headliners, hard shiny plastic interior etc) and no rattles, squeeks and other maladies when going over bumpy roads or after a years milage.

that car would compete, i think.

a smaller car would really require understanding other car cultures, immersing themselves in them, and developing something radical yet practical. something i dont think the US car industry can do. crippling labor costs and the lack of a serious market domestically would severely handicap any effort to do so.

come to think of it, i cant think of any american small car that was a revolution (even cultural) ala first gen golf, renault 5 etc aside from the focus whose european influence leads me to think thats what made it a great car.
 
JohnBM01
I don't know about how GM divisions outside of America would feel about getting the Pontiac G6. I'm not a fan of recent Pontiacs, so I don't think Vauxhall, Opel, or even Holden would feel about having the Pontiac G6 in any place that isn't the United States of America or even Canada. Not trying to be funny, but I wouldn't want to imagine this machine raced in Brazilian Stock Car if it was sold in Brazil.

Can America build a world-class car? According to an old Cadillac commercial for the Cadillac STS, it broke through the glass which said "America can't build a world-class car." While not a big fan of Cadillac, I think the Caddys might have a nice chance for international success outside of America. I'd really like the Chryslers to have a nice worldwide prescence. That Chrysler 300 would be the best seller. It's practical (even with the new Hemi motor), seats many, looks expensive, but doesn't cost expensive. I think Chrysler's going to return to the Australian V8 Supercar series, but some of our cars can do pretty well elsewhere in the world.
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I wouldn't think that GM would attempt to sell the Pontiac G6 in any market outside of America. Its based on the Epsilon platform & ECOTEC engines which it shares with the Opel/Vauxhaul Vectra & Omega as well as the SAAB 93 & 95 i just don't feel there would be any demand for such a similar product. The Pontiac badge, in europe at least, means nothing to the majority of people, and for those who know Pontiac it probably cunjours up images of either Knight Rider or Smokey and the Bandit - neither would encourage someone to fork out for a medium sized family car.

Cadillac and Chryslers larger models on the other hand have started to reicive some alright reviews in european car mags, but their styling is too flash (too much chrome and heavy-handed branding) and the quality of their interiors compared to european competiters means that they still will only sell in tiny amounts.

Europe has had (mainly Austrian built) Neons, PT Cruisers, Voyagers, Cherokees and Grand Cherokees for a while now, and their keen pricing means they sell pretty well. Once you go further up-market price and spec levels very much play second-fiddle to quaity and image, Europeans will always prefere an Audi, Saab, Merc, Volvo or BMW than the equiverlent Caddy or Chrysler.
 
It would be interesting to see how European minis and Japanese Kei cars would do in America. I still like the Mini Cooper and all, but I would like to see how other small cars not sold in America would do.
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where have you been hiding, JohnMB? micros FLOP in the states.
Dihatsu took a stab at it in the late 80's for example FLOP
someone tried to import a eastern European version of Fiat's FLOP
GM's Geo label...FLOP
European(Non German) manufacturers gave up on the US in the 80's...and even the Japanese got smart. the "k" cars don't come here...because no american will eiother fold himself up or risk getting turned into a red smear on the pavement in Micros...americans are too scared of teeny-weenies because they're afraid they'd get run over by a HUNDAI!! (and even Hundai's pretty much dumped the small size cars, too)

nutshell: american's can't stand SMALL...
 

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