How does the GT community really feel about catch the rabbit races?

  • Thread starter Conquerer
  • 143 comments
  • 9,940 views

Are you satisfied with the current offline race format of starting 25+ seconds behind the leader?

  • Yes, I think it's fine

    Votes: 20 9.9%
  • No, I would prefer closer starts and/or more competitive AI

    Votes: 182 90.1%

  • Total voters
    202
1,443
Conquerer13
Since GT5 Prologue, every GT career mode pits you in the middle/rear of the field 25-40 seconds behind the leader, resembling nothing even close to a racing grid, and gives you only a few laps to hunt down the leader before the race is over. Now, accomplishing this most of the time is no sweat at all if you have at least a fair amount of skill, but the quality of racing when you're flying past most cars is really, really poor.

It's been like this in GT5P, GT5, GT6 and now GT Sport, and personally I'm incredibly sick of it. There's almost no passion or competition injected into the AI and they make themselves sitting ducks the strong majority of the time, and even if rubber banding comes into play and the lead driver(s) pick up the pace when you get close to or past them, why do you have to start so far behind and rush your way through the pack? It's almost like one of those one lap magic special events in GT5P, except the lead car is even further ahead and it's spread out over multiple laps. Is it just pure lazy design or are they struggling to make their AI competitive? Really feels like the former as many times I'll pass the lead car and it'll stick with me within 1-2 seconds for the rest of the race, despite catching it at a rate of 5+ seconds per lap, so clearly the AI are capable of higher performance, even if the game is artificially giving them more power and grip than you.

It's time for Gran Turismo to add difficulty levels much like Forza Motorsport does and cater the AI to what the player wants, and starting in a proper grid, standing or rolling, is absolutely essential. For the record, I do think Forza starts cars way too close, especially on rolling starts, which really promotes first corner incidents, but the distance cars start apart in GT5P to GTS is absolutely ridiculous. If it means artificially making AI cars better to compensate for PD's lack of AI development, so be it, but this current format needs to go.

I'm sure lots of people have their opinions on this and I have seen some posts about it here and there, but I'm honestly surprised this doesn't receive more criticism and attention. For me it is literally the worst aspect of Gran Turismo games since GT5P and is part of the reason why the franchise has been in a decline of critical acclaim since then. They moved up from 6 cars to 16-22 or whatever, but at what cost? What's the point of having so many cars if it's no longer a proper competition? For this to have gone on in 4 GT games now and for 10 years is completely baffling. I think the community needs to speak up and let it be known that we want real competitive offline racing and, further, to not deal with mixed grids with cars that have no business being in the race (usually in the lower half of the grid) amongst much more powerful cars. I'm still a huge GT fan but the AI and race structure is just embarrassingly bad now. It absolutely needs to change. But I'm curious what most other people here think as well; do speak up.
 
It's the one thing I would say I truly hate about these games. To add to the OP: When you pass the lead rabbit, many times he gets magic boost speed and most often catches you at the next braking point and bashes you off the track. Blue Moon, Alsace, either of the Tokyo outer loops.....It seems worse the difficulty level goes. Since last weeks change to the daily races, I've spent most of my time in the custom arcade races. The AI doesn't act especially good, but they are better than in the campaign mode.

I really miss the AI in GT4. It felt like you had actually accomplished something when you won one of the higher ranked races. I also remember catching up to the lead AI and our engines singing in stereo. Wow. I still think GT4 was the best.
 
Since last weeks change to the daily races, I've spent most of my time in the custom arcade races. The AI doesn't act especially good, but they are better than in the campaign mode.
True, and I forgot to mention that. I've had quite a bit of fun in the few custom races i've tried since the grid starts much closer together and the AI is quite a bit better as well. Really don't get why they keep the campaign AI so half-assed when it's hard proof that they can be better in the custom races.
 
One you can setup a custom race.
Two what is more fun in ANY game video or otherwise-playing a person or a computer?
Come on here.
I wouldn’t have posted but for the comment the games company doesn’t know Motorsport!!!!
Wow.
All I know is basically anytime I want I can race against live competition. I hope GT Sport is here to stay!
Talk about first world problems guys...
It’s like sex is it better with a partner or two?
 
One you can setup a custom race.
Two what is more fun in ANY game video or otherwise-playing a person or a computer?
Come on here.
I wouldn’t have posted but for the comment the games company doesn’t know Motorsport!!!!
Wow.
All I know is basically anytime I want I can race against live competition. I hope GT Sport is here to stay!
Talk about first world problems guys...
It’s like sex is it better with a partner or two?
Your point isn't really relevant though, is it? You can race online with real people which is much better (and frankly more fun) than offline AI, but does that mean the offline mode doesn't matter? GT5 and 6 depended almost entirely on offline campaign and still got it all wrong. GT sport has a majority focus of online racing and perhaps the offline racing was indeed more of an afterthought, but it's not a new format that was necessarily lazily put together and thus fell short of previous games, but rather it's the exact same thing they've done since the PS3 era and they haven't learned anything. Whether PD/Kaz know motorsport, they clearly fail to represent it well when it comes to offline competition and race format. That's simply a fact.

Custom races are nice and better as I said in a later post, but they even further illustrate how bad the campaign is. Why is there such a disparity for no reason? Don't make excuses for the developer. As for online vs offline, I love Sport mode as well and spend a huge majority of my time with it (easily 95%+), but I've really been turned off from the campaign lately cause it's the same boring nonsense from the last 10 years. It shouldn't not matter because you can play online -- why can't we have both? The entire game should receive equal treatment to make it properly balanced and fun for all players. And right now, the driving physics are all good and well, but the campaign racing itself is hardly any fun at all.
 
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it's the exact same thing they've done since the PS3 era and they haven't learned anything. Whether PD/Kaz know motorsport, they clearly fail to represent it well when it comes to offline competition and race format. That's simply a fact.

The fans of GT deserve more. Be a pioneer PD, that's why you have loyal fans.
 
If it is hardly fun at all, then don't play it?
Terrible mentality. If you don't enjoy a half-assed mode that was once the all and everything of Gran Turismo, don't play it? How about they just make it better so it's fun to play for everyone and makes the entire game better? Nobody should settle for mediocrity. If it doesn't bother you then you don't need to voice your opinion about it, but a lot of people don't like it. And for the record, I don't play it most of the time and instead play Sport mode (95 vs 5%), but I still want good offline fun.

And again, I'm a huge advocate of Sport mode. I think it's a fantastic innovation for console racing and Gran Turismo and they hit it out of the park, but I'd also like campaign mode to progress and not keep the same old stale, boring and out of date structure it's had for 10 years.
 
I'm 43 and have played every Gran Turismo and other games all my life.

I think my mentality is fine. If you don't like that part of the game, don't play it. Seems simple.
 
Voted "fine" because, I use Grid Starts. The AI are pretty speedy that way.

Starting 25 seconds behind, isn't a hindrance to my immersion. However, heck yeah I want competitive AI. If anyone from PD are reading this, turn the AI up to eleven, were not scared. ;)
 
I'm 43 and have played every Gran Turismo and other games all my life.

I think my mentality is fine. If you don't like that part of the game, don't play it. Seems simple.
Again, that doesn't solve the problem but simply skirts around it for the sake of blindly defending the series. As I've stated I'm still a huge fan and yes, I've also played every single GT title extensively. And I also said I do barely play that part of the game now so your advice doesn't apply. Doesn't matter if/how much I play it; I want to play a properly designed career mode with competitive offline racing. Not playing it doesn't solve that. And I'm not simply bashing it and saying it's bad, but rather explaining why and proposing how to (obviously) make it better.

I enjoyed GT5 and GT6 and put over 1000 hours into them (90-95% offline), so no, I don't think "don't play it" is a valid response since I would then be skipping those games entirely when I do enjoy them despite their significant flaws. Instead, make it better so longtime fans like me and many others (including yourself) can enjoy a proper career mode, and I highly doubt you'd have any objection to that beyond disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

Voted "fine" because, I use Grid Starts. The AI are pretty speedy that way.

Starting 25 seconds behind, isn't a hindrance to my immersion. However, heck yeah I want competitive AI. If anyone from PD are reading this, turn the AI up to eleven, were not scared. ;)
Sure but you can't do grid starts in GT League but only in custom races which are not quite what I'm talking about. Fair enough for your other opinion but personally I think the leader starting so far ahead of every single race is ridiculous and not fair at all regardless of skill level (I also don't have a problem catching them but it's not rewarding). Maybe in a few special races it'd be fine, but not all of them. It gets incredibly repetitive.
 
As I see it, leagues is a canned scenario. Its not a pure race per se.

I would love the ability to change parameters but that hasnt been the case for 10yrs.

I'm not going to get worked up over something that isnt going to change.

For people who want it to be something its not, good luck.

I see 'leagues' as just basically grabbing the trophy given their restrictive parameters.
 
I'm 43 and have played every Gran Turismo and other games all my life.

I think my mentality is fine. If you don't like that part of the game, don't play it. Seems simple.

If you like it then fine...but others want more...and they can see potential to grow away from the old, ahh never mind...
 
As I see it, leagues is a canned scenario. Its not a pure race per se.

I would love the ability to change parameters but that hasnt been the case for 10yrs.

I'm not going to get worked up over something that isnt going to change.

For people who want it to be something its not, good luck.

I see 'leagues' as just basically grabbing the trophy given their restrictive parameters.
Well yeah but the problem is GT League doesn't do anything different that GT5P, GT5 or GT6 didn't do. If those games had actual good AI and racing then I might even give GT League a free pass in Sport because it's clearly an afterthought thrown in to appease the larger crowd while the focus still remains on Sport mode. The problem is much bigger than this one game, but rather the entire mentality that PD has had since the franchise's jump to the HD era. Not one game but literally 4 in a row... there is a massive problem here.

Going by Metacritic score alone, GT1-4 had scores of 89-96%, while GT5, 6 and Sport fell to 84, 81 and 75 respectively. Clearly the players and reviewers are finding problems with the more recent releases and while it's not just the quality of racing, it's certainly a big part of it as far as I'm concerned. PD has neglected to keep the series up to modern standards of what's expected from a racing game, simply put. Sport mode is great, but offline campaign mode... the bleeding has been going on for a long time and there is no sign whatsoever of it stopping. That worries me.
 
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All of us want more, just that PD wont listen so we wont get it.

The end.
Just shows what a dinosaur of a developer they now are. It's just sad after the glory days of GT1-4. I still enjoy the games and particularly the physics which have certainly improved, but so many other things have remained stagnant for so long while other racing games are getting better. After so many games in a row with the same issues, I've also lost hope tbqh, but it's still hard to settle for mediocrity.
 
You have to wonder why they couldn't implement it for GT Sport.. People said that on PS3 (with the cell architecture) the hardware wouldn't be strong enough to hold a steady framerate during grid starts. Which, I mean, fair enough. The PS3 GT games were suffering from framerate drops already, adding this might make it too much.

But with GT Sport they literally have no excuse
 
Again, that doesn't solve the problem but simply skirts around it for the sake of blindly defending the series. As I've stated I'm still a huge fan and yes, I've also played every single GT title extensively. And I also said I do barely play that part of the game now so your advice doesn't apply. Doesn't matter if/how much I play it; I want to play a properly designed career mode with competitive offline racing. Not playing it doesn't solve that. And I'm not simply bashing it and saying it's bad, but rather explaining why and proposing how to (obviously) make it better.

I enjoyed GT5 and GT6 and put over 1000 hours into them (90-95% offline), so no, I don't think "don't play it" is a valid response since I would then be skipping those games entirely when I do enjoy them despite their significant flaws. Instead, make it better so longtime fans like me and many others (including yourself) can enjoy a proper career mode, and I highly doubt you'd have any objection to that beyond disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.


Sure but you can't do grid starts in GT League but only in custom races which are not quite what I'm talking about. Fair enough for your other opinion but personally I think the leader starting so far ahead of every single race is ridiculous and not fair at all regardless of skill level (I also don't have a problem catching them but it's not rewarding). Maybe in a few special races it'd be fine, but not all of them. It gets incredibly repetitive.
It wasn't lways this way in the GT series. It becomes "Why". From GT5P, the starts of races are defaulted this way.

Why do we have that starting distance between cars?
 
Completely agree with you, the AI in GTSPORT is even worse than GT6's

It's like PD just coded a line and the AI just follows that line slowly
 
I'm not Elmer Fudd, I don't wanna "catch da wabbit"!


:lol:
 
I'm 43 and have played every Gran Turismo and other games all my life.

I think my mentality is fine. If you don't like that part of the game, don't play it. Seems simple.

I'm 31 and have played every Gran Turismo and other games all my life.

I think my mentality is fine. This aspect of GT has always been very weak, and it is a constant source of frustration. It's actually worse now than it has ever been due to this games focus on racing and sportsman ship with Sport mode. As it stands the 'offline' portion of the game acts as the only real tutorial in how to play the game and get players accustomed to the many different types of cars and tracks in the game. The problem with the AI being so bad is that they only reinforce bad practices and poor behaviour from the player. Take the F1 games for example, they show AI with clean defending (one move) and won't just drive into you. To my mind they need to work very hard on fixing this as it would/could help alleviate problems in Sport mode and help to curb peoples approach to the game in general. Seems simple.
 
GT League races, not a fan of the format, but with the slow AI they had to do something to try and challenge players.

I recently did the Bathurst Gr.3 Endurance race and following an AI over the top of the mountain is verging on a painful experience because they are so far off my pace (which is not that fast) It might be fun to take them on with a Gr.4 car but I think that would still have more corner speed.

Simply put to get rid of the chase the rabbit format, AI needs to be vastly improved so they can actually offer a racing experience to the player, rather than just being a mobile chicanes.

Note: custom races it is possible to close up the start, and the Professional AI May be a little faster, but still they do not offer engaging racing.
 
Note: custom races it is possible to close up the start, and the Professional AI May be a little faster, but still they do not offer engaging racing.


It's also possible to turn off Slow Car Boost in Custom Races, but not in Career Mode. The AI are slow enough as it is, so why on earth they think it's a good idea to hobble them further in Career Mode is beyond me. All options in all modes please PD! Mind you, I still find myself having to nerf my car as regards tyres, weight, & BHP even in Custom Races...
 
Note: custom races it is possible to close up the start, and the Professional AI May be a little faster, but still they do not offer engaging racing.
Indeed, in fact if you do anything like that (start closer to the leaders or rest of the cars) you just end up leading from the get go. And with the rubber banding taken off you just end up doing time trails, without, actually having your fastest laps saved...
 
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