How good is any Time Trial Rank?

[Conza]

I've often wondered if I'm at the edge of acceptable, or completely useless, or actually not half bad, when it comes to my time trial score.

*looks up a couple of past scores*

The last TT for the 550pp I came quite low (I think), 65424 using a 458 a G27 all assists off save ABS, I did a 2:01.617 was +11.007 behind the best time. This seems pretty low.

The other was the 400pp, and I thought I did alright, 12459 using an RX-8 Type S, same set up as before, 1:49.613 was still +9.663 off the fastest. To me I'm unsure, I'm ahead by ~50,000 people, but still many seconds behind the best score.

Does completing a gold on the time trial make you at all good? Or 'How good does that make you if you just make it with maxed pp?'.

Are there certain percentages in number rank that you think are an indicator of personal skill? I couldn't find the participant totals for the previous TTs maybe others will know. Feel free to say 'nah, you're terrible/average' or if you're kind 'about average skill level' 5-6/10.

Also, I want to avoid anything like 'well you only did so well because you had ABS' or 'but the 2J' anything to do with that please avoid, I'm trying to focus on how good the end result is, not so much on how people could've glitched it or made it easier on themselves.

 

[gtnoobie]

Look up the time trial results on mygranturismo.net
You can see even the past results and compare the total number of players vs your own rank.
Once you achieve gold timing, it should place you in the top half of the ranking which spells 'average'. After that, i am not motivated to push further for faster timing. The main reason for me is that due to limited skills, I don't think I am capable of another 4-5s faster. Secondly, limited time available. Nowadays, I give myself 5-10 laps in each time trial to improve unless I have problem getting gold. I see a bunch of timing barely meeting gold so many seems to feels the same. One of the time trial with gsx at cape ring got me riled up as I could not get gold initially. Copied a tune from gtp and do at least 15 laps. Rank below 2000 for the first time.

 

[slashgnr08]

wow i just checked my results, im shocked in some events how high i actually ranked, but its so close timewise, these just made my night

 

[Conza]

Yeah I know, I just checked my result for the 400pp event there, I'm in the top 15% in the world (only top 62% for the 550pp, :/ meh), Can hardly believe it, atleast I know my time hasn't been wasted playing this game so much, I'm right up there.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

As long as you are happy with your time, there's no need to worry if you are just average or great, there are always people slower than you of course, you can always aim higher, like taking off the crutches aka aids - ABS included. The time would not be a definitive indicator, it's how you did the lap whilst being on the limit 100%.

 

[Jaywalker]

I think it's relative, since it depends on what car you're using. Once you've achieved gold with your car/cars of choice, go & try again with the car the top guys are using. (Use one of the posted tunes.) This should give a better indication of where you fit in.

Personally, I aim for top 1000 or 500, depending on mood & event. My best so far was in the 160's I think & that took a LOT of effort...

 

[Stotty]

Given all the complex variables (in particular, weight reduction, balast and it's positioning, and engine power limiting) and the effect they have on your ability to be competitive, I don't think the TT rankings trully reflect driving ability... you can be a really fast driver, but without the breakthrough tune you'll not be competitive as far as the top 50 or so are concerned.

The important thing is you're happy with your performance and you enjoy it.

 

[Killermiller24]

I also depends which car you are using..with the right car and tune it's not a problem to make a good time

my best is suzuka with the 2J, i think 85th

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I think easiest way to compare time trial rank is using the same car that is topping leaderboards and also a decent setup. When comparing with cars slower, it is hard to judge how well you are doing compared to maybe others. Actually in a way, you know from experience of other TTs how well you might be doing but it is more fun trying to compete for top places.

I measure how well I do by the feeling the lap gives me and the gap to first normally. I prefer TTs with fixed cars though, as then you know for sure, your own driving is the main thing letting yourself down. The seasonal TTs, usually I can get in somewhere in top 250 in first complete lap, sometimes maybe top 100 and after a few laps somewhere in top 50 or top 20 or maybe top 10.

However best satisfaction of doing a good lap is when, I think I got the pace to compete for top spot, one day hopefully I get to the level of the top drivers in the game, that some are able to go top after only a few laps if they tried on some of the current TTs. I wonder if good TT rank is probably easier now due to probably less people trying harder now on these TTs due to the game being older. Maybe that makes it easier for me to be competitive or it could be I just got a bit faster. All in all I think best way to judge how good any time trial rank is by taking in context, if you are using the car used by the fastest person and using a good setup as well as gap to first.

 

[PR1VATEJ0KER]

I've often wondered if I'm at the edge of acceptable, or completely useless, or actually not half bad, when it comes to my time trial score.

The only way to compare yourself is to use the same car as the leaders.
Then I would say a good lap is anything within 103% of the best time.

So, if the best time is 1:40.0
I would say a 1:43.0 is a fantastic lap!

That would place in the top 500 usually.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Given all the complex variables (in particular, weight reduction, balast and it's positioning, and engine power limiting) and the effect they have on your ability to be competitive, I don't think the TT rankings trully reflect driving ability... you can be a really fast driver, but without the breakthrough tune you'll not be competitive as far as the top 50 or so are concerned.

The important thing is you're happy with your performance and you enjoy it.

This, quite often I use a car to challenge myself to get Gold, sometimes I don't even manage it.

I got within a few tenths of gold on a 750pp Spa TT in a stock Ford GT MkIV (probably could have got gold if I maxed the DF ) and that is the time I'm most proud of at the moment.

Just because you don't place high doesn't mean you can't given the right car/tune/track time. 👍

 

[Stotty]

The only way to compare yourself is to use the same car as the leaders.
Then I would say a good lap is anything within 103% of the best time.

So, if the best time is 1:40.0
I would say a 1:43.0 is a fantastic lap!

That would place in the top 500 usually.

Have to agree with this 👍

There are always going to be a few really, really quick drivers who are also great tuners out there (the 'Aliens'), and measuring your ability against them is probably going to make you feel like you're not that fast yourself.

Personally, I preferred the GT5P format of on-line TT's with no tuning... and I also much preferred the physics engine in GT5P too.

 

[sephia412]

The only way to compare yourself is to use the same car as the leaders.
Then I would say a good lap is anything within 103% of the best time.

So, if the best time is 1:40.0
I would say a 1:43.0 is a fantastic lap!

That would place in the top 500 usually.

Sorry, but how do you think can be improved if I stop using the automatic transmission and starting use the manual transmission.

I am currently almost 1 second slower per minute than the leaders.


Excuse for my bad English.

 

[eran0004]

Here is a graph of the results from the time trial no45 #1 (the 550 pp Italian non-racecars @ Monza). All gathered by hand from myGranTurismo.net (God I wish there was a button to just download the entire data in a single file. After all, there were 107 015 entries in this particular event).

The vertical axis is the time in seconds behind leader (sorry, but it wasn't possible to get the time on the horizontal axis, Excel thought there were too many entries to be able to put time as anything else than vertical), while the horizontal axis is the percentage of players. So for instance, roughly 40% of everyone were 10 seconds or less behind the leader.

The break at 72,5%/11 seconds is most likely the limit for getting gold time. I couldn't find the actual limit somewhere, but looking at the graph it's kinda obvious. The time of the break was 2:02.000 so it's a nice and even number.

Fun fact: 13 people got 2:00.000. More than 20 people got 2:01.999.

Now, to the question: Being top 15% or top 40% or whatever the criteria is for having set a good time doesn't mean much until you take a look on the context. In this graph it's obvious that most people (up to 50% of all gamers?) stop trying once they reached gold time. So let's assume that out of the top 72,5% who achieved gold time, 35% kept trying to improve after reaching gold. Now, what you think is a good time is up to you to define, if you want to be top 50% of those who kept trying to get a good time after achieving goal, that would give you a position of about 17,5% in this particular event. But even then, top 12,5% is only 0,5 seconds away, there's room for much improvment. 0,5 seconds is basically the time you gain by nailing one corner. Another 0,5 seconds (two nailed corners) brings you down to top 10% of all players. A third perfect corner brings you another 2,5% closer to the leader. At that point though you need to shave off nearly one second to get down to top 5% (which is roughly 5000th position in this case) and one more second to reach top 2,5%. If you're lucky enough to reach top 2,5% of all players, then there is the real test. In order to beat the remaining 2,5% you need to improve by more than 5 seconds. That's equal to ten nailed corners (given the assumptions we made earlier)... Good luck.

Taking a closer look at the top 2,5% of the results:

This is what the so called "aliens" looks like...

 

[PR1VATEJ0KER]

Personally, I preferred the GT5P format of on-line TT's with no tuning...

I'd love more non-tuning events :'(
I was pretty pi$$ed when I bought gt5 and there were no leaderboards similiar to GT5P

Sorry, but how do you think can be improved if I stop using the automatic transmission and starting use the manual transmission.

I am currently almost 1 second slower per minute than the leaders.

1 second per minute slower is quite good.

Manual gears will definately give you more control and save time in some situations.

Taking a closer look at the top 2,5% of the results:

Epic Post

My estimate of being within 103% on that time trial would leave you 3.318s behind the leader and just within the top 0.5% of all entries.

 

[Conza]

Here is a graph of the results from the time trial no45 #1 (the 550 pp Italian non-racecars @ Monza). All gathered by hand from myGranTurismo.net (God I wish there was a button to just download the entire data in a single file. After all, there were 107 015 entries in this particular event).

Mega brilliant post there man, thanks! How long did it take you to get all of that 107015 entries into the log? Bit of an excel nut myself, wouldn't mind knowing how you did it either.

I'll do some rounding, but basically 72.5% means 77585 made gold, and I was ranked 65424 so I'm only in the top 85% of people that passed. Wish I used a tuned Gallardo to really see, but not bad given it was in a powered up untuned 458.

So really, to be 'average' there's two indicators (basing this time trial's results as rules).

Of 107015 participants, the guy who ranked '53506' was 10.5 seconds off the leader, so that's average among everyone, but of those that actually passed the guy ranked '38792', or what looks like 10 seconds off the leader, is average. Which is only one 'nailed corner' as you put it, to make the difference between gold or not for this event.

But continuing on those rules, 36.25% being twice as good with just over a second in it, 18.125% is roughly another second, then basically once you're over the top 9-10% it gets to extreme margins.

I don't care much for the current TTs, but it's interesting with this information to see how the ranks really work, but like others have said, if you really want to rank high, use the car/s the top guys are using with the best tune.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Another way to use the mygranturismo.net ranking system is to list the rank based on what car and aids do you use then see how your time stack up against similar car/aids used.

An example of my time at TT 45 - Italian car at Monza, I was using Ferrari 458 Italia, with 1:56.505 - no ABS or other aids and stick, I tuned the car myself as well.

Ranking for Ferrari 458 TT45, no ABS world rank.

I am 2nd on this particular rank view, out of 75 driver who has no ABS with 458, the 1st is using a wheel. The total drivers who uses 458 Italia regardless of aids is 5729 worldwide - not a popular choice. I am about 5 seconds away from world number one with a Gallardo and ABS.

That is how I measure myself based on my driving preference - no aids and my own car of choice - as I never use particular car just because it is used by the top ten, but I prefer to challenge myself with other cars often not used

 

[Killermiller24]

Hehe, so i'm just within the top 0.3 % of all entries...but i'm far away of being an alien.....

 

[Saidur_Ali]

@eran0004 You are in the top 0.001% regarding effort 👍.

Another way to use the mygranturismo.net ranking system is to list the rank based on what car and aids do you use then see how your time stack up against similar car/aids used.

An example of my time at TT 45 - Italian car at Monza, I was using Ferrari 458 Italia, with 1:56.505 - no ABS or other aids and stick, I tuned the car myself as well.

Ranking for Ferrari 458 TT45, no ABS world rank.

I am 2nd on this particular rank view, out of 75 driver who has no ABS with 458, the 1st is using a wheel. The total drivers who uses 458 Italia regardless of aids is 5729 worldwide - not a popular choice. I am about 5 seconds away from world number one with a Gallardo and ABS.

That is how I measure myself based on my driving preference - no aids and my own car of choice - as I never use particular car just because it is used by the top ten, but I prefer to challenge myself with other cars often not used

You have to be careful on judging the rankings like that though as quite a lot of drivers might have switched to the faster car after setting very fast laps with the 458. The difference between 1st and 2nd place is +2.431 for the 458. I don't know exactly how competitive the 458 was in this TT but as an estimate, I would think that it should be at least possible to get into top 200 comfortably with no abs like you prefer, maybe even top 50 with a good tune.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

You have to be careful on judging the rankings like that though as quite a lot of drivers might have switched to the faster car after setting very fast laps with the 458. The difference between 1st and 2nd place is +2.431 for the 458. I don't know exactly how competitive the 458 was in this TT but as an estimate, I would think that it should be at least possible to get into top 200 comfortably with no abs like you prefer, maybe even top 50 with a good tune.

I am comparing against no assist ( ABS ) driver, as I have no interest comparing myself with ABS assist users as there's no point in it .

The fastest driver with no ABS is using a wheel with a time of 1:56.402, mine is 2nd at 1:56.505 with a stick.
There were only 60 458 Italia drivers worldwide who posted the time using manual transmission and without any assist - no TCS, no ASM, no ABS.

If I remove the car variable, with no ABS, no TCS, no ASM and manual rank :

There are only 621 drivers worldwide, which dominated by Gallardo, and I am ranked 51, the 2nd fastest 458 Italia without ABS and the fastest in the world with the stick and no assist using 458. If I discounted the 458 Italia only, I would rank 7th in the world who uses stick, manual and no assist-6 drivers above me are all Gallardo.

There are a total of 49,988 drivers worldwide who were using the Gallardo, while there were only 5729 drivers for 458 Italia.

These are just the way I stack myself against similar driver - no assist and stick. About the tune, I never really bother if my car has the best tune or not, I'll just tune it myself and drive like mad

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I am comparing against no assist ( ABS ) driver, as I have no interest comparing myself with ABS assist users as there's no point in it .

The fastest driver with no ABS is using a wheel with a time of 1:56.402, mine is 2nd at 1:56.505 with a stick.
There were only 60 458 Italia drivers worldwide who posted the time using manual transmission and without any assist - no TCS, no ASM, no ABS.

If I remove the car variable, with no ABS, no TCS, no ASM and manual rank :

There are only 621 drivers worldwide, which dominated by Gallardo, and I am ranked 51, the 2nd fastest 458 Italia without ABS and the fastest in the world with the stick and no assist using 458. If I discounted the 458 Italia only, I would rank 7th in the world who uses stick, manual and no assist-6 drivers above me are all Gallardo.

There are a total of 49,988 drivers worldwide who were using the Gallardo, while there were only 5729 drivers for 458 Italia.

These are just the way I stack myself against similar driver - no assist and stick. About the tune, I never really bother if my car has the best tune or not, I'll just tune it myself and drive like mad

There is probably very little in ABS and no ABS, stick or wheel, maybe a few tenths in it with all possible combinations regarding maximum potential. I drive ABS on 1 but am willing to drive no ABS next TT I participate in if you like.

Like I mentioned before, people could have set faster times with or without ABS and 458 and changed to the Gallardo so there will be a smaller number on the rankings with that car. ABS on 1 is more common so ABS on 0 rules out a lot of people. If I were you, I would be looking at gap to top and trying to fulfill the potential of the car and setup, you could potentially find about 4 seconds or more last TT. If you compare yourself only to small number to see how well you are doing, you might not look to improve. I could potentially look through filter settings and find a combo, that reduces the list to say less than 20. If I'm top of list but way off the pace, doesn't mean I'm doing well. This leads me back to the point of the thread, you have to look at rank in context.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

There is probably very little in ABS and no ABS, stick or wheel, maybe a few tenths in it with all possible combinations regarding maximum potential. I drive ABS on 1 but am willing to drive no ABS next TT I participate in if you like.

Like I mentioned before, people could have set faster times with or without ABS and 458 and changed to the Gallardo so there will be a smaller number on the rankings with that car. ABS on 1 is more common so ABS on 0 rules out a lot of people. If I were you, I would be looking at gap to top and trying to fulfill the potential of the car and setup, you could potentially find about 4 seconds or more last TT. If you compare yourself only to small number to see how well you are doing, you might not look to improve. I could potentially look through filter settings and find a combo, that reduces the list to say less than 20. If I'm top of list but way off the pace, doesn't mean I'm doing well. This leads me back to the point of the thread, you have to look at rank in context.

No need to drive without ABS, I am just showing how I view my time, I never cared about times posted using the most dominant car or assist users, call me ignorant but I preferred to look at the times posted with similar method of driving, as I felt there's no point in competing with wheel users or ABS users, they already have an advantage with better input and feedback + braking assist. For a stick user like me, why bother ...

 

[Saidur_Ali]

No need to drive without ABS, I am just showing how I view my time, I never cared about times posted using the most dominant car or assist users, call me ignorant but I preferred to look at the times posted with similar method of driving, as I felt there's no point in competing with wheel users or ABS users, they already have an advantage with better input and feedback + braking assist. For a stick user like me, why bother ...

There is still big potential for stick users to do beat vast majority of wheel users with or without ABS. Look here for example and see where samurai_405 ranks with no ABS and using stick. The point of bothering is to become a better driver at the game. Are you going to get a wheel?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

There is still big potential for stick users to do beat vast majority of wheel users with or without ABS. Look here for example and see where samurai_405 ranks with no ABS and using stick. The point of bothering is to become a better driver at the game. Are you going to get a wheel?

Only time will tell if I could get a wheel , I used to play PC sims with old trusty T2 wheel, it broke years ago . Had good times with GPL, NASCAR 2003, and many old 90's racing games. I often quench my thirst for wheel driving playing SEGA F355 Challenge Arcade with H shifter and clutch, but they are gone now If I can win on that SEGA F355 Arcade using clutch, will I be good enough playing with wheel on GT5 ?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Only time will tell if I could get a wheel , I used to play PC sims with old trusty T2 wheel, it broke years ago . Had good times with GPL, NASCAR 2003, and many old 90's racing games. I often quench my thirst for wheel driving playing SEGA F355 Challenge Arcade with H shifter and clutch, but they are gone now If I can win on that SEGA F355 Arcade using clutch, will I be good enough playing with wheel on GT5 ?

You can get DFGT's quite cheap, very good wheel. Don't see why you won't be able to get good enough with wheel. It is a bit different due to FFB, and much better in feel. You are missing out quite a lot on GT5 experience, get one if you can . Your enthusiasm for playing GT5 will reach new heights.

 

[eran0004]

Mega brilliant post there man, thanks! How long did it take you to get all of that 107015 entries into the log? Bit of an excel nut myself, wouldn't mind knowing how you did it either.

Well, simply copy-paste from the website It took about an hour, so as I said, a function to download all data at once would be awesome. Also, only the first 5000 positions are all counted, scince that's where there's some variations in lap times. For the rest I only counted every 1000th position scince such a huge sample gives a consistancy of an atomic watch. There's more variations after those who didn't achieve gold though, but I figured that's not as interesting as the top 5000.

 

[FormulaKimball]

Well, simply copy-paste from the website It took about an hour, so as I said, a function to download all data at once would be awesome. Also, only the first 5000 positions are all counted, scince that's where there's some variations in lap times. For the rest I only counted every 1000th position scince such a huge sample gives a consistancy of an atomic watch. There's more variations after those who didn't achieve gold though, but I figured that's not as interesting as the top 5000.

Have to add my 👍👍 on that most excellent and detailed data post, very interesting. Love how we can infer demographics of both driver skill and level of effort/interest.

To the OP, I think it's a mix of things but ultimately comes back to your rank for each event and how much you cared about that particular event and how you approached it. Picking the right car and knowing how to tune it are skills, just like the actual driving style that makes it work along with the patience to keep trying things to improve and the consistency to repeat things you know are faster. Yet I often just go for gold in a car that will make it difficult if I would otherwise not be interested in certain events. The latest Spa TT in the FGT was the first event where I put a lot of effort into my time, and in the end it was enough for 40th. The rest of the times where I did anywhere near that were mostly luck that the event coincided with cars/tracks I knew well.

On when/whether to get a wheel... it's a personal thing; I played 100% of GT3 and some of GT4 before I realized the controller was no longer sufficient if I wanted to keep improving in a way that would translate to real-world skill. Within 20 minutes of getting a wheel (DFP) I was already faster than with a controller just from the smoother inputs. But I also never used chase cam (not since Carmageddon or Vice City).

Driver aids or no ... depends on preference of course, I've had just 6 months of no-ABS. I think there's truth to the idea that with enough practice the difference is small, but then if ABS=0 were equally fast you'd see more than 9 people using that in the top 250 (rather than those few probably just accepting the handicap because they really really don't want to go back to ABS=1). So if you want to compare yourself only to those using the same assist settings to indicate how well you're doing, that's fair enough

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Driver aids or no ... depends on preference of course, I've had just 6 months of no-ABS. I think there's truth to the idea that with enough practice the difference is small, but then if ABS=0 were equally fast you'd see more than 9 people using that in the top 250 (rather than those few probably just accepting the handicap because they really really don't want to go back to ABS=1). So if you want to compare yourself only to those using the same assist settings to indicate how well you're doing, that's fair enough

I actually find it awkward driving with ABS now as the car feels much duller and I end up overcooking it on the brakes (after a year of no ABS).

I think the main reason people use ABS is because it's safer- overcook it with ABS and you can recover with some emergency braking. Overcook it without ABS and you don't have that liberty.

I think with enough practise the difference is minimal, if existent at all, except in some corners/situations. (Turn 1 at Daytona for example.) 👍

 

[Conza]

No need to drive without ABS, I am just showing how I view my time, I never cared about times posted using the most dominant car or assist users, call me ignorant but I preferred to look at the times posted with similar method of driving, as I felt there's no point in competing with wheel users or ABS users, they already have an advantage with better input and feedback + braking assist. For a stick user like me, why bother ...

I do find it interesting that we can compare ourselves on a level paying field, well mostly, I used a 458, ABS 1, and a wheel, but no real tune, so narrowing it down to who used the same car and wheel combo would be encouraging especially for a non-leading car here.

EDIT: HAHA, oh man, this is hilarious. I narrowed it down, 900 Wheel S, MT, asm off, no tcs, abs 1, Australia. I'm second last, AND, the only person who did worse than me, this is only in my country too btw, didn't get even gold! The leading guy here was 5.95 seconds off the pace compared to my 11. Well, that's an even playing field for you

EDIT 2: Well, found one of my times to be fairly proud of I suppose. Same method as above, but for 44#1 I was the 2nd fastest S500 '63 from Australia, and ranked 52nd (of 488) worldwide. Top 11%, not bad.