How Gran Turismo 7's Trailer Uses Real-Time Ray Tracing

504
Canada
montreal,quebec,canada
If a ps5 can do 4k 60fps and ray tracing ๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡

can that mean at 1440p or 1800pโ€ like GT Sport โ€œ can we see for the first time up to 120fps on consols
 
212
Ramosis
Ramosis
I have a question.


Does GT Sport have ray-tracing or not?

Just pre-baked ray tracing in enviroments. So, this is why we get fixed ToD and weather conditions in GTSport.

GT7 trailer and gameplay video already had ray tracing reflection's, but not shadows. So, I think we are half-way to get dinamic ToD and weather, if PD implements ray traced shadows, we could get all dinamic conditions. Anyways, PD can do some shortcuts to get dinamic condictions, using some tricks, like did in GT6, who knows...
 
270
Spain
Barcelona
topu999
This is only the first trailer for Gran Turismo 7 too, so there may be more yet to come from the studio.

This implies that there may not be more about GT7. I hope you didn't write that because you know something we don't, @Famine :lol:
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
72,877
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
I have a question.


Does GT Sport have ray-tracing or not?
Yes. It uses "Iris" ray tracing to create the environment lighting. However it is pre-rendered, not real-time. I put it in the article.
This implies that there may not be more about GT7. I hope you didn't write that because you know something we don't, @Famine :lol:
Well, it more implies that PD may optimise the processes further for future trailers and even the game.
 
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3
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
If a ps5 can do 4k 60fps and ray tracing ๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡

can that mean at 1440p or 1800pโ€ like GT Sport โ€œ can we see for the first time up to 120fps on consols
I'm sure I've heard Kaz saying he wants 240 fps but how he's going to achieve that + ray tracing is anyone's guess
 

Corsa

Premium
2,101
United States
United States
If a ps5 can do 4k 60fps and ray tracing ๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡๐Ÿ™‡

can that mean at 1440p or 1800pโ€ like GT Sport โ€œ can we see for the first time up to 120fps on consols

Itโ€™s been confirmed PS5 will have HDMI 2.1 correct?
If so I guess 120fps is possible, what the resolution will be is the question.

Iโ€™ve dabbled with ray tracing on PC, honestly wasnโ€™t super impressed with the trade off in FPS.
 
1,903
Brazil
Brazil
That cloud shot in the trailer is very promising,raytracing with dynamic time of day is a damn good upgrade from gt sport.
 
1,310
United States
New York
This video highlights the optimizations / concessions that PD have employed to get great performance alongside beautiful ray tracing. Sampling and rendering the ray traced reflections and lighting at 1/4 res or lower is a great idea to maintain the high FPS target within PS5โ€™s limitation. Bravo.
 
461
Spain
Spain
Well, from what I've seen so far, am I the only one who thinks this Ray tracing thing is overhyped?
I mean, yeah, more realistic lighting and reflections, nice, but, is it that important?
 
679
Canada
Longueuil
Well, from what I've seen so far, am I the only one who thinks this Ray tracing thing is overhyped?
I mean, yeah, more realistic lighting and reflections, nice, but, is it that important?

No but how can you justify selling more powerful consoles otherwise lol PS4 Pro is more than enough for most as the overwhelming majority uses 1080p monitors/TVs. Gotta use some fancy stuff!
 
71
Brazil
Brazil
GTSkyline235
I would like to express a feeling about graphical analysis on the PS5 and GT7, some people talking about that in the trailers there was a change in resolution, being a fake 4K kept at 30 FPS but having drops in certain games, and a bad raytracing used, that doesn't it has shaken my Hype but we must consider that the game industry is in the process of developing slowly due to the pandemic, and they are also in the initial stages with at least 6 months of development or more. In the case of GT7 people carefully analyzing the trailer and gameplay, like the pop-ins in the first curves in the tunnel, I hope that the PD is correcting these problems, they can still correct and use all the PS5's SSD capabilities, but this is very good with at least 6 months of development I think.

Verdict: Sony wouldn't let that happen with their promising video game and they will probably fix it and make games more optimized. I wonder how they used a type of MSI Afterburner to discover dropped frames in 4K trailers?

I'm not criticizing or negating the PS5, the console is beautiful and I'm struggling to buy one, I'm just telling you one event, I saw it from a Brazilian channel on You Tube and I'm sharing it with you.
 
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13
Canada
Canada
I too wonder if ray tracing is what is important for gt sport, if photo realism is what you get but at the cost of only enough cpu power that you end up racing against one Single AI opponent and theyโ€™re a ghost car, why bother? Save those resources for better AI or something. Isnโ€™t game play what makes a great game ? Also I need VR details ! Iโ€™m dying to know what VR means for GT7. Hopefully we can get a few ghost cars this time..
 
461
Spain
Spain
No but how can you justify selling more powerful consoles otherwise lol PS4 Pro is more than enough for most as the overwhelming majority uses 1080p monitors/TVs. Gotta use some fancy stuff!
Well its normal that after that many years we get a new generation playstation, however, they focus so much on graphics perfection. They should focus on creating more quantity of content faster, rather.
Big games nowadays take an eternity to be developed, sigh.
 

GT7mebe

(Banned)
39
United States
United States
As with most things with gaming its not a universal solution. To split it up we have:

which objects are in the ray tracing structure
ray tracing resolution
frame update of ray tracing
dynamic/static object ray tracing
diffusive affects from ray tracing (requires a lot more rays)

4K 60 FPS ray tracing is still impressive for an early PS5 title.
 

snc

249
Poland
Poland
Problem is Alex didn't find proof there is rt during gameplay (he said he need more gameplay to be sure)
 
143
United States
United States
Just pre-baked ray tracing in enviroments. So, this is why we get fixed ToD and weather conditions in GTSport.

GT7 trailer and gameplay video already had ray tracing reflection's, but not shadows. So, I think we are half-way to get dinamic ToD and weather, if PD implements ray traced shadows, we could get all dinamic conditions. Anyways, PD can do some shortcuts to get dinamic condictions, using some tricks, like did in GT6, who knows...
If there is not dynamic weather,or what you described, some will not be happy, PD kind of gave a nod to it in the trailer, I feel. It does not bother me, but they should be able to something like it done.

I am in the great ai camp if resources are being divided up.
 
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1,193
Serbia
Serbia
Warlock__SRB
snc
Problem is Alex didn't find proof there is rt during gameplay (he said he need more gameplay to be sure)

...if you look closely at the beginning of race, where driven car is approaching red Mazda, there is no raytraced car in back of red Mazda. Also in tunnel, at the back straight Aston Martin has strange reflection refresh rate/flicker, same as in GTS TBH
 
20,467
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
No but how can you justify selling more powerful consoles otherwise lol PS4 Pro is more than enough for most as the overwhelming majority uses 1080p monitors/TVs. Gotta use some fancy stuff!
Actual useful features and visual embellishments?

I'd personally find dynamic weather, realistic damage, large 40 car grids, big crowds and other track furniture that make things feel alive more exciting.

Better lighting? Meh, it already looked pretty damn good.
 

eran0004

Premium
9,654
Sweden
Sweden
eran0004
I too wonder if ray tracing is what is important for gt sport, if photo realism is what you get but at the cost of only enough cpu power that you end up racing against one Single AI opponent and theyโ€™re a ghost car, why bother? Save those resources for better AI or something. Isnโ€™t game play what makes a great game ? Also I need VR details ! Iโ€™m dying to know what VR means for GT7. Hopefully we can get a few ghost cars this time..

AI is handled by the cpu while graphics is handled by the gpu. So there is no conflict between raytracing and better AI.
 
455
...gameplay shown in demo didn't had raytracing at all, while trailer did have.
The gameplay is not evaluable if it had RT or not.
As DF also says: from the few gameplay shots, it's too difficult to say if there is or not.
Certainly, from the video comparisons with GTS, the lighting inside the cabin has taken a decided step forward.

...if you look closely at the beginning of race, where driven car is approaching red Mazda, there is no raytraced car in back of red Mazda. Also in tunnel, at the back straight Aston Martin has strange reflection refresh rate/flicker, same as in GTS TBH
The driven car is a mazda with the same color as the other mazda.
I have tried over and over again to see some reflections, but it is too difficult because the movement is too fast and the distances are not enough to understand it.
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
72,877
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
I'd personally find dynamic weather, realistic damage, large 40 car grids, big crowds and other track furniture that make things feel alive more exciting.

Better lighting? Meh, it already looked pretty damn good.
GT Sport used a pre-rendered ray tracing solution for the environments, and that was pretty much the reason why there's neither dynamic weather nor time. Real-time ray tracing should change that and make dynamic weather and time possible again.
snc
Problem is Alex didn't find proof there is rt during gameplay (he said he need more gameplay to be sure)
You can see it pretty clearly in the interior shot of the Carrera GT, in a couple of places. The most obvious is the reflection of the helmet in the reflection of the mirror - as the car goes into the shadow of the tunnel, the driver's lid also goes into shadow in the mirror. That's an inter-reflection - the effect of the reduction in light reflected in the helmet is reflected in the reflection of the helmet in the rear-view mirror - which is RTRT in action. You'll also spot the reflection of the tacho needle in the bezel (which is something also shown earlier in the clip in a close up of the binnacle, but this is during gameplay, or at least a replay).
 
59
United Kingdom
Milton Keynes
The most obvious is the reflection of the helmet in the reflection of the mirror - as the car goes into the shadow of the tunnel, the driver's lid also goes into shadow in the mirror. That's an inter-reflection - the effect of the reduction in light reflected in the helmet is reflected in the reflection of the helmet in the rear-view mirror - which is RTRT in action.

I thought the reflection of the helmet was pretty interesting, because as far as I could see, there's no reflection of the car itself reflected in the surfact of the helmet reflected in the mirror. It might be that in the mirror there's a cubemap or some kind of hybrid solution for reflective surfaces. Because earlier in the trailer, where you see the BAC Mono, you can clearly see the car reflected in the driver's helmet.

It might be that I'm wrong and it's just the angle of the mirror, but I'd at least have expected to see the roof of the car reflected in the helmet. It's one of those things that looks really bad in non-RT games where you can see the outside environment reflected in a driver's helmet in onboard shots when in an totally enclosed car.

Edited to add - one other thing I noticed was what appears to be bounce lighting on the rollcage and roof of the Mazda in the gameplay sections, which as far as I can tell doesn't show up in GT Sport. I know that's an effect that can be faked without RT, but it would make sense for the dynamic weather if there was some kind of RT global illumination as well as reflections.
 

Famine

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GTP_Famine
It might be that I'm wrong and it's just the angle of the mirror, but I'd at least have expected to see the roof of the car reflected in the helmet.
The Carrera GT is a convertible. Perhaps the roof was off.
 
1,193
Serbia
Serbia
Warlock__SRB
The gameplay is not evaluable if it had RT or not.
As DF also says: from the few gameplay shots, it's too difficult to say if there is or not.
Certainly, from the video comparisons with GTS, the lighting inside the cabin has taken a decided step forward.


The driven car is a mazda with the same color as the other mazda.
I have tried over and over again to see some reflections, but it is too difficult because the movement is too fast and the distances are not enough to understand it.

...it's not that difficult to see, you can see road, even lanes of the road, kerbs, environment... except cars... even if it is red, it should be seen because there is road and lanes... (download 4k60 video and you'll see)

I am sure that engine used in demo was GTSport engine without upgrades, because PD wanted to be safe and run demo without hiccups...