how important is a 50/50 ratio?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Smackinjuice
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Smackinjuice

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has anyone noticed better lap times? I only got this idea cause a lot of people are doing it for the new expert races with the fiat, elise, subaru.

Is it worth it? more specially for these races if your only 1 second behind each lap.
 
I found that when I tried to make some cars 50/50, it completely ruined the way the car handled. I think for some cars 50/50 is good, but for others, in order to get it to 50/50 you have to put a lot of ballast really far to one end, which isn't necessarily good.
 
Not quite sure what you are trying to ask here. Could you explain a little bit more? You could be talking about the weight balance, to the torque sensing center differential, to the adjustable LSD, to many other things...
 
If you're talking about 50/50 weight distribution, then no it isn't good to place a ballast in the car simply to achieve it. If you have a front heavy car and place more weight far backward, it only increases the moment of inertia, which causes the vehicle to require more force (grip) to rotate.
 
oh yeah I meant weight; and I don't mean adding weight just for the sake of 50/50 balance; but if you WERE to add weight to make weight; how would you want it?

what's advantage of 50/50?
whats advantage of front heavy
and rear heavy? what difference does it make?

thank you ! :D
 
Well, on Best Motoring one of the guys who worked on the 350Z said a 50:50 ratio wasn't necessarily good. Of course, Mazda and others would probably argue, but he said the 350Z was set up to have a 53:47 ratio. This is because as you brake to turn in to a corner, it helps to have weight on the front end of the car, obviously to increase your grip. Then, as you accelerate through the turn, that's when you want a perfect balance, so when the weight shifts backwards during acceleration the bias is evened out.
 
You lads are missing a few key points here.

Is a 50/50 weight distro good? Yes. Is it "better"? That depends.

A car that is ENGINEERED to HAVE a 50/50 and then TUNED for that 50/50 will surely be better than a car without. As an example... you can TRY and use PD's silly PP system and buy yourself a Honda S2000. This car has a 50/50 weight distro. Break the car in all the way (hand it to Bob if you want) and then change the oil again and refresh the chassis. Run a set of 5 laps on a track of your choice and note the average time. Then add about 150kg of ballast all the way at the front or back, and modify the engine so that the PP ends up being the same, but change nothing with the transmission or handling etc. and run the same 5 lap set after an oil change and chassis refresh. I bet you'll see slower times.

HOWEVER. On the other hand, if you had a car that was tuned and engineered to have a 60/40 weight distro (or whatever) and conducted the same experiment, I'm betting you'd find similar results.

So to more aptly answer the question. A 50/50 weight distribution is more desirable for car balance and handling, as well as tire and component wear. Simply adding ballast to MAKE a car 50/50 in many cases will not yield faster times/results.
 
I've used Weight Ballast on the Caterham Fireblade. I think I only put maybe 50-60 kilos at the rear to help keep the thing from kicking out so much around corners so it can be properly drifted without struggling so much with the steering, and keep up with the more powerful cars drifting around the circuit. I have raised the camber on the back wheels to work with that and it works like a dream. Its definitely not 50/50 though.

I wouldn't recommend you use 50/50 balance in weight because it causes understeer, you need the weight to be more focused on the front so that the rear wheels can spin a bit faster to help push the car around the bend. More pressure on those rear wheels is just going to give you less momentum.
 
oh yeah I meant weight; and I don't mean adding weight just for the sake of 50/50 balance; but if you WERE to add weight to make weight; how would you want it?

what's advantage of 50/50?
whats advantage of front heavy
and rear heavy? what difference does it make?

thank you ! :D

If I were to add weight to my car, such as success ballast or in order to make minimum weight regulations (like I do on my Miata), I would place the weight as central and low in the car as possible. This has the least effect on the mass moment of inertia, which means that the car can still be rotated as easily as the situation allows. In the Miata that I race in real life, there is a 75 pound weight bolted to the floor where the passenger seat used to be.

A car with 50/50 weight distribution, such as the Miata, will handle pretty similarly both on the entry and exits of corners.

In a front heavy car, like a Mustang, with a large mass up front, the car will have trouble rotating on the entry of the corner in order to get down to the apex, and will tend to push wide. Very careful brake management would be required in order to rotate the car. The car will have a tendency to power-oversteer easily on the exits, if it is RWD, due to less weight pressing down on the rear wheels.

Something which is rear-weight biased, like a Porsche (with 63% on the rear), will get skittish on the entry of corners. A rear-biased car tends to get the most varied handling traits in my experience. A Porsche will try to spin if you enter a corner while off the throttle, with no brake or very light brake applied. However, the grip lost on entry is made up for in acceleration off the corner, because that weight pressing down on the rear wheels grows the more you accelerate. So Porsches are very good at getting acceleration off the corner if the throttle is used correctly to maintain cornering speed. But you have to be careful because they have a tendency to understeer on the exits.

But Porsches have a high mass moment of inertia due to the excessive overhang of the rear engine and bodywork. A Lotus Exige has the exact same weight distribution, but most of the weight is centralized (in addition of the fact there is much less of it overall), so it rotates quicker and minimizes those strange handling characteristics I was talking about.

TLDR, adding weight ballast is probably most effective in the very middle of the car in most cases, unless you're trying to solve a specific handling problem that just won't go away with normal suspension setup tweaks.
 
Of course, when changing the weight distribution, suspensions will have to be tuned accordingly. If that is not done, the car will not handle properly.
 

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