How much difference Logitech DF Pro to T500RS???

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birdseed007
Guys,

Hoping to get some views. I currently mainly race GT5 and GT6 and use a long serving/suffering! Logitech Driving Force Pro that I bought for PC racing and also GT4 on the PS2!! I'm not a fanatical racer - I go through phases where I might play it for 5-10 days everyday and then not touch it for a few weeks or months and then come back and play again for a while.

On the other hand I have loved car racing games and flight simulation games for nearly 30 years and have invested in Thrustmaster gear heavily over the years for Flight simulation because to me (as a real world pilot) Thrustmaster are the only company who really ever made joysticks that truly feel like the real thing and the man-machine interface is as important to realism as the code in the simulation itself.

So I'm very tempted to push the 'go' button on a T500RS - I've read the reviews and watched videos and there's no doubt that it's a very fine wheel. I'm not particularly bothered about shaving a second or two off laptimes - what I'm really interested in is whether the Thrustmaster will 'feel' more like driving a real car - the man machine interface again... My wife drove GT6 for the first time last night and remarked to me that nothing really felt like you were driving a real car and she's right - at least on my current set up.

I will be getting a wheelstand pro for Christmas and for sure I think that will help provide a more stable platform than my current laptop table anyway but I'm curious just how much difference will the T500RS make?? Does it communicate the road better, does it load up in bends better, can you feel the back end start to break away on oversteer or is it still limited to a great degree by the limitations in the GT6 code??

I would be very grateful for any views.

Thanks

Saxon
 
Hi, I used to have the DFP before I jumped to G25 and then jumped to T500RS.

I'll answer your question by telling you about some laps I did yesterday with my T500RS (T5) wheel.

I took the Corvette Stingray (C7) 15. anniv. Edition out on the Matterhorn track in the National A - 500 PP Clubman Cup.
Sports Hard, all aids off, including ABS=0.

It's kind of difficult to describe just how incredible the driving sensation was, but I'll give it a shot. :)

As you may know the track itself consists of steep hill climbs and ditto downhills. When coming too fast over the first top the wheels lifted and for a split second the T5 was really easy to turn around, as it should be. And then I felt a pull in the T5 as the car landed with a thud. I went wheels screeching into the roadside posters.
At the end of the long downhill there's a sharp left turn in a slope. I punched the brakes, the wheels locked and I felt the car starting to wobble. Then the back went out and I went a bit sideways into the turn. That's when I discovered (through the T5) that there were many little bumps in the road. On every little bump the wheels would make a screech sound and I would feel a tiny pull/jerk in the T5. It happened very fast, imagine screech-silence-screech-silence-screech repeated many times really fast. The whole sensation was so awesome I just laughed out loud in pure enthusiasm. :) This also happened in Mount Panorama (Bathurst) in the tight downhhill turns.

Every car is different of course, but you can feel the weight of the car much better now than in GT5, and yes you can feel/hear when the back starts to break away and easily (mostly) catch it. You will feel the difference in grip between Comforts and Sports also; the more grip the heavier the T5 is to turn. When driving up on the curbs you will feel a little jerk and then vibration from all the grooves in the curbs. Hell, you can almost feel which of the wheels hit the curb first. It's completely awesome (apologies for sounding like a 10 year old :)). And you will also feel when you hit the grass or sand on the roadside.

The difference between the DFP and the T500RS is huge! The T500RS was great in GT5, but in GT6 it's amazing. It feels like driving a real car! It's just so damn fun! :) The T500RS turns so much smoother, silent and faster than the DFP and it feels just spot on.

Note however that the earlier versions of the T500RS - including mine - has a fan that might seem a bit loud in the beginning at least. I think the later models have a better fan. Not sure, maybe others can tell you.

Anyway, I will heavily recommend a T500RS in combination with GT6. It is so incredibly fun to drive, and believe me, GT6 will feel like a completely different game. There is just no comparison at all.
 
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I put some thoughts in the T500RS monster thread, as have many others.

A friend dropped by last weekend, who uses the G25 himself. His first words upon using the T500RS+GT6 were "this feels so much more like a real car" (in comparison he never liked my Fanatec GT2 much which has the same rim size, too much damping).

GT6 FFB on the T500RS is quite a lot better than T500RS on GT5, let alone the feel I recall from my years playing Gran Turismo on the DFGT. Each car feels very different (in terms of steering weight, steering accuracy, suspension feel, etc...), and I feel curbs, weight transfer, loss of grip, wheel goes light if you understeer or crest a hill, bumps in the road, sliding, and probably a bunch of things I don't really notice.
Also very importantly the T500RS motor is sufficient to get out of the way most of the time. If you let go of the wheel when the car is turning you expect it to spin quickly following the front wheels, and the T500RS manages this respectably (not perfectly, that would require a considerably larger motor still).

The least convincing element of the T500RS is the motor cogging feel, which (while not as bad as cog-based wheels from Logitech) you obviously don't get in a real car. But there's no doubt in my mind that the T500RS has a quite natural feel which means I just get on with racing and don't feel limited by it.
 
The DFP was my first wheel. In a few words, the difference is HUGE and it WILL take time to get used to it. The rim of the DFP is tiny, whereas the stock GT rim of the T500RS is very large, definitely larger in diameter than the average wheel in the market. The FF is so powerful but so much smoother than the DFP -- with the DFP you can't really counter steer or make abrupt corrections without worrying about breaking the wheel, or without annoying your spouse / kids with the ensuing noise. :lol:

A switch from a DFP to a T500RS is a big one -- obviously more so than from a DFGT or G25, but you won't regret it. :)
 
Big difference. While the DFP and the T500 certainly do the same thing bascially the same way, the T500 is just bigger, faster, stronger, you name it. Is it 5x the price (of it's DFGT replacement) better? Well, that's up to you... but after using mine for a few months I felt pretty secure selling my G27, which had "replaced" my DFP.

I would like to talk about how AWESOME it is that the DFP still works tho, and is still supported. I actually still have mine as a backup/console/kids wheel of sorts, and yeah, it's got that small rim and mushy feel (because of the older style gearing) but it works basically like the day it was new, and that's after many hours of NFS Underground 1 & 2, Initial D, GT4, GT5P and GT5...
 
Hi u744261 - I use a T500RS and Wheelstand pro and I'm completely happy with both as I am sure you will be. Can I suggest that you ramp up the realism / immersion even more by adding tactile transducers to add engine vibration and kerb thumps to your seat or sofa. Sinus Live Bass Pump 3's offer a good tactile effect for the money and are readily available in the UK.
 
Here's another question and answer... (I've owned and used the DFGT, which is a good wheel for the price. pedals, meh)

After using the T500RS, would I ever go back to using a DFGT?

Answer: Absolutely NOT unless I had no choice in the matter.

While the DFGT is solid and quite strong for it's cost/size. It is on a separate level in my opinion, as has been pointed out here a few times. :)
 
Some really good replies here and I have as a result of your overwhelming praise for it ordered a T500RS from dabs.com for delivery tomorrow.

The Wheelstand Pro is also arriving tomorrow so if all goes well it should be quite a day!! I do love unwrapping some boys toys - especially when I have a few days off work to enjoy them (I'm in the middle of a ten day block of leave)

Will let you know how I get on and once again many thanks to everyone for your input.

u744261
 
I don't know if you'll be any faster, but it's a major upgrade. I went from a G27 to the T500 and the biggest difference was the feeling you get. It does feel a lot more like driving a real car. So if that's your main worry, I'd say you have nothing to worry about. You'll love it.
 
Enjoy your new wheel! :)

You will get the best effect with the stock tyres delivered with each car (I think), and with all aids off. Or perhaps ABS at 1, since it's more difficult to brake with that at 0.

And do yourself a favor and try the Stingray on one of the Matterhorn tracks. Those tracks are great!
 
difference between the 2 is quite noticeable. not sure T500 will make you quicker, but there is no doubt it gives a better feel. if you never tried it you could go on and still enjoy the game; however if you try a t500 then it's hard to go back to a DF Pro or DF GT

I went to the Spa Classic a few months ago and went to the Nissan booth where they had DF GT. I played and just felt meh, and walked away.

my 2 cents
 
Well once again thanks for all the comments. I did in fact go for the T500RS and the wheelstand pro and both are just fantastic. The wheelstand pro is so brilliant that I think it would have significantly enhanced even my Driving Force Pro if I had used the two together. As some have said I'm not sure I'm faster with the T500RS but it certainly adds greatly to the immersion in the sim.

I do have a couple of minor issues though:

The T500RS seems to suffer from a minor niggle in that when I leave it on and plugged in all night a couple of times I have come back to it to find that the up down buttons on the left of the keypad have malfunctioned. Basically it's as if someone is permanently pressing the down button even if they aren't. I cured it both times by switching off and then on again. Grateful for any advice - not sure which firmware I have or how to check.

Secondly the whole lot is coupled into a pretty high end home cinema system involving a Pioneer AV amp and also naim pre-power amps driving the front speakers. Whenever the T500RS is plugged in and switched on I get a mains hum through my front speakers presumably because the transformer for the T500RS is putting a load of interference back into my mains and naim amps are notorious for being sensitive to mains hum. has anyone else experienced this?

Anyway thanks for all the advice. I was racing online until 3.30am last night. Think I need to get a headset and also find some private racing sessions because I found the online stuff quite frustrating. You can't seem to tell how powerful the cars are before you enter the room. Several rooms I tried had limits supposedly of 450pp but when I went in there with my lightly modded GT86 people were driving round in all sorts of crazy racing cars and basically were much much faster than I was which made for uncompetitive races.

If anyone has any recommendations for how to join up with people to race equivalent cars I'm all ears.

Thanks again,

Birdseed007
 
Glad you are enjoying your wheel and stand. I haven't had any problems with hum, but my sound system is not high end stuff. I use an EX03 blue tooth ear piece which is ok for online (about £10-£15 from argos or asda etc).

I also had a lot of disappointing online experiences = people driving cars in the wrong direction, driving red bull X2010's etc or not doing any racing - just endlessly faffing about. The easiest way to get a consistent good online experience was to join or host some shuffle races, but unfortunately that option has been deleted from GT6! In the end I started hosting my own race meetings / championships. We race every Sunday at 17:00 GMT normally set cars e.g. RM or GT500 etc - if you are interested send me an FR - fast or slow anyone who tries to race cleanly is welcome.
 
Like you, I have a Pioneer AV amp (SC-LX71) as well and no issues with interference. I used to have a Rotel power amp hooked up to the Pioneer for the floorstanders and didn't have a problem then either. Maybe the Naim are sensitive. have you tried moving the power cord away from the amps to see if the sound interference is still there? not sure but it can't hurt to try
 
Thanks guys - think I will check with DABS if I can get a different transformer in case it's that. Also have just received a TH*RS shifter for Christmas and noticed that the screw to stiffen resistance was screwed pretty much all the way clockwise and yet the shifter still feels really light and easy to move (much easier than any real car. Is this right - I had expected with the screw all the way clockwise it should provide quite a lot of resistance but it doesn't.

Just want to make sure it's working OK.

Sick cyclinder thansk for the invitation to join you racing - I will try and hook up (I work shifts but sometimes will undoubtedly be around)

Thanks again,

U744261
 

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