How much is too much?

[Mavryk]

I've been reading alot about how PD has made this a very reralistic game, but not enough. Seriously, how much is really needed? If PD decided to go all out and make this a TRUELY realistic game, nobody would play it. Think about this for a sec.

Accidents. Here's a biggie. If you hit the wall at 150+ mph would you be able to flip the car over and continue driving in the real world? Not a chance. And as a video game, nobody will want to be in the ICU for 6 months.

I also hear alot about lighting, how it's not true to life. Too dark or too bright. Is anyone complaining about the lack of road glare from a wet road? Nope. For those of us who have driven down a road with a harsh glare, there is litterally nothing you can do about it. Sun visor doesn't work, squinting dosn't work. For those of you who haven't been in that situation, be glad. It makes the blast of bright light from exiting a tunnel a joy. At least that goes away in a few seconds.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

It is a way to say what people would appreciate most as next change.
We do seem to trust Kaz in getting his priorities right, however inspiring him a bit seems to have helped in the evolution that we saw in GT5, so why not continue.

 

[Samus]

There is no need to go to extremes, nobody is expecting them to model a hospital and have you in there playing GTSP for six months from your bed after a big crash but that doesn't mean crash damage and physics couldn't be made more realistic.

 

[SicKmcNasTy]

I would much prefer a truly realistic racing game, unfortunately my PC can't run any of the higher end PC sims. I love GT5 though as it is fun and since it's on console it is quite easy to use/setup.

 

[interpolfan11]

There is no need to go to extremes, nobody is expecting them to model a hospital and have you in there playing GTSP for six months from your bed after a big crash but that doesn't mean crash damage and physics couldn't be made more realistic.

Agreed 👍

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I would play iracing if I had the money. Unfortunately I dont. So yes I want more realism.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I do want damage to be higher. I want it to be possible to wreck a car so bad that it won't continue. And I want you to have to pay money for any repairs. And if a car is damaged enough,I want it totaled and you have to buy another one.

 

[Eric W]

I would love for Gran Turismo to be able to be as realistic as possible. Tire blow outs, engine, and other mechanical failures would make this the ultimate racing game but I can see how this level of realism would deter many people for enjoying the game.

Of course, most people would just disable the damage model for online racing but I would still like to have the choice of racing with a full damage model.

But I just don't see this ever happening since this game is more geared to the average player instead of the hardcore sim racers.

I remember playing NASCAR 2 on the PC back in the 90's and if you wrecked your car you were done, race over! This is the realism that I want out of a game.

 

[Rotorist]

I would love for Gran Turismo to be able to be as realistic as possible. Tire blow outs, engine, and other mechanical failures would make this the ultimate racing game. This is the realism that I want out of a game.

My thoughts exactly my friend. 👍 And if someone thinks of mechanical failures as extra-difficult to have any entertainment racing against them, it is easy enough to have these options engaged only in Extreme and Endurance in order for someone to have the choice to join these events whenever he feels ready! 💡

 

[shirakawaa]

I've been reading alot about how PD has made this a very reralistic game, but not enough. Seriously, how much is really needed? If PD decided to go all out and make this a TRUELY realistic game, nobody would play it. Think about this for a sec.

Just add an "easy mode" enabled by default so that people that don't care will be happy. In GT5 there were "Standard" and "Professional" physics. In a future version of GT6 they could have global "Standard" and "Professional" realism settings. The first could for example use no or little damage, skid recovery force, simplified physics, etc. The latter, advanced physics, realistic damage, advanced car settings, etc.

 

[Vaxxtx]

I would love for Gran Turismo to be able to be as realistic as possible. Tire blow outs, engine, and other mechanical failures would make this the ultimate racing game but I can see how this level of realism would deter many people for enjoying the game.

Of course, most people would just disable the damage model for online racing but I would still like to have the choice of racing with a full damage model.

But I just don't see this ever happening since this game is more geared to the average player instead of the hardcore sim racers.

I remember playing NASCAR 2 on the PC back in the 90's and if you wrecked your car you were done, race over! This is the realism that I want out of a game.

Thats one of the big reasons online racing in a public lobby in about any game is a smashfest.

Other games I play, I only play in sim damage, and not surprisigly, 9 out of 10 races are clean. Now, every now and then you mess up and flip or total your car, and the race is over, but its worth it for a decent clean race. People race better when they know making an unsafe can end their race too.

 

[Eric W]

Imagine this level of damage in GT6!

 

[adeadsnipermatt]

Imagine this at 200mph!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvH-6IoZ4Kw">YouTube Link</a>

Every one of those crashes are unrealistic. It seems like that Aston is a reenforced as a car from Burnout.

But from a computing view point the amount of deformation from the modeling is nice.

 

[Nielsen]

You're taking this amusingly far. It's probably unlikely that the car companies would like to associate their GT5 lineup with some virtual hospitalization. That would be great marketing. People just want a more refined racing experience to compliment the great physics. However, it seems that PD is mostly concerned with making a diverse driving game and racing just happens to be a secondary aspect which pushes game forward. It can be achieved with better AI, tyre simulation etc. but we can't have it all when we're driving licensed cars. I think most people are aware of this when they ask for improvements.

 

[Eric W]

Accidents. Here's a biggie. If you hit the wall at 150+ mph would you be able to flip the car over and continue driving in the real world? Not a chance. And as a video game, nobody will want to be in the ICU for 6 months.

And god forbid that you driver actually dies in the game which in turn flat lines the PS3....wait a sec...YLOD.

 

[Samus]

Every one of those crashes are unrealistic. It seems like that Aston is a reenforced as a car from Burnout.

But from a computing view point the amount of deformation from the modeling is nice.

I think most of those are quite realistic actually, all modern cars are strong but if they crash at very high speed like that they are going to get smashed to smithereens. Just take a look at wreckedexotics.com for evidence.

They are from a non fatal accident, many of those shown in the video would have been fatal.

But still we'll never see damage anything close to that in a video game in the near future for two reasons. Firstly it just won't be possible this generation to have a high detailed model deform as much as that in a realtime game and secondly there is no way manufacturers would allow it.

 

[awr117]

As much as I'd love to see it, It'll never happen.

 

[G219]

I do want damage to be higher. I want it to be possible to wreck a car so bad that it won't continue. And I want you to have to pay money for any repairs. And if a car is damaged enough,I want it totaled and you have to buy another one.

I would love for Gran Turismo to be able to be as realistic as possible. Tire blow outs, engine, and other mechanical failures would make this the ultimate racing game but I can see how this level of realism would deter many people for enjoying the game.

Of course, most people would just disable the damage model for online racing but I would still like to have the choice of racing with a full damage model.

Just add an "easy mode" enabled by default so that people that don't care will be happy. In GT5 there were "Standard" and "Professional" physics. In a future version of GT6 they could have global "Standard" and "Professional" realism settings. The first could for example use no or little damage, skid recovery force, simplified physics, etc. The latter, advanced physics, realistic damage, advanced car settings, etc.

After giving it some thought, I agree with these guys. And maybe a full damage model won't/can't be done, but at least you can beat Burnout.

 

[Mavryk]

Alot of you made some very good points. I can see PD bringing more damage to the game in the future as an option. The tire blow idea I like. As well as other details like engines over-heating, paying for body damage up to a limit.

What about the option of building your own racecar from scratch? Put in the parts you want, including the engine, instead of modifying an exsisting car?

Have dyno tests in the shops instead of the game automatically telling you what specific parts give you.

Gaming consoles are getting so advanced these days that there should be no problem coming up with this kind of detail. And like some of you mentioned, have it an option. If you're one of those detail-oriented people, then you can go full-bore. If all you want to do is jump in a car and drive it, then you can do that too and let the system take care of all the intricate stuff.

 

[GTP_Gearhead]

It would never be too much.
One of my greatest requests from PD would be a DNF. Increased damage realism (not necessarily modeling) is what I'm after. Sure, a car being smashed up adds to the immersion but if your able to finish a race after a 150mph wall encounter, your not doing a good job of simulation.
The permanent damage option helps, but does not come full circle. As crazy as it sounds,we need to be able to have a DNF. This would self police online lobbies.

 

[JohnBM01]

Let's think about it like a balancing scale for me to prove my point.

Gran Turismo games are usually a balancing act. Do you put heavier weights towards more arcade-style driving or more towards realism? Making GT more realistic than it is will surely suit those looking for the most raw racing and driving experience. However, you run the risk of having the casual racing fan not enjoy it as much, as the casual racer feels severely punished for pushing a car too hard to really enjoy the game. So I think Gran Turismo is realistic, but only SO realistic. That's why I love playing GT even though I have the very real rFactor as well as the very first GTR on my PC. It is a realistic racing experience while not being too realistic to where I would feel punished for trying to push a car further than it supposed to. Make a racing game too realistic, and you run the risk of not making it as accessible and as fun.

On the other hand, more can be done to make the experience more realistic without going overboard in any such respect. Certain better dynamics and such can be modified to more realistic while still being fun to race. Making the game more realistic than it is can only help make the game better. Most of how much to make it better depends on a number of factors. I always thought the notion of damage was always if PD could establish a close-enough bond with the represented makes and constructors in the game. There's realism and playability to be considered. I don't think you can sacrifice, compromise, or misconstrue either element in trying to build a solid racing game.

And one last thing- no matter how realistic a racing game is, you can never fully enact every last detail (including suffering injuries and death). So, you can afford to be just a little unrealistic. It's just a game.

 

[zedextreme8177]

The key thing needed here are:

OPTIONS



Players who want a really immersive and realistic experience should have the chance of having ultra-realistic damage, where you aren't able to continue after a single crash, your engines/gearbox can be destroyed by being too aggressive, etc.

A casual gamer should be allowed to have a fun experience, without all the worry of a single race-ending crash, lack of mechanical damage, etc.

Of course, knowing how excellent PD are at providing us with options for gameplay, we will not likely see this being implemented

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

I think its real enough but it could be better.
Yep options is the key word.Racing in arcade mode with mech damage makes the game so much funner.Just imagine if they improved on it.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I would play iracing if I had the money. Unfortunately I dont. So yes I want more realism.

It's not that expensive, pick a series you want to race in, then buy the car you need or two, and finally buy the tracks needed. After that it's not that much a month. I only paid 8 dollars a month which is a little more than DLC for GT5 a month oh and you get paid to race each month which goes toward the game and saving money on other stuff. Everyone makes iRacing sound expensive and it's those who have never subscribed.

I've been reading alot about how PD has made this a very reralistic game, but not enough. Seriously, how much is really needed? If PD decided to go all out and make this a TRUELY realistic game, nobody would play it. Think about this for a sec.

A lot of us play the new F1 games to the extreme and it his highly realistic as far as what would happen if you hit the back of another car and mechanical damage. Also you saying no one would play it is subjective seeing as a few people (myself as well) would play it. Seeing as you're new there are several threads that you might want to read through before you try to tackle this, we've all on both sides thought about it for an ocean full of seconds.

Accidents. Here's a biggie. If you hit the wall at 150+ mph would you be able to flip the car over and continue driving in the real world? Not a chance. And as a video game, nobody will want to be in the ICU for 6 months.

Not a biggie, why would you model an ICU, what does that have to do with racing, we're not asking for real life and everything else. By your view we could also look at it like this. I'm driving and I get a message from my pit crew, they tell me my virtual grand mother died. So from your logic their should be a funeral for me to attend after the race. See how asinine we can make things as you've done. The point that seems to roll on by you is that we're not asking for a video game reality with racing as the center piece. We're asking for a true sim racer not simcade. That is the true difference.

I also hear alot about lighting, how it's not true to life. Too dark or too bright. Is anyone complaining about the lack of road glare from a wet road? Nope. For those of us who have driven down a road with a harsh glare, there is litterally nothing you can do about it. Sun visor doesn't work, squinting dosn't work. For those of you who haven't been in that situation, be glad. It makes the blast of bright light from exiting a tunnel a joy. At least that goes away in a few seconds.

Haven't heard too much about this, except there is an issue with time changes that is quite visible if you've done a lot of racing like most of us had. There are black/purple spots that black out and skip in graphics, and there have been plenty of threads here to show it. There are many other issues that are much more massive than what you attempted.

If you don't like a realistic game that makes you practice over and over till you can drive the car without getting a dent on it, maybe you should go for arcade like game. Mario Kart Wii is quite popular.

 

[mr_serious]

As was said earlier OPTIONS is the key. There is no reason whatsoever to not have an option for proper crash & mechanical damage (off-road traction could be improved a lot too). If people want a casual driving experience all they have to do is play in 'easy' mode with no damage etc...

Damage is a critical and necessary element of racing, not having it removes the most compelling constraint placed on real drivers. Anyone can be fast, but being fast without totalling the car is another thing entirely.

I would also like them to introduce some realism in the offline & seasonal event construction. Ie Not starting from the back 30s behind the leaders with some very vague restrictions that your competitors never attempt to meet. This is not racing, it is in fact the most arcadey gameplay I have ever encountered in a video game.

Until they introduce some realism into the gameplay I can't see how they can claim GT5 is a simulator and still keep a straight face.

I played GT5 recently for the first time in months having been playing Shift 2 for the last 6 months. The single player gameplay is nothing like racing at all, and looking at the logs none of my friends have touched it for months either so no online racing with people I know. It's back on the bottom of the game pile again now. So very sad for that to happen to a GT installment.

 

[xSNAKEx]

It's not that expensive, pick a series you want to race in, then buy the car you need or two, and finally buy the tracks needed. After that it's not that much a month. I only paid 8 dollars a month which is a little more than DLC for GT5 a month oh and you get paid to race each month which goes toward the game and saving money on other stuff. Everyone makes iRacing sound expensive and it's those who have never subscribed.



A lot of us play the new F1 games to the extreme and it his highly realistic as far as what would happen if you hit the back of another car and mechanical damage. Also you saying no one would play it is subjective seeing as a few people (myself as well) would play it. Seeing as you're new there are several threads that you might want to read through before you try to tackle this, we've all on both sides thought about it for an ocean full of seconds.



Not a biggie, why would you model an ICU, what does that have to do with racing, we're not asking for real life and everything else. By your view we could also look at it like this. I'm driving and I get a message from my pit crew, they tell me my virtual grand mother died. So from your logic their should be a funeral for me to attend after the race. See how asinine we can make things as you've done. The point that seems to roll on by you is that we're not asking for a video game reality with racing as the center piece. We're asking for a true sim racer not simcade. That is the true difference.



Haven't heard too much about this, except there is an issue with time changes that is quite visible if you've done a lot of racing like most of us had. There are black/purple spots that black out and skip in graphics, and there have been plenty of threads here to show it. There are many other issues that are much more massive than what you attempted.

If you don't like a realistic game that makes you practice over and over till you can drive the car without getting a dent on it, maybe you should go for arcade like game. Mario Kart Wii is quite popular.

Lol man completely agree. I was going to reply in a similar fashion. Some people are being extremely stupid when it comes to what desirable realism is. u had me laughing at the virtual grandmother thing.
Pointless things like Virtual diahrroea is not something sim fans want implemented.

 

[Olegonic]

I want damage to be always ON. Not this damage model we have now, another one, improved. Like in Race Driver:GRID. After playing a wile you find it more challenging and difficult to finish the race but it is still possible. It makes driving more accurate and kinda strategy - where to take over an opponent and how to do this avoiding contact

 

[mr_serious]

After playing a wile you find it more challenging and difficult to finish the race but it is still possible. It makes driving more accurate and kinda strategy - where to take over an opponent and how to do this avoiding contact

^ this is the art of racing, something GT5 has since 'redefined' according to the box cover

 

[PletdeKoe]

How much is to much?

Well basicly that's up to the players. Some will want much more realism, other will just want to play casual. I think it is impossible to create a high quality game like GT5 with an all-out customisation. PD have to choose what to focus on. It is a balance they will have to create between Playability vs Simulation. Seeing that GT is so popular and a Sony flagship Playability is a key factor. Simulation is what attracts people to the game, but the majority wins in wanting a enjoyable, playable game.

 

[leepangfu]

I'd really like more damage too. Even the risk of losing your car if it's completely destroyed. I think that will give a more personal touch to the cars. Maybe you'll feel gutted if you lose a car after 2000 kilometers driven. Should be in some kind of hardcore mode though. Imagine taking your 20 million credits historic racecar out for a spin in an online lobby and get smashed by some guy in a cheap Dodge RAM.