How much Power is too much? And what is the point?
- Thread starter hawkeye122
- 62 comments
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McLaren
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- 45,999
- Texas
Bugatti is pretty strict about what you can do the cars because ultimately, they are the ones who want to distance themselves if something goes wrong.
The guy on L4P who put aftermarket rims on his Veyron was watched very, very closely by Bugatti & was almost denied the option. They finally allowed it by telling him he'd have to have a custom set made specifically for the car as they did not want him putting some rubber band tire on there that Bugatti knew would not be safe at a high rate of speed.
Now, at one time, Hennessey did advertise a Veyron exhaust upgrade that guaranteed a 10% increase in power. However, it's been discontinued, & I'm sure it has to do with no customer wanting to take a risk with John on touching a Veyron, & esp. not Bugatti.
- 9,303
- Norwich,Norfolk
- GTP_DaxCobra
Depends on weight, torque, setup...
For example, my dads car is producing nearly 500BHP and it only weighs 1000kg. It's perfectly driveable at normal speeds, yet it does 0-60 in under 3.5 seconds.
I think the answer is when it becomes undriveable at normal speeds. Unless we are talking about Race Cars.
For example, my dads car is producing nearly 500BHP and it only weighs 1000kg. It's perfectly driveable at normal speeds, yet it does 0-60 in under 3.5 seconds.
I think the answer is when it becomes undriveable at normal speeds. Unless we are talking about Race Cars.
- 17,694
- United Kingdom
Too much power is when the rest of the car can't cope. There are plenty of RWYB meets at Santa Pod, which is only 25 mins away from me, so if I had 500+ bhp I could easily stretch the cars legs and I totally get the attraction, but if it couldn't do it without the diff exploding (for instance) then there isn't any point. I've got just under 200hp at the moment, and on my local roads it would be hard to use much more and still be anything like safe, but there are situations where I could easily use 500hp - it wouldn't be legal, but it would get used!
And I also disagree with the "it's just about bragging rights" aspect.. thats man-cow-poo, the chances are if you've 'tuned', or had a car 'tuned' to that level, then the car is your hobby, it's a project, and you're enthralled by every aspect of it - excessive power is just a by-product, and the act of doing it is gratification enough - not gloating about it.
And I also disagree with the "it's just about bragging rights" aspect.. thats man-cow-poo, the chances are if you've 'tuned', or had a car 'tuned' to that level, then the car is your hobby, it's a project, and you're enthralled by every aspect of it - excessive power is just a by-product, and the act of doing it is gratification enough - not gloating about it.
- 8,481
- P_Balance
Most people on here just see "numbers" and judge a car how fast it is with those, when in reality, any car over 500whp or so is enough to be scary to drive. The internet has simply skewed people's thought into thinking cars with 300-400whp can't be ridiculously fast.
My brother in law's Maxima has a turbo vq35 swap. It made 353whp and on 255 Dunlop Star Specs it can light them up in the first three gears just by rolling on the throttle. That is with an LSD as well, so it's not a one wheel peel. With 500whp or so it would probably be able to spin the tires in any gear at will. RWD can handle more power, but 1k is more than anyone will ever need on anything other than a drag strip.
My brother in law's Maxima has a turbo vq35 swap. It made 353whp and on 255 Dunlop Star Specs it can light them up in the first three gears just by rolling on the throttle. That is with an LSD as well, so it's not a one wheel peel. With 500whp or so it would probably be able to spin the tires in any gear at will. RWD can handle more power, but 1k is more than anyone will ever need on anything other than a drag strip.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Any car over 100 bhp can be scary on the racetrack, given the right driver. Just ask my wife why she doesn't like me working on the racetrack after we went for a spin in a puny 1.8 liter Focus.
How dangerous a car is to drive on the street at a certain power level depends on a lot of factors. I've driven 300-400 horsepower cars that were absolutely boring, and I've driven cars with less than half that power that were... well... terrifying... (2.0 Corolla. No rear bar. Fishtails galore on corner exits) all the more so because brakes and tires meant to rein in just a hundred or so ponies aren't often as good as brakes and tires built for high-horse applications.
I wouldn't mind a 1,000 horsepower front-wheel drive car. Would make for spectacular burn-outs... but not much else...
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In the end, e-penis and bragging rights aside, people do it just because. Once you're bitten by the bug, enough is not enough. I've ridden in machines with up to three times factory power, which don't have three times the factory grip or suspension. Some drivers just get turned on by that edgy feeling you get when you knock a car's delicately balanced performance envelope way off-kilter.
Just ask my wife why she doesn't like me working on the racetrack after we went for a spin in a puny 1.8 liter Focus.How dangerous a car is to drive on the street at a certain power level depends on a lot of factors. I've driven 300-400 horsepower cars that were absolutely boring, and I've driven cars with less than half that power that were... well... terrifying... (2.0 Corolla. No rear bar. Fishtails galore on corner exits) all the more so because brakes and tires meant to rein in just a hundred or so ponies aren't often as good as brakes and tires built for high-horse applications.
I wouldn't mind a 1,000 horsepower front-wheel drive car. Would make for spectacular burn-outs... but not much else...
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In the end, e-penis and bragging rights aside, people do it just because. Once you're bitten by the bug, enough is not enough. I've ridden in machines with up to three times factory power, which don't have three times the factory grip or suspension. Some drivers just get turned on by that edgy feeling you get when you knock a car's delicately balanced performance envelope way off-kilter.
- 1,701
- Johnstown PA
- SAVAGE_388_
Perfect Balance
Torque has a lot to do with the numbers game too. A 300 hp 3 liter m3 won't be as potent as say a 300 hp l98 camaro because the camaro has way more torque and thats what matters more in street driving, not max rpm power. But do agree that anything that can't get traction in third on dry pavement is a bit overkill for regularly driven street car, but it would be nice.
- 27,248
- United Kingdom
I'd prefer engine over chassis to engine over brakes...
- 774
- Misawa, Japan
- PinkRanger_DRLFT
- Jiu Driftsu
- 41,005
- 27,248
- United Kingdom
300 is certainly enough to get you up to illegal speeds pretty quickly these days. Most 300bhp road cars will do an easy 150mph, though as before, it's probably quite a nice amount for motorway cruising. Not necessary, as such, but enough to give you plenty of overtaking shove.
- 12,067
- Marin County
I'd rather have a very light car (<2500lbs) with strong power than a heavier car (>3000lbs) with absurd power. You can end up having two cars with a very similar power to weight ratio, say a 4,000lbs car with 800hp and a 2,000lbs car with 400hp and the lighter car will probably be much faster (at least until aero comes into the equation at high speed). Not only do you have to consider power to weight, but you have to consider power to traction. Assuming they are both rwd and not tubbed out drag cars (because drag cars on the street are stupid) the 800hp car will have considerable difficulty putting that power down through it's two rear tires. Meanwhile the lighter car's tires only have 400hp to deal with PLUS a lighter car to shove along. You see cars like the Ariel Atom and Caterham R500 explode off the line because there isn't really that much power, just incredibly low weight.
In the end:
Low weight > Huge Power
To that end, I'm trying to gather parts to do a 20b (N/A peripheral port) powered MX-5...
In the end:
Low weight > Huge Power
To that end, I'm trying to gather parts to do a 20b (N/A peripheral port) powered MX-5...
Maybe you need 300bhp in modern cars but in older lightweight cars 200bhp or less is plenty to get you into trouble. It's not really possible to put an exact figure for how much power is too much, because of too many variables, depending on who's driving the cars and what they want to do with the car, like trying to get fast lap times, drifting or drag racing.
- 27,248
- United Kingdom
Even less, really. A basic 1.6-engined Caterham with no more than 110-odd horsepower can do 60mph in somewhere between 5-6 seconds and do quite high corner speeds - enough to get someone into trouble if they made a mistake.
I agree though, there are plenty of factors which dictate "too much" power.
Including the era in which you live. In the 1980s the 1000bhp+ F1 cars were considered to have too much power in terms of safety, but now if you've got the dosh you can walk into a Bugatti showroom and drive out in a car with radio and aircon with that sort of power.
Or personal circumstances. I don't have a lot of money at the moment, so to me I'm looking for as much fun from a car as possible while spending as little as possible on fuel (a powerful car you can't afford to drive is no fun at all), so power isn't a big factor in the sort of cars I like. Give me a massive wadge of cash and I may take more of an interest in it.
- 24,172
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Yep I know exactly what you mean, I've had powerful cars and they were so expensive to run, I didn't drive them for fun as much as I drove the lower powered cars.
Another side to how fast the car can get up to dangerous speeds can be if it's a low power car, you might take more risks on corners so you won't have to build up speed again afterwards. So in that case too little power can be just as dangerous.
@the cracker, yes I think power to weight would make more sense, but you would have to ignore driver ability. Also it would change according to the weather, my current car has about 280-300bhp and weighs around 1130kg, it's no problem in the dry but on some roads in the wet, it can spin wheels in fourth gear at 100mph just from pressing the throttle too hard and if I change aggressively into fifth, or kick the clutch in fifth I get the same thing.
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In my part of the World anyone having a 1000BHP car would be a out of his/her mind mad idiot. Since it snows pretty much 4-6 months a year and the roads are quite twisty and narrow with large holes here and there a simple mistake would mean that you end up in a ditch or field with such a car. I even sometimes struggle with my 100bhp Toyota to get traction in the winter. That said, most people with sportier cars put them in the garage for the winter and use something more civilized.
- 103
- motorcitydriver
Well i thought I would way in on this, two of my cars have stupid horsepower, my daily driver CTS-V (556hp) and a toy, Shelby Mustang (725hp). We've gotten back to the horsepower wars of the days of old be it Ford vs Chevy, Ferrari vs Lamborghini. But do I need 556hp to drive to work no, but we do it because we can, would I do it again no, because I have that other monster with 725hp that has a hard time getting pretty much any of it to the road, what it is, that it's one of a very few made that year so you are not going to see one everyday so to me that's the draw to it.
McLaren
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- 45,999
- Texas
That will only work to a certain horsepower figure & highly depends on the cars involved. 300-400Hp Miatas are fast, but they are no match for bigger cars like the Corvettes, Vipers, Supras, & GT-Rs once they start outputting over 700hp. At that point, the Miata can only be built to so much power while the latter has the option to go as far as to double 700whp.
The reason those Miatas & lightweight cars lose so quickly is because once you're running that much power in those cars, speeds like 120Mph & above come up real, real fast, which means speeds those cars start becoming unsafe at. Meanwhile, those 3,000+lbs cars still remain stable & accelerating up to 180Mph+.
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Joey D
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- 47,645
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
I think Pirelli put it best with their slogan, "Power is nothing without control."
And I agreed with PB, the Internet has created this belief that all cars now need to have huge horsepower number to mean anything. I think the '12 Mustang V6 is a perfect example of this. People will babble on about how it has no performance or was only built for girls, truth be told this people are idiots. The V6 Mustang has 300hp, a 0-60 between 5.0-5.5 sec. depending on the source, and a 1/4 mile time in the high 13's. I mean the 5.0 Mustang has a 0-60 of around 4.5 sec and a quarter mile in the low 13's. It's not that much of a staggering different all thing considered.
And I agreed with PB, the Internet has created this belief that all cars now need to have huge horsepower number to mean anything. I think the '12 Mustang V6 is a perfect example of this. People will babble on about how it has no performance or was only built for girls, truth be told this people are idiots. The V6 Mustang has 300hp, a 0-60 between 5.0-5.5 sec. depending on the source, and a 1/4 mile time in the high 13's. I mean the 5.0 Mustang has a 0-60 of around 4.5 sec and a quarter mile in the low 13's. It's not that much of a staggering different all thing considered.
Cano
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- 20,758
- Cephiro
I believe that looking for any sense to a high-hp car is absolutely pointless beause they have none. But that does not mean they are any less fun. Yes you cannot use them in a track and low weight is always better and you don't need 1000 wheel and what not, but you cannot deny the sheer adrenaline rush when you are driving a very powerful car. That is where their fun lies. And yes you can take them to a dragstrip and you will still have a lot of fun. That is what cars are about, having fun. High-powered cars offer different thrills than driving a car around a circuit, rock-crawiling in a Jeep or rallying in the mud, but the goal of those who build them is the very same: to have fun with ther cars. And yes, it is cool driving around or even riding shotgun in a car that will absolutely smash you into the seat in a split second and wont let you go unless the gas pedal takes a rest. It's an awesome feeling. Try it if you haven't.
McLaren
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- 45,999
- Texas
You're right. Those people are idiots, because real car enthusiasts will the see the bargain that is 300Hp for just $22,000, regardless of the engine. There's no denying most cars in that price range are almost 100Hp down from that.
But, people didn't like the V6 Mustangs before because they were slow, and they were "girl's" cars. 210Hp in a Mustang was almost shameful a couple years ago when folks realize the Japanese cars were making much better use of 200Hp.
The only thing the internet has done though, is allowed people to come onto the web to show off their 200-400Hp, 13-14 sec.+ cars & claim that they are fast and they can amazingly beat 80% of cars on the road. That's not a hard accomplishment. But if that's "fast", what's a 458? Super fast? A Veyron? Ludicrous? Now picture a basic looking Supra/Gallardo that's even faster than that. How do you describe that if "fast" is a car that can 0-60 in 5 seconds?
It's like how Louis CK condemns those who overuse the term, "amazing" & asks what they would consider if Jesus came back since they used the term, "amazing" on something silly.
- 1,701
- Johnstown PA
- SAVAGE_388_
McLaren
I think the point of buying a mustang or camaro with the v8 is all about the American muscle experience not just the speed. The v6 does perform well but it lacks things that complete the experience like the sound and the torque that only a v8 can give. People do tend to be excessively harsh on the new v6 cars myself included because of stereotypes of the old "lumps" and the relatively cheap v8 option that offers so much more.
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