How should DLC be handled for GT7?

[MIE1992]

Paid add-on content has been a part of GT since GT5, the first game to be capable of receiving DLC. Let's recap:

-GT5 had exclusive cars and tracks, such as the Lamborghini Aventador.

-GT6 allowed you to buy credits.

-GT Sport allowed you to directly buy cars with real money, but you could still buy them with credits earned in-game, and all tracks were free. There was also the Lewis Hamilton Challenge, which to be fair, did feature a car that was exclusive to the DLC.

I think GT5 was the worst way to go about it, but we should also recall that GT5 did have a small amount of free add-on content, plus GT6 had a relatively large amount of free DLC support, even if we exclude the various VGTs. I think we'll continue to see free DLC in GT7 by way of additional VGT models, but I also wonder what sort of paid options we'll have. I personally hope that it'll be either the same or similar to GT6/Sport, where there was a minimal amount of content that was locked behind paywalls. I just hope the process to obtain credits to buy these cars has the potential to be relatively fun, rather than grinding the same single event over and over again, like how I hear that running a KTM X-Bow at the Blue Moon Bay round of the Premium Sports Lounge is ideal when it comes to GT Sport.

Indeed, I think with all the work that goes into modeling a car/track, let alone by PD, it'd be a waste of effort on their part just to lock that sort of content behind paid DLC. One idea I had was some sort of racing pass/license you could buy for each season of a championship, whether it's the FIAGTCs or something else, and this could possibly contribute to a prize pool to some extent, but I also think this whole thing would involve too much red tape and paperwork on PD's part. I generally have a feeling that GT7 could very well do something different yet again for DLC, but it would seem that between GT6 and GT Sport's way of doing DLC, PD has learned their lesson to not leave content entirely locked behind paid DLC.

I'd also be totally down for more paid DLC in the vein of the Lewis Hamilton Challenge, albeit I'd hope that it'd be a bit easier to get the best marks, haha! I got all-golds plus a diamond or two, and I don't see myself getting all diamonds at all. But that's the sort of thing I'd gladly take as paid DLC - more singleplayer content, possibly with exclusive cars that aren't even used in Sport Mode anyway - especially if said cars are in Gr.X. Maybe we could see a Nike-themed DLC challenge, with the prize car being the return of the Nike One 2022.

 

[RacingFan1]

No paid DLC at all, obviously. Paid DLC are a cancer of the gaming world.

 

[MIE1992]

No paid DLC at all, obviously. Paid DLC are a cancer of the gaming world.

Even if there wasn't any option to buy even content you could obtain in-game, that'd be a first for a GT game that'd otherwise be technically capable of doing DLC. Not to mention that I'm pretty sure paid DLC helps to recoup development costs, which I can only imagine for a GT game. I really do think paid DLC can be done well, especially if it's in the vein of GT Sport's Lewis Hamilton Challenge - albeit maybe with the difficulty tweaked down just a bit.

 

[Dave A]

No paid DLC at all, obviously. Paid DLC are a cancer of the gaming world.

I don't agree with this entirely, however since paid DLC has become a norm there have been some blatantly exploitative tactics used by some developers. Excluding already fully developed content from launch just to make them part of a day 1 or later DLC pack for example, and that's stuff that I'm definitely not a fan of at all. There have also been some ludicrously overpriced DLC packs released for certain games as well.

However on the flip side, the amount of free DLC we got with GT Sport was huge and I don't expect those levels of generosity with GT7, nor do I think it would be fair for PD to continue developeing assets and content post launch to that scale and not receive anything back for it. So you need a middle ground, you want a game to be released without content and feataures being purposely held back for DLC (by held back I mean developed in time but not included at launch) but then reasonably priced DLC prost launch and ifthat can be sprinkled with the odd bit of free DLC then that's great.

While as a consumer I'd be overjoyed to get a couple of hundered cars added as free DLC and it'd be perfect to not have to pay a penny more than the initialgames purchase, I don't think it's feasble to keep doing that nor do I think it's unfair for DLC to be charged in a number of circumstances. It just has be reasonably priced for what you get and be content that was not fully developed in time for the game going gold.

 

[05XR8]

I think it should be handled very carefully.

 

[GBalao888]

I think it should stick to the GT Sport formula - where there should be consistent updates with new cars and tracks at no additional cost.

The paid stuff should be for whatever is absolutely premium or exclusive, like the Lewis Hamilton Time Trial Challenge.

 

[Samus]

I think it should stick to the GT Sport formula - where there should be consistent updates with new cars and tracks at no additional cost.

The paid stuff should be for whatever is absolutely premium or exclusive, like the Lewis Hamilton Time Trial Challenge.

Really? The premium content that added no new content to the game? The premium content you could do yourself without buying it? Strongly disagree on stuff like that being paid for.

Paying for new cars is totally reasonable as long as they truly are new and were made after the game released.

 

[MroczMR]

I think GT Sport way is the best.

Free updates with possibility to buy cars for real money to make profit for PD.

 

[MIE1992]

I think GT Sport way is the best.

Free updates with possibility to buy cars for real money to make profit for PD.

Agreed, but I'd also be down for more singleplayer DLC challenges, like the Lewis Hamilton Challenge DLC for GT Sport, though I'd greatly appreciate it if the difficulty was tuned down a bit, haha! (I have all golds and a few diamonds, but I definitely don't see myself getting all-diamonds!) I think there are a lot of possibilities that could be in a similar vein to this. Perhaps some events from prior games, like the ones revolving around Senna or the Goodwood Hillclimb could be paid DLC. I wouldn't mind, as long as there aren't any truly exclusive cars/tracks. (I think the Mercedes-Benz VGT LH44 Edition was pushing it, personally, and I'd prefer it to be a bit easier to obtain if it returns in GT7.)

Generally, I don't foresee PD (nor the contractors it outsources to) spending a ton of time modeling a track/vehicle just to make it exclusive to DLC, with their first attempt at DLC for GT5 notwithstanding. I would also imagine this applying to new modes, like how the Sierra Time Rally was free for GT6. So I wonder what sort of singleplayer DLC could be for GT7? There could be more than just time trials like we saw with the Lewis Hamilton Challenge - there could be exclusive singleplayer races, as well. So for example, Red Bull could be its own brand in Brand Central, and that'd be where you could buy the various Red Bull cars without buying any DLC, but there could be manufacturer events under Red Bull that could be exclusive to DLC.

Alternatively, I absolutely would be down for purely aesthetic DLC, such as various skins modeled on those from the FIAGTCs. The national skins for the Red Bull X2019 Competition and the Toyota GR Supra could be available without DLC, but other cars used in the FIAGTCs - such as the national skins for the Pagani Zonda R, or that NSX Gr.3 with the Michelin-themed skin - could be available as paid DLC. We could even include other skins, such as making the 15th anniversary skins from GT6, or prototype/testing liveries.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

...Alternatively, I absolutely would be down for purely aesthetic DLC, such as various skins modeled on those from the FIAGTCs....

I don't quite get how there could be paid liveries and a free livery editor...

I don't like to think of how much additional money I'd be willing to spend on GT7 besides buying a whole PS5 for it.
I've been very pleased with GT Sport's free content, but, if Gran Turismo wants to join Pokemon and Call of Duty in the hall of 'consistent multimillion sellers that really, desperately need more money' then so be it. I quite enjoyed the contents of the season passes of DriveClub and Ride 3 (both only when heavily discounted), so more events and cars would be what I'd expect.

...Maybe we could see a Nike-themed DLC challenge, with the prize car being the return of the Nike One 2022...

If my favourite shoe car returns after being away for two whole console generations, and it's locked behind a paywall...

 

[NickXP]

I think you guys are forgetting something important:


Game prices especially for Sony exclusive games have recently gone up by 10€/$. Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart, Returnal and Demon's Souls all cost 79,99€. According to Jim Ryan (PlayStation CEO), games are getting more expensive to make so the price increase is fair. I believe GT7 will also cost 79,99€ or 10€ more than GT SPORT. For this reason I don't think PD will add paid content to GT7.

 

[Samus]

I think you guys are forgetting something important:


Game prices especially for Sony exclusive games have recently gone up by 10€/$. Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart, Returnal and Demon's Souls all cost 79,99€. According to Jim Ryan (PlayStation CEO), games are getting more expensive to make so the price increase is fair. I believe GT7 will also cost 79,99€ or 10€ more than GT SPORT. For this reason I don't think PD will add paid content to GT7.

By that logic nobody will add paid content but we know they will. Money is good. More money is better.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I think there'll be free content updates just like GT6 and GT Sport but they'll be reduced in frequency to exist alongside DLC. Most of the free content updates contained returning cars and tracks that likely wouldn't have cost much in terms of licencing fees; they were probably able to get away with it without losing massive sums of money. If they want to add more modern vehicles, they'd need to offset the cost by offering them as DLC. Cars from brands such as Porsche, Mazda, Nissan and Toyota would probably come for free but I don't know. I'm just making an educated guess.

 

[XSquareStickIt]

I'm probably in the minority in this, but I'd happily pay for DLC for GT7.

Yes, DLC can be, and most often is, exploitive in the gaming world. However, I think PD has proven themselves to not be predatory with their DLC since GT5. There's no loot box with a 5% chance of getting an exclusive Stage 5 Turbo or things of that sort. And the free updates in GT Sport are all of consistently high quality. Heck, I feel guilty receiving such work for free.

The reason I want to pay for DLC in GT7 is not only because of trust in PD that they've built over the last ten years, but also because the fanbase (us) keep demanding more and more from them, and with the extra revenue of DLC, I'm hoping it can allow PD to bring us more content as well. It's a long stretch, but it might also incentivise PD to actually listen to its fanbase for once.

I just hope PD knows well enough to avoid microtransaction pitfalls that plague other games like GTA V.

 

[05XR8]

However we got the 12 car packs in the early stages of GT Sport, I don't know if that'll happen in GT7.
I'm not hip to all the ray tracing talk, but putting that aside, if we got 400 cars(we're pretty close in GTS) and all current tracks plus Trial Mountain, paying for three or four cars, due to COVID slowdown, might run many the wrong way.

The cars would have to be brand spanking new to the series. Maybe include a new track?
If they were legacy cars like: Vector W8, Renault Espace, HKS Skyline drag car, I think those are worth a price tag.
Thing is, once again, when the servers shut down, if players haven't bought the DLC, they'd not have those cars and maybe tracks to use. Maybe even a whole series, say, FormulaE.

 

[Imari]

I would prefer to see major DLC like the Forza Horizon Blizzard Mountain or Storm Island packs, where it's in essence a whole new mini-version of the game to explore but with a new and fresh flavour. Those are some of the best racing DLC I've ever played and I got every penny's worth and then some out of them.

 

[Razamataz]

Controversial but give me a season pass for GBP25.00 / USD30.00 that lasts a year and consistently delivers. That ways there's a financial obligation on the developer's part to satisfy this requirement. For instance we'd receive a new track per month complete with 10 new cars. Every time, without fail.

Bought the Destiny 2 season pass and personally I think it's great value for money with hours and hours of added content. Bear in mind Bungie's yearly expansions are already pretty cheap. I've really gotten used to the Games As A Service model and find it expands the lifespan of a game quite significantly.

Expecting significant amounts of content for free in what I expect to be a feature complete game in GT7 (unlike GT Sport) is naive. Do we expect developers to work for nothing? We need to be realistic.

 

[Tornado]

If they actually provide meaningful content as DLC (like most of GT5's was) and implement it in a way that isn't completely stupid (which they only sorta did in GT5, but based on how dyslexic GT5 was in general they can get a pass), they can provide as much paid DLC as they want. I'm sure they'd sell oodles of it. Entire expansion packs, like those Forza gets, would be great to see. Season Passes where you get set amounts of content for a year or whatever after launch, would be great to see (though I've no belief PD could actually do). But all told, let's wait to see the state the game actually releases in first. I'm not going to breathlessly applaud them for dumping a bunch of improvements into games that never should have released in the state they were in in the first place; nor am I going to say how great it is that they've loaded up games lacking content with new content for "free" while just sweeping under the rug that they've had pay to win mechanics in the series in some or or another for over a decade to pay for it.

I just hope PD knows well enough to avoid microtransaction pitfalls that plague other games like GTA V.

Gran Turismo games have had microtransactions exactly like GTA V since before GTA V actually had them; and arguably since well before GTA V even released depending on your view of the content of the various "premium" editions of GT5 and what it meant for the game design.

 

[PJTierney]

Tracks should be free in my opinion as a healthy multiplayer community relies on a wide track selection in the long term.

As for the rest, I like when DLC gives you something meaningful to “do” and is not simply a bunch of cars. The Forza Horizon 4 expansions are a good example, with their mini career mode, likewise the Colin McRae “story mode” in DiRT Rally 2.0.

 

[Dave A]

Tracks should be free in my opinion as a healthy multiplayer community relies on a wide track selection in the long term.

As for the rest, I like when DLC gives you something meaningful to “do” and is not simply a bunch of cars. The Forza Horizon 4 expansions are a good example, with their mini career mode, likewise the Colin McRae “story mode” in DiRT Rally 2.0.

Tracks don't have t be free, a common model for multiplayer is that only the host has to own the DLC and everyone else can use it during that race/round. It could cause issues with officially hosted races on Sony/PD servers, but theres no reason they couldn't unlock the content for those either. It'd meanpeople who don't have the DLC can use it when they have to in order to take part but not otherwise.

The Horizon 4 expansions with extra careers and missions were good, I'd like any GT7 DLC to include new events challenges that expand the game as well as just dishing out new cars and racks.

 

[Tornado]

Tracks don't have t be free, a common model for multiplayer is that only the host has to own the DLC and everyone else can use it during that race/round. It could cause issues with officially hosted races on Sony/PD servers, but theres no reason they couldn't unlock the content for those either. It'd meanpeople who don't have the DLC can use it when they have to in order to take part but not otherwise.

Which PD have experience with, since that's what they initially did with GT5's track DLC and the online special events that they used them with...






Then like 2 month after Spec 2.0 released they took the option away so the only way people could race on a track is if everyone in the lobby had bought it, killing any interest in using those tracks online overnight and making it so when Motegi was added as DLC no one cared whatsoever since there was virtually nothing to do with it in the game.

 

[XSquareStickIt]

Gran Turismo games have had microtransactions exactly like GTA V since before GTA V actually had them; and arguably since well before GTA V even released depending on your view of the content of the various "premium" editions of GT5 and what it meant for the game design.

This is exactly what I mean when I said that I hope Gran Turismo doesn't fall into the same DLC pitfalls like GTA V if they do choose to go down the path of microtransactions. I think GTA Online is so successful at generating revenue that Rockstar would rather just keep making Online content instead of a GTA VI. Most of the missions in Online involves mundane travel halfway across the map, and it's a grind fest as far as cash is concerned, both of which I've no doubt is to incentivise players to buy Shark Cards.

With how flawed PD's games tend to be, I think they need to be extremely careful with what they choose to charge the player base for. Taking Gran Turismo Sport as an example, offering an option to buy credits with real money, given the game's (unintentionally?) spiteful credits economy can easily be seen as exploitive, even if PD didn't have the intention of being predatory, seeing as they don't let us buy the 20 million credit unicorn cars with real money. Likewise, if they offered us a 0-400m acceleration test or a top speed test as paid DLC, I think many would be up in arms about it because we used to have that in GT2 for free, and it would feel like the acceleration tests are deliberately omitted from the base game to be paid DLC, which would feel predatory.

I think you hit the nail on the head on this one: The base game needs to be comprehensive, complete, and satisfactory for any paid DLC to be "ethical", for the lack of a better term. If released in a barebones, broken, barely functional state like Sport, DLC would vilify PD and Sony for years to come.

Lastly, I think that anything competitive added to the game post launch needs to be free, such that there's no "pay to win" or even "pay to participate" agenda going on. Tracks and cars come to mind, especially Gr. 4, 3, 2, and 1 cars, as those are most often used in Sport mode. Failing this, I think a great alternative would be to allow players without the DLC to use a "Provided Car" just like Daily Race A, or be loaned/ sponsored the car months in advance much like signing a contract with a Manufacturer, such that they can use it in practice lobbies and design liveries on it, with the car disappearing from their garage the moment the race is over. I think this is a great way for people to test the cars and play with them, so that they can make an informed buying decision as to whether the car is worth paying real money for.

tl;dr: I'd happily pay for DLC in GT7, but it needs to be handled very, very carefully.