How To Completely Destory an Exotic Car Marque, E55's Latest Book.

[E55Power]

Maserati. Alfa. What the **** is going on?

I’ve now heard from multiple very reliable sources that Maserati is building an A6 4.2/545/E500 size car. The “Baby Quattroporte”, as some say. Will share a platform with the Alfa 159, and will use GM sourced 4.6L V8. Did you hear that? 4.6L GM V8? So, that means no more high-revving godly-sounding Italian V8’s.

So, let’s start with one question. Why do people buy Maseratis?
Well, there are several reason, but the biggest ones are these.
-Brand Name & Image.
-Exotic sound, handling, and look.
-Exclusive/limited production
-It is, a “Practical Ferrari”.

Brand Name & Image. Well guess what, folks, if Maserati makes a mass produced $55k GM powered sedan, this is going down the drain. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have a Ferrari-Maserati, than a GM-Maserati.

Exotic Sound, handling, and Look. I can’t speak for the looks yet, but, I’m sure they’ll be conservative. The amazing sounding 7500rpm redline V8 is gone. We get a boring, quiet GM V8. And handling? Please, I’m sure it’ll handle just like an E500.

Exclusive/Limited Production. Ha! When Maserati makes this new 159/Mini Quattroporte, they’ll be pumping out ATLEAST 10,000 a year, I’d put my money on 20,000. So, I guess seeing 20 of them everyday on the way to store makes it a bit less exclusive, eh? Everyone and their dog will have one. (Heard of the Hummer H2?)

It is a “Practical Ferrari”. Not anymore! It’s just an overpriced mid-luxury sedan! Boring! So much for that exotic idea.

Now here’s two of the biggest factors needed for a mass market car like an A6 to survive. Reliability and Ease of Ownership.

Reliability. Chances are, it will be pretty reliable (maybe not up to par with the Audi, BMW, though). However, even the current Maserati is pretty reliable, but it’s one of the biggest factors turning prospective buyers away. People remember Maseratis of the early 90’s, and 80’s, and just cringe at the though. Repair prices through the roof, and parts that were seemingly superglued together. That car had HORRIBLE reliability, and prospective buyers don’t want to take that kind of risk.

Ease of Ownership. Give me a break! Unless you live in SoCal, you’re most likely at least 100 miles from a dealer. People can deal with that on a niche market $100k exotic car, but they can’t on an everyday midsize sedan. The Dealer network could triple, and it’d still be too small!

So it makes you think, Why On Earth would ANYONE take the slower, harder to service, more expensive, seemingly less reliable Maserati over an incredible A6/545/Q45/E500, etc.

Doug, I know you see the word Maserati and want to start *****ing, please, please refrain.

 

[xcsti]

One of your reasons that it won't sell is that it wouldn't be exclusive because it would sell?

Huh?

Personally I would hate to see this happen, though now that gm has pulled out of fiat it seems less likely.

 

[E55Power]

seven million? Puhleese. MB imports ATLEASAT 5 times as many CLK55's as Maser does coupes.

THESE ARE FACTS. PRODUCTION NUMBERS. YOU CANT DISPUTE THEM, DOUG.

I saw 3 CLK55's today. One was driven by my best friend, a 16 year old girl.
the two others were that artic silver color, both driven by women in the carpool line. I followed one of them out on the way home from school, she was driving 35 in the 55, talking on her cell phone.

 

[E55Power]

Also, Doug --- on CSource, The CGT isn't techinically a convertible, technically it's has a targa, or "sport" roof, just like the MC12.

 

[JCE]

I saw 3 CLK55's today. One was driven by my best friend, a 16 year old girl.

[rant]
Offtopic: WTF... Parents that buy these expensive cars for CHILDRED make me sick. I don't care how much money I make my kids are getting Nissan Sentras, Ford Focus, VW Golfs, or something like this. Everytime I see a rich kid drving around in a car that costs more than $30k paid for with mommy's or daddy's money I just want to vomit.

[/rant]
Please resume your regularly scheduled topic.
[/resume topic]

 

[svtsnake]

i know its kind of sad, some people WORK THERE ASSES OFF, and they still cant afford a 50k+ car.

and there is nothing wrong with a 4.6 v8, ford's been using it for over a decade.

 

[Ev0]

Firstly, the thought of a GM V8 in a Maserati is scaring the living crap out of me. Don't get me wrong, GM builds a kickass V8, but it would be a terrible move to put it into a Maserati. If I could afford a Maserati, the thing I would probably look forward to the most is the exhaust note. Ever heard the noise a Quattroporte makes? It is abolutely extraordinary. A GM V8 will not be able to produce anything like the brilliant tones produced by a true Italian V8.

Also, I think moving Maserati down a few price brackets into, say, Porsche territory is a good idea. The Ferrari-Maserati group has two brands competing in similar price brackets (and by similar price brackets I mean the 'arm and a leg' bracket and the 'just your leg' bracket). It makes more sense to bring Maserati down to make them more accessible so they can produce a higher volume of sales for the group as a whole. They already have Ferrari to compete in the ultra high end segment. But, if Maserati wants to still appeal to buyers, they have to stay true to what makes them desireable in the first place. Enthusiasts love Ferraris and Maseratis because they have a soul that no other brand can replicate. And sourcing a GM V8 murders this soul...

Secondly, going off topic, I despise people who buy really expensive cars for their kids. Not only is it moronic since they will never truly appreciate a good car later, but most expensive cars have well over 250hp, which is a lot of power even for many experienced drivers, and is enormous for a 16 year old girl who just barely passed her driving exam. I frankly think anyone under 18 shouldn't be allowed to drive anything with over 250hp, it's just way too much power for a novice driver.

I hear that Ford is really getting scared of the Maserati Coupe cutting into Mustang sales.

*Insert ROTFL smiley here*

 

[Duke]

[rant]
Offtopic: WTF... Parents that buy these expensive cars for CHILDRED make me sick. I don't care how much money I make my kids are getting Nissan Sentras, Ford Focus, VW Golfs, or something like this. Everytime I see a rich kid drving around in a car that costs more than $30k paid for with mommy's or daddy's money I just want to vomit.

[/rant]
Please resume your regularly scheduled topic.
[/resume topic]

You know, I definitely agree with this. I'm also a regular at TSXClub.com, and I never cease to be amazed at the number of under-25-year-old TSX owners that are there, or even under 20. A huge number of them also cruise through saying they're car shopping among high-$20k-low-$30k cars. I mean, I'm graduate-school-educated, and I've never been without a professional job. Yet I was 40 before I could even begin to think about considering a car like the TSX - and it's not even that nice!

Now, on the regularly scheduled topic: E55, I assume you're aware that there is at least a 40-year history of Italian cars using American-sourced engines, right? From the Facel Vega through the Pantera and the DeTomaso Mangusta, American V8s supplied the power.

 

[Gil]

Maserati. Alfa. What the **** is going on?

I’ve now heard from multiple very reliable sources that Maserati is building an A6 4.2/545/E500 size car. The “Baby Quattroporte”, as some say. Will share a platform with the Alfa 159, and will use GM sourced 4.6L V8. Did you hear that? 4.6L GM V8? So, that means no more high-revving godly-sounding Italian V8’s.

So, let’s start with one question. Why do people buy Maseratis?
Well, there are several reason, but the biggest ones are these.
-Brand Name & Image.
-Exotic sound, handling, and look.
-Exclusive/limited production
-It is, a “Practical Ferrari”.

Brand Name & Image. Well guess what, folks, if Maserati makes a mass produced $55k GM powered sedan, this is going down the drain. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have a Ferrari-Maserati, than a GM-Maserati.

Exotic Sound, handling, and Look. I can’t speak for the looks yet, but, I’m sure they’ll be conservative. The amazing sounding 7500rpm redline V8 is gone. We get a boring, quiet GM V8. And handling? Please, I’m sure it’ll handle just like an E500.

Exclusive/Limited Production. Ha! When Maserati makes this new 159/Mini Quattroporte, they’ll be pumping out ATLEAST 10,000 a year, I’d put my money on 20,000. So, I guess seeing 20 of them everyday on the way to store makes it a bit less exclusive, eh? Everyone and their dog will have one. (Heard of the Hummer H2?)

It is a “Practical Ferrari”. Not anymore! It’s just an overpriced mid-luxury sedan! Boring! So much for that exotic idea.

Now here’s two of the biggest factors needed for a mass market car like an A6 to survive. Reliability and Ease of Ownership.

Reliability. Chances are, it will be pretty reliable (maybe not up to par with the Audi, BMW, though). However, even the current Maserati is pretty reliable, but it’s one of the biggest factors turning prospective buyers away. People remember Maseratis of the early 90’s, and 80’s, and just cringe at the though. Repair prices through the roof, and parts that were seemingly superglued together. That car had HORRIBLE reliability, and prospective buyers don’t want to take that kind of risk.

Ease of Ownership. Give me a break! Unless you live in SoCal, you’re most likely at least 100 miles from a dealer. People can deal with that on a niche market $100k exotic car, but they can’t on an everyday midsize sedan. The Dealer network could triple, and it’d still be too small!

So it makes you think, Why On Earth would ANYONE take the slower, harder to service, more expensive, seemingly less reliable Maserati over an incredible A6/545/Q45/E500, etc.

Doug, I know you see the word Maserati and want to start *****ing, please, please refrain.

*cough*
I guess you don't remember the Chrysler/Maserati LeBaron looking thing from the 1980's.
*cough*

Maseratis may be "exotic", but they have collaborated with at least one "middle of the road" American auto-maker. So, you're a little too late to be offended.

As for the slower, harder to service, more expensive Maser...
In the '80's you will note that a GMC Cyclone would beat a Ferrari 308 in the quarter mile? So why would anyone want a Ferrari over a cheaper, easy to service, but totally impractical truck thingie?

 

[Layla's Keeper]

Do you folks know how many times Maserati has circled the drain?

They're perennially on the brink of total annihilation. The last time they were a success, Lamborghini was building front engine cars.

Sheesh, anyone remember the days of the Bora/Merak and the Citroen patnership?

 

[JCE]

You know, I definitely agree with this. I'm also a regular at TSXClub.com, and I never cease to be amazed at the number of under-25-year-old TSX owners that are there, or even under 20. A huge number of them also cruise through saying they're car shopping among high-$20k-low-$30k cars. I mean, I'm graduate-school-educated, and I've never been without a professional job. Yet I was 40 before I could even begin to think about considering a car like the TSX - and it's not even that nice!

Don't know where you live, but I once lived in a town in the north part of Texas USA called Plano...where there is the most excessive amount of teenagers and young people in general driving arond in BMWs, Mercs, TSXs, S2000s (new ones), GTOs, Mustang Cobras, Lancer EVOs, WRX STis, and other above $30k new or performance cars. This is rediculous...and I'm not even counting the modded up cars also using mommy's and daddy's money. Imagine a fully tuned WS6 Trans-Am being driven by a 17 year old kid...yea that's a fatal accident just waiting to happen. Not only do teenagers do not have the experience handling cars in general but they do not have the maturity or common sense yet in thier STILL FORMING brains to drive such higher performance machines. In Plano TX if you were a 16 year old girl that didn't have a cute Mustang GT, Merc SLK, or 3-series BMW convertable you were not "cool". My younger cousin who went to Plano's high school system herself had a BMW 3-series her father bought her...I still think that's rediculous. I am NOT saying parents can't buy thier kids whatever they want--I AM saying however that they should use common sense and good parenting skills and get them a "starter" car. This is the reason why we should get all those Japanese and European "super mini's" is for the teenagers. It should be a requirement that no child under 18 should be allowed to drive a vehicle with more than 150bhp and or 4 cylinders. Bah, I better stop before I hijack this thread. Maybe someone should start a new one.

 

[1X83Z]

..

 

[svtsnake]

Lighten up and realize a) Maseratis really aren't anything special and b) you yourself aren't Maserati.

+1
masers will NEVER be more special than Ferraris, thats just a FACT.

ahahaha
way to tell it to a spoiled kid that brags about what mommie and daddy have.

 

[PS]

What car(s) do you drive anyway, Doug?

 

[xcsti]

This is a comment on the kids with fast cars part, not the masarati part.

My dad told me a story once. Back when he was a teenager there was a kid in his area whose grandpa had bought him a new gto (new at the time). The kid would race it and managed to wrap it around a tree, ending his life. The grandpa took the wrecked car and set it on the front of his lawn, as a sort of reminder to othere people how easy it is to make such a mistake.

 

[PS]

+1
masers will NEVER be more special than Ferraris, thats just a FACT.

ahahaha
way to tell it to a spoiled kid that brags about what mommie and daddy have.

I'm pretty sure Doug didn't have a mommy and daddy that bought him nice cars, he worked for that. Plus he's a "trend researcher" for Nissan and is thus required to know a crapload about cars.

 

[PS]

Just out of curiosity, are you considering getting the whole Kleemann kit? They do nice work with Mercedes'.

And are you keeping the Typhoon? . . .I would. . .

 

[xcsti]

I think that's an urban legend.

Yeah probably, he probably just remembers someone telling him the story and later assumed he had some relation to it (location).

 

[Joey D]

Agreed on the Maserati's. I see them everywhere around the Detroit area, more specifically in the area I live which is the the richest county in the United States I believe. Seeing something like a Maserati anything is as about as common as seeing an Audi A8, they are everywhere driving by toolish yuppies that can't get enough Starbucks.

So what if they are using a GM engine, GM builds quality engines when it comes to V8's.

I love how you say Maserati and reliable in the same sentence. How many miles do you think Maserati owners put on their cars every year? I would wager a few thousand since you would not drive them in the winter...they would suck about as my truck does in the snow. So you have 5-6 months that you can drive the car in Michigan. Sure it doesn't snow 6 months, but I wouldn't take it out in the rain either.

And I love how you like to try to start stuff with M5, as far as I'm concerned he is the most knowledgable out of any of us on the board when it comes to cars in America. Plus its very childish to insult him when he tells you something that's fairly factual.

In the '80's you will note that a GMC Cyclone would beat a Ferrari 308 in the quarter mile? So why would anyone want a Ferrari over a cheaper, easy to service, but totally impractical truck thingie?

Cyclone . Syclone . Sorry I'm a nerd. But yes it was mighty surprising to see a S-15/Jimmy blow the doors off a 100k car.

I saw 3 CLK55's today. One was driven by my best friend, a 16 year old girl.

20 bucks says she is a superfisical b****. I've been around girls who drive nice cars, they treat them just the same as a Grand Am, they put frilly lays around the mirrors and blast Kelly Clarkston throug the premium sound system. Not to mention they are uber superfisical. It makes me laugh since they won't ever have the concept of money...ever. And did I mention it makes the superfisical .

**BTW Doug you are still a bastard for owning a Typhoon and I still want pictures DAMNIT .

 

[Crash]

On Maserati, can anyone think of a four-door Maserati sold in the United States before the new Quattroporte?

Sorry to hijack the thread, but actually, I've seen one old Maserati Quattroporte before.

It should be a requirement that no child under 18 should be allowed to drive a vehicle with more than 150bhp and or 4 cylinders.

That should be based on car type. I for one am under 18, drives a 160something horsepower V6 engined minivan. And trust me, it's hardly sporty, fast, or really an accident waiting to happen.

Back onto topic: I don't know if I'm the exception here, but I rarely see Maseratis around here, I actually see Ferraris more often, and I do live in one of the wealthier suburbs of Seattle.

I do see quite a lot of AMG cars around there though.

 

[Driftster]

Can someone tell me honestly.
How long has it been since Maserati has developed something original?

 

[TheCracker]

Now, on the regularly scheduled topic: E55, I assume you're aware that there is at least a 40-year history of Italian cars using American-sourced engines, right? From the Facel Vega through the Pantera and the DeTomaso Mangusta, American V8s supplied the power.

Just to be facetious, and because i-like-em-a-lot, Facel Vega are French.

 

[Woolie Wool]

On Maserati, can anyone think of a four-door Maserati sold in the United States before the new Quattroporte?

The original Quattroporte?

Anyway, the GM V8 has been heavily modified by Alfa Romeo to feel and sound suitably Italian, according to Car and Driver.

 

[Woolie Wool]

Saw a Maserati today at the park across the street. Guy driving it was playing team volleyball, further proving that everyone and his sister can drive one of the seven million Maseratis imported to the United States if they so desire. I hear that Ford is really getting scared of the Maserati Coupe cutting into Mustang sales.

Not a chance. The Coupe costs about three times as much as the Mustang.

As for many of the kids driving hot cars, they often have basically made paying for their car their life's work. Once the car and apartment payments are deducted from their paychecks, they have nothing. A lot of them really don't buy them with their parents' money.

 

[Duke]

Just to be facetious, and because i-like-em-a-lot, Facel Vega are French.

I know. I thought of that about an hour after I posted, and then couldn't remember where I'd made that post, and *gasp* didn't feel like Searching for it.

At least I didn't make a new thread to say I was wrong.

But the Facel-Vega was powered by a variety of Chrysler-sourced V8s.

 

[McLaren]

Don't know where you live, but I once lived in a town in the north part of Texas USA called Plano...where there is the most excessive amount of teenagers and young people in general driving arond in BMWs, Mercs, TSXs, S2000s (new ones), GTOs, Mustang Cobras, Lancer EVOs, WRX STis, and other above $30k new or performance cars. This is rediculous...and I'm not even counting the modded up cars also using mommy's and daddy's money. Imagine a fully tuned WS6 Trans-Am being driven by a 17 year old kid...yea that's a fatal accident just waiting to happen. Not only do teenagers do not have the experience handling cars in general but they do not have the maturity or common sense yet in thier STILL FORMING brains to drive such higher performance machines. In Plano TX if you were a 16 year old girl that didn't have a cute Mustang GT, Merc SLK, or 3-series BMW convertable you were not "cool". My younger cousin who went to Plano's high school system herself had a BMW 3-series her father bought her...I still think that's rediculous. I am NOT saying parents can't buy thier kids whatever they want--I AM saying however that they should use common sense and good parenting skills and get them a "starter" car. This is the reason why we should get all those Japanese and European "super mini's" is for the teenagers. It should be a requirement that no child under 18 should be allowed to drive a vehicle with more than 150bhp and or 4 cylinders. Bah, I better stop before I hijack this thread. Maybe someone should start a new one.

The Plano kids, I agree with.
As for, teens do not have the maturity or common sense to drive them, that's bull. I went to Plano High and I had enough maturity in driving a 3000GT VR-4.
2 of my friends drove older Porsches, but the difference between us 3 and the girls and idiot guys was that we KNEW how to drive our cars and we BOUGHT our cars with OUR money. The only reason I had my 3000GT was because my uncle didn't give a crap about me and just gave me the 1st thing he saw that looked nice because he wanted to drive it (which he never did) using the money left to me since I wasn't old enough at the time to legally hold it.

But the point is, I learned how to control that car at 17 (under your "18 rule").
All 3 of us did because we knew what to expect and what to do. The "all teens" is BS and I proved that wrong along with my 2 friends, 1 of which has moved and the other has left...us...

Again, we knew what to do from experience, from research and schools. My point is that not all teens are idiots that drive rich cars. A good friend of mine, Kelly, back in 11th grade was given an old E36 M3 Sedan. But she wasn't 1 of those spoiled kids that you would say, "Daddy bought the car." Yes he did, but she deserved it for being a Straight A student 5 years in a role (Haven't seen her since graduation). But see, she didn't use all that power. She used the M3 just for a what a car was made for. To get from Point A to Point B. Sure she drove her friends around, but she wasn't 1 of those, "Look at me. I'm cool."

All in all....(end of rant), not all teens apply to your "18 rule." Sure some are idiots, but not all are.

 

[Driftster]

Straight A's five years in a row isn't BMW e36 material...

Graduating valadictorian is.

Anyone can get A's in high school..
it's a matter of paying attention, unless you're just NOT bright.

Not many "New things" are covered in high school ya know.

 

[JCE]

The Plano kids, I agree with.
As for, teens do not have the maturity or common sense to drive them, that's bull. I went to Plano High and I had enough maturity in driving a 3000GT VR-4.
2 of my friends drove older Porsches, but the difference between us 3 and the girls and idiot guys was that we KNEW how to drive our cars and we BOUGHT our cars with OUR money. The only reason I had my 3000GT was because my uncle didn't give a crap about me and just gave me the 1st thing he saw that looked nice because he wanted to drive it (which he never did) using the money left to me since I wasn't old enough at the time to legally hold it.

But the point is, I learned how to control that car at 17 (under your "18 rule").
All 3 of us did because we knew what to expect and what to do. The "all teens" is BS and I proved that wrong along with my 2 friends, 1 of which has moved and the other has left...us...

Again, we knew what to do from experience, from research and schools. My point is that not all teens are idiots that drive rich cars. A good friend of mine, Kelly, back in 11th grade was given an old E36 M3 Sedan. But she wasn't 1 of those spoiled kids that you would say, "Daddy bought the car." Yes he did, but she deserved it for being a Straight A student 5 years in a role (Haven't seen her since graduation). But see, she didn't use all that power. She used the M3 just for a what a car was made for. To get from Point A to Point B. Sure she drove her friends around, but she wasn't 1 of those, "Look at me. I'm cool."

All in all....(end of rant), not all teens apply to your "18 rule." Sure some are idiots, but not all are.

Even if you "know what you're doing" an under 18 year old child still does not need these cars--even if they somehow pay for it themselves. When I was 20 I owned a 3000GT VR4 that I paid for with my own money along with my house I bought in the same year--I was a responsible adult with already 2 years of experienced driving along with some SCCA driving lessons and car control lessons and I still wrapped mine around a pole. Even if you THINK you are mature enough maybe you're not...all it takes in 2 seconds of immaturity which alot of sub-18 year old teens DO exhibit at some point or another and your nice car gets wrecked and you get hurt. And I'll use the "all under 18 rule" all day long because no 18 year old has enough experience from ages 16-18 to drive these cars 99% safely. You need to build up your experience. If I were to at 26 somehow buy a Pagani Zonda I'd probably kill myself within a month because I'm not on the super car experience level yet at my age--I'm at an M5, Viper/Z06, EVO, SL55 AMG, and or DB9 level. You don't just jump from not driving anything to an M3 or Merc--that's just insane. Common sense dictates that beginners need begining training.

 

[svtsnake]

I'm pretty sure Doug didn't have a mommy and daddy that bought him nice cars, he worked for that. Plus he's a "trend researcher" for Nissan and is thus required to know a crapload about cars.

im pretty sure i knew who doug was before you did, but nice try.

it also helps to read, m5power isnt a kid

 

[Driftster]

im pretty sure i knew who doug was before you did, but nice try.

it also helps to read, m5power isnt a kid

and THAT wasn't very mature