How to design a track

[rockboi]

i have read a thread here about track designers, show off your track https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=130128

so since it's all about showing-off your track i decided to start a new thread about how to design a race track.

i would just like to ask how did you came up with your turning radius? what variables are to be considered and how wide will the run-off area be??

 

[rockboi]

i would just like to add that the track i wiil be designing will be a grade 4 track, will banking or superelevation be necessary?

 

[IceMan PJN]

i would just like to add that the track i wiil be designing will be a grade 4 track, will banking or superelevation be necessary?

Oooooooookaaaaaaay..., I follow maybe a dozen motorsports from around the world to varying degrees, and I'm not familiar with the term "grade 4 track".... Could you explain?

 

[Ardius]

Oooooooookaaaaaaay..., I follow maybe a dozen motorsports from around the world to varying degrees, and I'm not familiar with the term "grade 4 track".... Could you explain?

He's referring to the FIA grading system which determines what level of competition is allowed to compete at a track. A "Grade 1" track can run F1 cars for instance, whereas I think Grade 4 is historical and small capacity Touring Cars? Basically if you have a grade 2 circuit, you cannot legally run an F1 car at racing or testing speeds there as the safety standards do not meet grade 1.

Here's an FIA document explaining the license grades:
http://www.cba.org.br/arquivos/AUT_normas_gerais.pdf

GRADE CATEGORIES OF CARS
1
F1
1T
F1 testing
2
F3000, CART, IRL, F/Nippon, Euro 3000, Open Telefonica V6
Sports Racing Cars: SR1, SR2, LMP900, LMP675, LM-GTP, Interserie FIA GT
Historics: TGP (F1 of periods G, H, I), Sports Prototype and Two-seater Racing cars, over 2000cc, of periods G and later
3
GT: LM GT, LM GTS, JAF, BRDC, Trans-Am (USA), Aus V8 Supercar, Tranzam (NZ), NASCAR, Modified Saloons (ZA), DTM (D)
Single-seaters over 2000cc (except as in 1,2), BF3000, F/Holden
Sports cars over 2000cc (except as in 2), CN
4
F3, F/Atlantic, F/GM, Barber-Dodge, Open Telefonica 2.0, Asian F/2000, BF3, F/R, FF/2000, FF/1600, F/V, F/Skoda, F/Campus, BMW F/Junior, other s/seaters <2000cc
Historics: S/seaters (HSS) except TGP, F/Junior (HFJ), Sports racing (HSR) except as in 2 above, Sports (HSP), GT(HGT), Touring (HTC), all cars of periods A, B, C, D (HPW)
Sports cars up to 2000cc, Caterham
N-GT, Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, Lamborghini Trophy, F/France Europe, Group B
Super-touring (ST), Super Production, Procar, Trans-Am lights, Tranzam lights
Groups N, A, Clio, Saxo, Alfa, Nissan, GTN360 (AUS), NZ T-cars
5
Electro-solar and alternative energies
6
Off-Road
6A Autocross (all classes)
6R Rallycross (all classes)
6G Ice Racing (all classes)

Its obviously an old document from the late 90s/early 2000s but you get the gist of it. Circuit grades haven't changed a whole lot since then, just the names of the series (e.g. LMP900 is now LMP1, etc).

Most famous and popular tracks are at least grade 2 or 3. Only very small local tracks are grade 4 and below.

Edit: Found a document from 2009 which lists all the grades for different circuits:
http://www.fpak.pt/homologacoes/2009/LISTA CIRCUITOS HOMOLOGADOS FIA.pdf

 

[rockboi]

GRADE CATEGORIES OF CARS
Grade 1 - Formula 1
Grade 1T - Formula 1 private testing
Grade 2 - Single-seater racing cars of Groups D (FIA International
Formula) and E (Free formula) with corrected cylinder
capacities exceeding 2500 cm³, excepting Formula 1
Sports Cars of Groups CN and E: SR1, SR2, LMP1, LMP2
and those with corrected cylinder capacities exceeding
2500 cm³
Historic cars of Groups F1/4 (F1 of periods G, H, I), TSRC
17, 18, 29, 30, 41, 42, 47 and 48 (Two-seater Racing Cars,
exceeding 2000 cm³, of periods G and later) and all cars of
Period Z excepting Group B and WRC
Grade 3 - Single seater racing cars of Groups D and E with corrected
cylinder capacities not exceeding 2500 cm³ excepting cars
in Grades 1 and 2 above
Sports Cars of Groups CN and E excepting cars in Grade 2
above
Cars of Category II Groups GT1, GT2 and GT3
Grade 4 -Single seater racing cars of Groups D and E with corrected
cylinder capacities not exceeding 1600 cm³
Sports Cars of Groups CN and E with corrected cylinder
capacities not exceeding 1600 cm³.
Cars of Category I Groups N, R, A, SP (Touring cars) and B.
Historic cars to Appendix K regulations not included in
Grade 2 above
Grade 5 - Alternative Energy Vehicles
Grade 6 - Off-Road
Grade 6A - Autocross (all classes)
Grade 6R - Rallycross (all classes)
Grade 6G - Ice Racing (all classes)

 

[rockboi]

here's an updated version Appendix O to the international sporting code from the FIA regulations..

i just want to know how to design the corners of a racing circuit are there any necessary calculations to be done??

 

[prisonermonkeys]

There are a few. I believe drivers must be able to take the first corner at a certain speed. That speed is dictated by the length of the straight and the distance from the start line to the braking zone. You'd have to look at the design guidelines for the exact calculations.

 

[Tired Tyres]

He's referring to the FIA grading system which determines what level of competition is allowed to compete at a track. A "Grade 1" track can run F1 cars for instance, whereas I think Grade 4 is historical and small capacity Touring Cars? Basically if you have a grade 2 circuit, you cannot legally run an F1 car at racing or testing speeds there as the safety standards do not meet grade 1.

Yes you can. FIA rules are rules not laws.

 

[F1 fan]

Yes you can. FIA rules are rules not laws.

Break the rules and you'll get a penalty.

 

[Lizard]

Yes you can. FIA rules are rules not laws.

You do that and you will be ejected from any championship you entered.

 

[rockboi]

There are a few. I believe drivers must be able to take the first corner at a certain speed. That speed is dictated by the length of the straight and the distance from the start line to the braking zone. You'd have to look at the design guidelines for the exact calculations.

i have run through to the FIA regulations specifically Appendix O to the international sporting code what they have was only the conceptual part of designing..

my concern as of now is how to design the corner, specifically on determining the maximum radius of that turn. what are variables to be considered?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

my concern as of now is how to design the corner, specifically on determining the maximum radius of that turn. what are variables to be considered?

I have no idea. And unless there is somebody here who designs circuits for a living, I doubt they do, too.

 

[Ardius]

Yes you can. FIA rules are rules not laws.

Considering the FIA includes all national motorsport associations, then you won't be doing much motor-racing.

 

[sar593]

I study civil engineering, and I took a class on road desing. Of course there are formulas that give you the minimum radius depending on the speed you want your road to work, maybe there is something for race tracks, but will be different, because comfort isn't important, as it is in roads, and of course the idea is to take the corner as fast as possible. Normal roads also have a camber of 2° on the straights, so the water can flow easily to the side drainage. Corners have a camber, normally, of 8° and there are also formulas that tell you the distance, and starting point, from where you start to change your camber from 2° to 8°. Of course there are more things you need to consider for a single corner, I just gave some examples, taken from the rules we use in our country.

You COULD use rules ment for road desing to design a race track, you just take every corner as one from a different road. You can also skip some rules, as minimum distance between consecutive corners, or maximum camber, if you want a corner with small radius, but high speed.

I'm not sure about what interludes says about the speed of the first corner as function of the lenght of the straigh, and the distance between the start line and the braking zone. Shanghai has a very fast first corner, but then Monza or Nürburgring have very slow first corners.

In general I think there is a lot of freedom, maybe there is a minimum radius for harpins, a miminum width, minimum distance for main straight, minimum distance between pit exit and next corner, and distance between pit entrance and previous corner. I would just be creative, avoid abrubt changes on the width of the track, and use the rules for camber change.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Considering the FIA includes all national motorsport associations, then you won't be doing much motor-racing.

And Grade-4 circuits wouldn't be fit for racing a Formula 1 car on, anyway.

I'm not sure about what interludes says about the speed of the first corner as function of the lenght of the straigh, and the distance between the start line and the braking zone. Shanghai has a very fast first corner, but then Monza or Nürburgring have very slow first corners.

Like I said, the speed that the drivers take the first corner is dictated by the length of the straight before it, and the distance from the start line to the braking zone. The idea is to create a corner that every car can make it through safetly on the first two laps, so as to avoid multi-car pile-ups.

 

[sar593]

Like I said, the speed that the drivers take the first corner is dictated by the length of the straight before it, and the distance from the start line to the braking zone. The idea is to create a corner that every car can make it through safetly on the first two laps, so as to avoid multi-car pile-ups.

Sorry, it wasn't clear on your previous post. But if you are talking about the first corner on the first two laps, then we also should talk about all the corners of the first lap, so the same rule should apply for all the corners of the track. But I get your point, and it makes sense, it is on the first corner of the race when multi-car pile-ups happen more often, like in the previous examples I gave, or Spa. With touring cars the pile-ups aren't a big problem, but one always designs with the worst case in mind, opel wheel cars.

But I guess that some circuits have slow first corners just to create the pile-ups, as part of the show. Of course this isn't safe for the drivers.

 

[Tired Tyres]

He's referring to the FIA grading system which determines what level of competition is allowed to compete at a track. A "Grade 1" track can run F1 cars for instance, whereas I think Grade 4 is historical and small capacity Touring Cars? Basically if you have a grade 2 circuit, you cannot legally run an F1 car at racing or testing speeds there as the safety standards do not meet grade 1.

Considering the FIA includes all national motorsport associations, then you won't be doing much motor-racing.

I was simply replying to tell you that the LAW does not apply in such a case. If I won the lottery and bought an F1 car I could run it on a Grade 4 track. FACT.

 

[F1 fan]

I was simply replying to tell you that the LAW does not apply in such a case. If I won the lottery and bought an F1 car I could run it on a Grade 4 track. FACT.

You are not a participant in any FIA endorsed championship. Therefore any car you run on a track will be at the discretion of the track owner. Should you be a participant, in any way shape or form, of an FIA endorsed championship, you will have already agreed to test only at authorized locations and will have to have the necessary permissions from the governing body first. Failure to meet any or all of your obligations to the FIA could result in a heavy penalty or even expulsion.

Of course you could buy an F1 car and show up to a track day with it. That's not what we're talking about here. The owner of whatever track you would consider running it at would still have the ability to say no as well. I think if a modern day F1 car showed up at a circuit with a well equipped team of mechanics, the track owners would be on the phone to their representative straight away.

 

[Ardius]

I was simply replying to tell you that the LAW does not apply in such a case. If I won the lottery and bought an F1 car I could run it on a Grade 4 track. FACT.

I didn't say you cannot legally run an F1 car full stop. You could run it with speed restrictions - such as PR runs and shakedowns.
But I'm pretty sure you would face legal challenges for testing or racing an F1 car at these tracks, if not by the circuit owners then by the national Motorsport Association or the FIA.

Certainly the circuit themselves would face some kind of legal action for allowing it.

Its not a possible scenario anyway as no race circuit would allow it just on the grounds of safety.