How to drive MR cars?

[haythem09]

Now this isn't another MR hate thread, (Though it probably would be if I had driven an MR car within the last hour and lost a race I was doing well in, then spin out.) But I am finding these cars hard to race.

Now besides the whole gravity problem, oversteer is a huge problem. I bought an Autobacs Arta Garaiya for GT300, used a ballast to balence weight, lowered ride-height and maxed downforce, but I still can't push this car an inch outside of it's comfort-zone without it losing traction and oversteering.

I find it pointless for a car to have such fast and responsive steering yet the wheels just lose traction if you use it. Now obviously I'm doing something wrong so I'm asking you.

I see a lot of people talk about braking, accelerating and doing both at the same time with MR cars because of some weight-shift? Is it really necessary to keep my foot on the accelerator at all times? I mean I already leave no gaps between braking and accelerating (Using throttle control of course) but doing both at the same time? Why? And also what of tuning for MR cars?

Thanks for any replies, I use G27 if you must know. I can drive MR cars, but I can't race them.

 

[Gentoo64]

The reason for braking while still accelerating is because it smoothens the transition. Because of the position of the engine in MR, if you lift off, the weight will move and the car will try to pivot in whichever direction you turn, hence why straight line braking is super important, and thereforce racing line, as you don't have much play to mess about.

MR is a very relaxed, but quite scary drive. Most people used to FF FR and 4WD will drive MR aggressive and hard. Go on Suzuka and do the first 4-5 turns in FR or whatever, you can mostly cain the accelerator, lift off to get the apex from any direction. In MR you have to accelerate ouf of the apex with good precision and sort of float around every corner getting as smooth exit speed as you can.

With practice MR is probably the most satisfying drive because of how smooth it is, but at the same time, on tracks like Nordschleife where lift off is always normally the way, it can be frustrating spinning out because you didn't think for a split second on a very fast corner.

 

[DrKronin]

I don't know that I can explain it very well, but I do have one piece of advice. Steer with your feet. With the twitchier MR cars, you barely need any steering input for most medium and high speed corners. Braking or even a little lift of the throttle can help the car rotate. And unlike FR cars, progressive (not sudden) throttle application can help you catch a little bit of oversteer. That's one of the weirder things to get used to about corner exits in an MR car. Getting on the throttle to arrest oversteer feels wrong if you're used to FR cars.

The reason overlapping the brake and throttle helps some people control MR cars is that it makes for a less abrupt transition between braking and acceleration as you progress through a corner. Theoretically, you can be a bit faster by not (or only just barely) overlapping, but if it helps you control a car you can't otherwise, it might be worth it -- at least until you get more comfortable with the car.

Anyway, hope that helps a bit.

 

[Z1-AV69]

What did you do with the ballast to balance the weight? And are you sure that helps?

 

[Voodoovaj]

Did you remove the camber? Did you compensate for downforce?

I just checked it, because I was in there doing something anyway. The springs are set up to make it over rotate.

I ran the numbers and changed the suspension to the following (just a quick set up, I didn't spend time on this).

ride height - 63/67
springs 15.06/19.10
compression 4/4
extension 6/6

... i stopped changing stuff there.

set the diff to 15/8/10

Try it now. It worked just fine for me.

 

[haythem09]

Did you remove the camber? Did you compensate for downforce?

I just checked it, because I was in there doing something anyway. The springs are set up to make it over rotate.

I ran the numbers and changed the suspension to the following (just a quick set up, I didn't spend time on this).

ride height - 63/67
springs 15.06/19.10
compression 4/4
extension 6/6

... i stopped changing stuff there.

set the diff to 15/8/10

Try it now. It worked just fine for me.

Wow, thanks. Never looked much and the suspension but your tune makes the car much smoother to drive. I'm no longer greaving every upcoming turn. Never knew the camber was already set at 0.20 for the rear either. I guess MR cars need more attention to tuning as the only MR car I've been able to drive well with stock is the LCC rocket.

 

[haythem09]

What did you do with the ballast to balance the weight? And are you sure that helps?

I put the Ballast at the front and increased weight until it was a 50/50 ratio. I was willing to try anything. To compensate for the weight I increased the power a little too. If you're not increasing the power I guess it would be detrimental. Maybe it doesn't help at all and you'd be better off without the weight. But I tried anyway. The weight balance is already similar anyway because of the engine being the middle.

Edit: I tryed Voodoovqaj's tune with and without the ballast. While both were similar it seems I could control the car a little better with the ballast. Take this all with a grain of salt though, could just be placebo effect. You'd have to try it for yourself.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

And unlike FR cars, progressive (not sudden) throttle application can help you catch a little bit of oversteer. That's one of the weirder things to get used to about corner exits in an MR car. Getting on the throttle to arrest oversteer feels wrong if you're used to FR cars.

Although technically in an FR you also get on the throttle to correct oversteer. The only time you don't is when the oversteer is caused by applying too much throttle, rather than weight shift, which also applies in MRs.

 

[eran0004]

I don't know if this applies to you, but I suspect that a lot of people have a driving style where they are understeering through most corners. They enter the corners too fast and use the front tyres to scrub off speed until they can make the turn. That driving style doesn't work with MR and RR cars. A little trail-braking is fine, as long as you don't enter way too fast, but generally you would want most of the braking to be done before entering the corner.

Once you enter the corner at a correct speed you'll find that it turns very well. While cornering you also need to be careful with the weight balance, if you do a lot of braking and accelerating mid-corner it will upset the balance and that changes how much friction each tyre has got.

So:

• Brake before cornering
• Stay cool in the corner
• Accelerate on exit

 

[Voodoovaj]

Wow, thanks. Never looked much and the suspension but your tune makes the car much smoother to drive. I'm no longer greaving every upcoming turn. Never knew the camber was already set at 0.20 for the rear either. I guess MR cars need more attention to tuning as the only MR car I've been able to drive well with stock is the LCC rocket.

Everything needs attention to a degree. The defaults are set to make the cars feel a certain way, not necessarily perform properly in the game.

 

[xiando]

For me, (after dropping the whole chassis a half inch or so... in the ) it's all about dropping the front end a bit (more), adding toe-out, and adding a little ballast ro remove some of the disparity in the fr balance (ignoring "normal" adjustments for spring rates, etc, at least ignored for the purposes of my lazy response). If there's a front wing adder available, I usually add it, and I usually do the chassis stiffening.

Once I get the car somewhat stable, I adjust the ballast position to fine tune for the "best" tradeoff between under and over steer. Rehash toe/ride height/SR/etc as necessary. I try to avoid going all the way to 50/50, but I do try to slice a hunk off the rear-heavy ratio. A rear wing can help, but I like to do the basics before adding it

I have yet to drive a GT6 MR car that doesn't respond well to those basic adjustments.

MR cars seem more sensitive to changes in gearing/LSD, so I usually have to retune (tweak/adjust) the suspension settings if I modify the geartrain values, and MR cars (for me) require a different attack on curves, in which I try to be more gentle/precise with gear shifts and braking than I might be with either FR or FF cars.

btw, imo, imo, no, you don't have to accelerate at all times. I've found that a certain amount of coasting in turns can be highly beneficial in MR cars, as long as you use slow in fast out. (even fast in fast out sometimes lol)

 

[DrKronin]

Although technically in an FR you also get on the throttle to correct oversteer. The only time you don't is when the oversteer is caused by applying too much throttle, rather than weight shift, which also applies in MRs.

True enough. I guess it is more a matter of degree. I certainly can get on the throttle earlier with MR cars without inducing oversteer. Sometimes it surprises me to discover that the fastest way through a corner involves getting (relatively) hard on the throttle before the apex.