How to organize an equal Super GT championship?

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MagicFerrari

MagicFerrari

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MagicFerrari
Hi everyone!

Well, I have an online racing league with a group of friends and we want to do a Super GT championship -featuring GT500 and GT300 classes-. The problem is that we didn't find equal cars, one is always faster than another. We want to have 500 HP as maximum in GT500 class and 300 HP in GT300 class. Preferably, we want to use premium cars, because people can buy them without problems, but it doesn't happen nothing if we had to use standard cars.

The last thing is that cars are going to be assigned to 4 different teams, and it would be nice to have 4 different constructors assigned to each one of the teams.

Anyone wants to help me? Thanks :)
 
I hope it works out well for you. I recommend getting this moved to the Race Series section, since this is a race series you wish to complete.
 
Torque is the determining factor here. Thats why the premium '06+ gt500's totally destroy the old '00 standard ones at the same hp and weight.

Since you arent going by PP, there is no way to govern this.

If I were you, i would do HP and Weight restrictions, and then add ballasts to the cars with more torque. do some testing until they seem equal.
 
phil_75
^I find the standard NSX GT500 cars fastest of all!!!

OP here you go https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=227945
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There is an up to 150+ ft-lb difference in torque between the '00 and the '08 NSX

Just because you've beaten the new ones before while racing online (if thats even what youre even basing your statement on) thats still completely situational, and in a legitimate online championship, you cant bat an eye at that much torque difference, its way too much.
 
Delta795
We also run GT300 & 500 based off HP & weight http://supergt.net/supergt/2009/09regulation/indextc_e.htm
I've found that if you don't want to have boost on would be to have qualifying laps leading up to the actual races and add ballast to the top cars to even it out.
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Your system is unfair, it penalize better driver, sure you get closer race (but ballast at the end of the race is there for that in SuperGT) but you also negate any difference in driving.

I think if you want a fair race you should use that : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6052850#post6052850

It seems that those guy made research on superGT cars.
 
RX-7_FD3S
Your system is unfair, it penalize better driver, sure you get closer race (but ballast at the end of the race is there for that in SuperGT) but you also negate any difference in driving.

I think if you want a fair race you should use that : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6052850#post6052850

It seems that those guy made research on superGT cars.
Click to expand...

The OP said he wanted to do a Super GT league, and this is how they utilize a weight penalty against each car. What it essentially does is determine who is the best racer. Unless you are in identical cars you cannot tell if it's the car or the driver that is the determining factor.
 
seanneedscar
Torque is the determining factor here. Thats why the premium '06+ gt500's totally destroy the old '00 standard ones at the same hp and weight.
Click to expand...

That only makes sense for the NSX models and the Xanavi Z. Otherwise they are all at a huge torque disadvantage compared to the generally-turbocharged JGTC models.
 
Delta795
The OP said he wanted to do a Super GT league, and this is how they utilize a weight penalty against each car. What it essentially does is determine who is the best racer. Unless you are in identical cars you cannot tell if it's the car or the driver that is the determining factor.
Click to expand...

That system is only a part of SuperGT, the other part is ensure that every car is equal, and that's where's you use the link I posted. Because in the game, they did some really weird things with the SuperGT cars. I think the link provided by that guy is great to even the car out, before ballast comes into play.
 
Get your friends to pick the cars out of a hat so that someone doesn't automatically pick the best car.

Then at the end of each race add ballast to the top 3 drivers.
1st = 20kg
2nd = 10kg
3rd = 5kg
Last = -5kg

This way if your race series is long enough it will keep it tight and close.

As for the teams/cars the full list is:
GT500
HONDA
Honda ARTA NSX '06
Honda EPSON NSX '08
Honda RAYBRIG NSX '06
Honda TAKATA DOME NSX '06
LEXUS
Lexus BANDAI DIREZZA SC430 '06
Lexus DENSO DUNLOP SARD SC430 '08
Lexus ENEOS SC430 '08
Lexus PETRONAS TOM'S SC430 '08
NISSAN
Nissan Calsonic IMPUL GT-R '08
Nissan MOTUL AUTECH GT-R '08
Nissan WOODONE ADVAN Clarion GT-R '08
Nissan XANAVI NISMO GT-R '08
Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z '06
Nissan YellowHat YMS TOMICA GT-R '08
TOYOTA
Toyota Castrol TOM'S SUPRA '97
Toyota YellowHat YMS Supra '05

GT300
RE Amemiya Amemiya AsparaDrink RX7 '06
Subaru CUSCO DUNLOP SUBARU IMPREZA '08
Lexus Weds Sport IS350 '08
Autobacs ARTA Garaiya '08
 
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RX-7_FD3S
That system is only a part of SuperGT, the other part is ensure that every car is equal, and that's where's you use the link I posted. Because in the game, they did some really weird things with the SuperGT cars. I think the link provided by that guy is great to even the car out, before ballast comes into play.
Click to expand...


I like what he does but instead of ballast he's putting a power limiter in. While it looks good I would have issue with regulating some of the cars. There is no way to verify anybody with these. Otherwise it's a crapshoot to make sure someone driving the Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z is actually setting the PL: 94,6%. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
Delta795
I like what he does but instead of ballast he's putting a power limiter in. While it looks good I would have issue with regulating some of the cars. There is no way to verify anybody with these. Otherwise it's a crapshoot to make sure someone driving the Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z is actually setting the PL: 94,6%. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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You set the PP for each person to enter the track. Its hard to explain but I've raced in the WSGTC before, they set a certain PP for you, if you were cheating you wouldnt be able to enter the track.
 
Well guys, we have decided to eliminate GT300 class and in GT500 we'll use these cars (only premium ones):

Rothmans Racing: Honda
Martini Legends: Lexus
Team Marlboro: Nissan
John Player Special: Toyota

Nissan XANAVI Nismo Z and Toyota Castrol TOM'S Supra banned.

I'll tell you...
 
Having a set pp should be close to fair. If you use same hp and weight some have different downforce maximums so that route is dangerous in my opinion. The most extreme equalizer is using one brand and setting hp, weight and aero limited.

Example all nissans or only lexus or honda.
 
Jawehawk
A difference of up to 10 BHP will not cost or win you a race.
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always use percents. 10 hp would do good in the JR kart

as for the race series the only way for it to be fair is if everybody has the same car. racing is about winning so cars from one manufacturer will have better technology than the other creating unbalanced racing.
 
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Use the same year cars. The regulations changed over the years. The 2006 models are different than the 2008s.

Don't use the Z or the Supra.

The 2008 Epson NSX weighs 50kg more than the Nissans or Lexus. This is because it has a MR drivetrain, so it is penalized 50kg.
 
f1_stig
always use percents. 10 hp would do good in the JR kart

as for the race series the only way for it to be fair is if everybody has the same car. racing is about winning so cars from one manufacturer will have better technology than the other creating unbalanced racing.
Click to expand...

The small differences between the GT500 cars will not decide who wins the race. A car that very slightly faster on the straight, might very well be slight slower in the bends. There's a reason these cars race in the same class IRL.

But of course, as the perosn above me states, take note of the different years.
 
granddriver
The 2008 Epson NSX weighs 50kg more than the Nissans or Lexus. This is because it has a MR drivetrain, so it is penalized 50kg.
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:confused: all of the NSXs have an MR drivetrain....and every one but the EPSON is at the standard 1000kgs.
 
Use NASCAR or RM's.
An issue like this truly displays the weakness of the PP system. 600PP isn't the same for all cars. But, it should be. It is extremely difficult to find truly fair cars from different manufacturers.

The best way would be to purchase all of the possible cars. Change the oil and tune all of them to 500HP. Then max out the Aero or have a "standard" Front/Rear aero number for all of them.
After that, identify the car(s) with the lowest PP and add ballast to all of the other cars until they all get to that lowest PP number.

This will not be "perfect", but it will get you close.
Then, of course, you'll have the issue of ensuring all of the participants actually do follow their restrictions. There is really no way whatsoever of policing this.
 
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seanneedscar
There is an up to 150+ ft-lb difference in torque between the '00 and the '08 NSX

Just because you've beaten the new ones before while racing online (if thats even what youre even basing your statement on) thats still completely situational, and in a legitimate online championship, you cant bat an eye at that much torque difference, its way too much.
Click to expand...

Its based off timetrials and testing. Mobil 1 NSX is fastest of all for me and generally all NSX's are the fastest. (I Should add fastest at 600PP)

Otherwise it would be Nismo Z at standard PP
 
Newer cars of newer year type are necessarily faster than elder ones even if classified as the "same" category substantially matched with each other in horsepower. The distribution of the car's weight and aerodynamic performance should be much better compared to them, as well as being rigged with an engine with higher torque... Putting ballasts on faster cars would be mandatory if you hope to organise a fair event without gaps of horsepower, but I bet it would be difficult to do that for GT300 category for bigger interval of performance between cars.
 

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