HP Discrepancy

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mitssn

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Have a question. Has anyone expereinced this?

I have the HPA R32 with the Stage 4 turbo setup. In the garage and the parts screen it says it produces 631HP, but when I race and the playback begins it says the car is only 592HP?? Thats a 41HP difference that I feel is hindering the performance... Anyone have any suggestions??
 
Gran Turismo 3 did the same thing. Im pretty sure 631 is HP at the Crank and the 592 is HP at the wheels.
 
yeah this was discussed in general somewhere else, its actually quite annoying that its not even labeled
 
no car has 41 hp drivetrain loss, most are around 15-20, i think it doesnt factor in the little oil change trick, but what it says in the garage is what you should go on i believe

then again it might factor in both drivetrain loss and the oil change trick.

who knows
 
GT40racer
no car has 41 hp drivetrain loss, most are around 15-20, i think it doesnt factor in the little oil change trick, but what it says in the garage is what you should go on i believe

then again it might factor in both drivetrain loss and the oil change trick.

who knows
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Unfortunately, you are wrong.

Drivetrain loss is percentage based and is different on all cars. For example, an average loss on FWD cars is 14%, 17% on RWD and 24-25% on AWD vehicles in stock form. Dyno machines can perform these calculations more precisely through known statistics.

Jay
 
GT40racer
no car has 41 hp drivetrain loss, most are around 15-20, i think it doesnt factor in the little oil change trick, but what it says in the garage is what you should go on i believe

then again it might factor in both drivetrain loss and the oil change trick.

who knows
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15 - 20%, not horsepower. That can send a 600 bhp car down to 480 whp

edit: :yuck: i'm slow
 
And besides, the horsepower differences you see in a replay verses your garage in the game is either a) shoddy programmer work; b) horsepower lost through dirty oil in the game. Also when buying a car, the horsepower on the stat screen is always different from when you get it into your garage.. It might be some random feature used on every car so that no two alike cars in the game are exactly the same amount of power since that's how it works in real life as well.
 
unfortunately, i dont care

i saw on a tv show a dodge neon srt4 had 16 hp drivetrain loss, and has 235 hp, do the math buddy,

and theres no way in hell a drivetrain could take 120 hp off a car, with my hand ive turned the rear wheels on a car by turning the driveshaft upfront and im not sure how 119 more hp would be lost in the transmission.
 
GT40racer
unfortunately, i dont care

i saw on a tv show a dodge neon srt4 had 16 hp drivetrain loss, and has 235 hp, do the math buddy,

and theres no way in hell a drivetrain could take 120 hp off a car, with my hand ive turned the rear wheels on a car by turning the driveshaft upfront and im not sure how 119 more hp would be lost in the transmission.
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Drivetrain losses can count for up to a % of the horsepower loss. So a 200 hp car might lose 15%, making it 170 at the wheels. Usually the drivetrain on a 200 hp car is not state of the art.

On a high horsepower car that have a very efficient drivetrain with either, (A) have very little hp loss, percentage-wise, or (B) break drivetrain parts.

As you stated, if a drivetrain accounts for 120 hp loss, something is wrong (probably broken).

You can't compare a 235 hp car to a 600 hp anything in terms of percentages regarding efficiency.
 
GT40racer
unfortunately, i dont care

i saw on a tv show a dodge neon srt4 had 16 hp drivetrain loss, and has 235 hp, do the math buddy,

and theres no way in hell a drivetrain could take 120 hp off a car, with my hand ive turned the rear wheels on a car by turning the driveshaft upfront and im not sure how 119 more hp would be lost in the transmission.
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You are wrong he is right. Although, his percentages can be moved 3-4 points in either direction. His percentages are too strict.

As for the neon.
WHat TV show? Was the neon stock? He was talking about stock vehicles. Performance parts are sometimes built to spec to try to reduce drivetrainloss as best as possible vs stock vehicles must think about cost as well. Sometimes that extra 5 hp isn't work the extra 3 grand spend gaining it.
 
So maybe is this why people were hoping for a dyno feature in GT4 (remember that GT1 had kind of a good gauge of horsepower)? Or does it have one? Also remember that I don't have GT4 yet, so I don't know for sure about almost anything.
 
Nice read, though.
 
I just have a beer and some cheese and drive the crap out of whatever car I am in. Weeeeeeee.
 
Well, that was amusing. No body ventured to answer the guy's original question.

It's all been 'I know this this and that about hp loss from fly-wheel when Saturn's in ascendance'!

All very interesting stuff, even if it misses poor Mitssn's point by a country mile.

So, would it be too much to ask for some corroboration from some spritely chaps who have the game to confirm the problem. Seems dafter than a brush for PD to screw up figures so blatantly, which makes me think there's something else going on.

My tuppence, something's not selected, and that's why there's a difference shown in hp.

Cheers.
 
The SRT4 does not have a 16 hp drivetrain loss, the SRT4 is clearly underrated from the factory, that's what you're seeing.

Those percentages I gave were just examples of stock cars I've had experiences with, the WRX is a 24-25% loss to the wheels, my 2000 Prelude had a 14% loss, and my Starion has a 17% loss.. that's where I got the numbers.

GT40Racer, you're talking out your ass.. I don't care what you've seen on TV, those guys will say anything to get paid.

Anyways, back on topic - it's my gathering that the programmers at PD rushed that aspect of the game and didn't make sure their numbers lined up from the garage and other parts of the game. Unfortunately a lot has been rushed in this game, such as the 03 Lightning not being supercharged.. it's completely NA in the game, shrug.

Jay
 
Lol!!!

'rush'
v. rushed, rush·ing, rush·es
v. intr.

1. To move or act swiftly; hurry.
2. To make a sudden or swift attack or charge.
3. To flow or surge rapidly, often with noise: Tons of water rushed over the falls.


The word 'rush' and PD seem soooo far apart...
 
Yeah, it's an oxymoron when used in conjunction with Polyphony Digital. They must have the staff of 5 people or something, I can't think of any other reasons why there's a few shoddy things in this game. We can only hope PD reads this forum and understand that we (the players/consumers) see further in levels of detail than they do.
 
Good point WRX. There was a thread, a while back, suggesting some form of contact with PD/Sony with direct regard to how we (the consumers) saw their product. It sorta died a death, various points made etc however, no real movement towards contacting the guys who make the game.

If the PAL version arrives festooned with the same niggles, other than being a bit of a downer, maybe we should indeed consider the thorny issue of 'speaking out' to someone who is in or close to a position to actually take it on board?
 
Considering the Gran Turismo series have become a sort of "movement" with videogamers these days, the folks at PD would be idiots to not cater to us and meet our expectations the next go-round. We would have to infiltrate some Japanese message boards, hold a few Japanese kids hostage (for translation) and send them our demands to make it happen i'm sure.

Jay
 
Swillie
I just have a beer and some cheese and drive the crap out of whatever car I am in. Weeeeeeee.
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mans got his priorities straight
 
WRX02Slowness
The SRT4 does not have a 16 hp drivetrain loss, the SRT4 is clearly underrated from the factory, that's what you're seeing.

Those percentages I gave were just examples of stock cars I've had experiences with, the WRX is a 24-25% loss to the wheels, my 2000 Prelude had a 14% loss, and my Starion has a 17% loss.. that's where I got the numbers.

GT40Racer, you're talking out your ass.. I don't care what you've seen on TV, those guys will say anything to get paid.

Anyways, back on topic - it's my gathering that the programmers at PD rushed that aspect of the game and didn't make sure their numbers lined up from the garage and other parts of the game. Unfortunately a lot has been rushed in this game, such as the 03 Lightning not being supercharged.. it's completely NA in the game, shrug.

Jay
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ok then if youve actually got dyno numbers then i respect that.

ive been proven wrong

touche
 
If there wasnt a HP discrepency from screen to screen i would be worried:) since all 3 other versions of the game had it:)
 
Check www.sportcompactcarweb.com, they have dyno figures about the SRT-4 that prove you wrong. The SRT -4 is grossly underrated. And has anyone cosidered the loss of horsepower to be a correction factor that has been overlooked. Most people rate hp by a dyno which almost all use a correction factor to adjust for temp. barometric pressure and humidity. Maybe the higher numer is the corrected number, and the lower number is the actual hp. just a guess.
 
WRX02Slowness
Unfortunately a lot has been rushed in this game, such as the 03 Lightning not being supercharged.. it's completely NA in the game, shrug.

Jay
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Yeah. With all the research that went into this game, don't you think it would have been possible to run these basic specs by someone who knows anything about them? They could have posted their Ford spreadsheet over at any ford forum and 500,000 rednecks would have said "uh uh! boys that there truck has a blower on it!"

Of course... they also would have asked "wheres the NASCAR taurus?" :yuck:
 
I don't get it though, they first had the huge goof up with the Lightning being AWD and normally aspirated.. They atleast fixed it in the North American and other releases to reflect it being RWD.. but didn't want to go the whole 9 yards and fix the rest ? PD has some strange priorities for sure.

Jay
 
I noticed this and I believe the Horsepower loss, or in some cases gain, occurs on different tracks according to elevation , and in some cases time of day/tempurate. I havent payed alot of attention to this in GT4 since i havent had tons of time to play yet, but I dont believe Polyphony would make such a silly mistake. If someone posted this response earlier, sorry, couldnt be bothered by the people who know and think they know mechanics.
 
There are actually 3 different numbers shown for a single car in this game. Thats what bugs me. There is the number it shows in the garage on the "car selection" screen, the number is shows when you select a car and view it in the garage, and then number is shows at the start of a replay. The numbers in the garage, I can understand. When you view a car, down in the lower left when it gives the stats, that number is the "US horsepower" of the car. The number it shows in the main garage screen when selecting cars is the "Metric Horsepower (PS)" for the car. But, the number it gives when viewing replays is beyond me. Heres my M3 CSL for example......

517HP - Viewing car in garage (US horsepower)
524HP - Viewing garage list (Metric horsepower PS)
492HP - Viewing car in replay (????)

So, again, the numbers in the garage are just listed as "US HP" for one, and "Metric HP for another. But, the number in the replay I have no clue.

Hilg
 
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