Hybrids changing the dynamic of speed when it comes to drifting

[Drift_Monkey]

In my opinion, since hybrids came into play it's now easier to get cars up to speed. But, somehow they seem to create a bigger gap in terms of slow and fast drifters.

Before, there were always expectations of which car was fast and which cars were slow. The Camaros, BMWs, ISFs were pretty much the fastest drift cars. But now, because of hybrids, anything can be fast. This creates a few problems.

The drivers who don't care that much for speed end up gaining more angle and "slowing down" whereas the usually fast drivers gain even more speed. So now there is a bigger gap between the slow and the fast. It gets harder and harder to keep up and it becomes frustrating for some and exhilarating for others. Sure we have a choice whether to become faster if we wanted to but then we will all lose the individuality we get from our driving styles. If everyone is fast then what's the point.

Another problem occurs when there is no way to limit the amount of speed a car can get. For example, put a more powerful motor in a bmw or camaro and then you can easily outpace the chase car which makes it harder to judge whether that person won by skill or because of the car (I'm not saying fast drifting doesn't take skill). This takes the challenge out of a tandem and turns it into a game of catch.

My question to the drifting community is do you think drifting has gotten too fast, too slow or there is no change.

 

[Aquarelle]

I remember seeing a video of an S13 vs an S13 with a V8 swap, the track had a wide outer ring at the start where the V8 could pull away massively but then when they got into the infield the slower S13 caught up.

I think we simply need to change the way we judge and the tracks that we use to better equalise the field.

Power difference is very much a real world problem and it just means that the conditions for the judges aren't as static as they once were.

As for your question, fast drifters will always be fast drifters; I don't think there's much change there.

 

[Kitten]

I think it has gotten to fast. Chassis change the Grip Levels as Balance of the Car. It made me lose interest in Drifting.

 

[JR86]

Definately has become too fast. As someone who has never modded or had a modded car, it's annoying when a hybrid takes off away from you and blinds you with smoke. The hybrid can follow me easy but even when I speed drift, I've no chance to catch up and get any proximity. This isn't always the case, but a lot of hybrids are too fast

 

[Eric1512]

Lol mine actually made me slower. Then again I tend to stay away from the racecar/supercar chassis. Easiest way to makw sure no one is too quick. Limit your room to 600 pp.

 

[LeoRX]

If you change chassis on S15 to NSX, of course it will go faster. But you can easily spoil the result with adding to much power. It's still very complicated to create a real quick car. Non of my hybrids still can be compared to ZR1 or 458 Ferrari. I mean, yes, I can show the same time in ZR1 and in my S15. But when it comes to tandem, S15 gets a lot more uncomfortable.
So yes, slow cars can be made to go a bit faster, but still not too fast to create a massive problem with tandeming.
On the other hand you can actually spoil all the speed of your car with the wrong chassis. Or whith too much power. And this can really slow you down.

I think there is no change in the common speed of the whole drifting community. Someone became faster, someone slower. Hybrids are just another way of tuning. Even without hybriding same cars could have very different speed.

Lol mine actually made me slower. Then again I tend to stay away from the racecar/supercar chassis. Easiest way to makw sure no one is too quick. Limit your room to 600 pp.

600pp is a lot.

 

[JrDarknes]

Hosted one comp with only engine swaps. These people were regulars. They indeed drifted way too fast.

Drifting has gotten way too fast in my opinion.

Never allowing hacked cars again.

 

[Lock2Lock]

This is why I stay away from chassis swaps. A lot of that has made it difficult to figure out what car is what now. I honestly do not like chassis swaps at all, just because the fact that you are taking most of the handling (grip mostly) from one car and applying it to another.

Engine swap however, it can make or break a car. I have seen a few BMW Z4s with V8 swaps, they seem to lose that speed because of the added HP you get.

 

[GalleSjef]

Easiest way to make sure no one is too quick. Limit your room to 600 pp.

and/or hp limits.

As it is impossible to directly change grip-levels with hybriding the mechanics involved are the same for both normal and hybrid cars. The only difference is when people use race-car chassii without removing downforce (which is easily done btw), the same kind of muppets that would drift normal cars with "too much" downforce as well.

It's basically an(other) example of how much PD's online filters are lacking.

I don't see this as a bigger problem than the ones with existing cars tbh, then again I slide around slower than most no matter the chassis :-P


G

 

[Eric1512]

Like I said. Limiting your room will stop all of the really fast cars. Changing the chassis changes the PP of the car. Some cars I had to lower the HP to below 400 to keep within 600 PP. If you want pro-am level cars do 550 PP. If you want missiles do 500 PP. I have tested all of these and they seem to level out all of the cars.

 

[SLaBaTaC]

Well i drift in 'non modded' cars and still have no problems keeping with these 'modded' cars,im usually leading the pack if anything with 400-450 HP in my NSX's . But i prefer speed over angle but can pull off big angles if choose to.

 

[Drift_Monkey]

This is why I stay away from chassis swaps. A lot of that has made it difficult to figure out what car is what now. I honestly do not like chassis swaps at all, just because the fact that you are taking most of the handling (grip mostly) from one car and applying it to another.

Engine swap however, it can make or break a car. I have seen a few BMW Z4s with V8 swaps, they seem to lose that speed because of the added HP you get.

now imagine a CSL with an engine swap

 

[Lock2Lock]

now imagine a CSL with an engine swap

Yep, it probably would be a lot slower (just my guess). Which I agree can be a bad or good thing.

It's just one of those 50/50 things man.

 

[Drift_Monkey]

Yep, it probably would be a lot slower (just my guess). Which I agree can be a bad or good thing.

It's just one of those 50/50 things man.

it's not its way faster

 

[Lock2Lock]

it's not its way faster

Really? Hummmm didn't expect that. I guess it is through the chassis.

 

[iPutWorkn]

now imagine a CSL with an engine swap

 

[twitcher]

DM, to answer your original question, I would say there is No Change. Crazy, right? But the way I look at things, speed is relative.

You mentioned some of the "fast" drift cars (SS 10, BMW, etc). I drift an M5 a lot, and yes, compared to many cars in the game, it is fast. However, when I'm in a room with the rest of the Fam...Griff in his CSL, Gam in his E92, SR in his E92, 86d in his SS'10, Red in his ISF, Ja in his 599, Work in his 135i, Rice in his Challenger, Push in his M5, and Marc in anything with 4 wheels, my M5 isn't fast at all...it's the same speed as all the other guys.

Each person has a unique way of playing any video game. And I think it is normal desire to want to find other people who play the game in a similar way, or in ways that compliment/cooperate with each other.

It is for that reason that I think speed difference is more about who you drift with, not what you drift. If you drift with people who have the same attitude towards drifting as you do, you won't run into the "speed difference" problem as much. (BTW I'm using "you" in the general sense now, I'm not preaching at DM )


Lets face it, most of us around here have been playing this game a long time now, and know it's ins and outs like the back of our hand. Most people have a pretty good picture of what the drift characteristics of all the popular drift cars look like (by popular, I mean pretty much anything premium and RWD, along with anything Japanese/Euro and RWD from 1980 and up). Any of us can enter a lobby, have a look at the list of cars being used, and pretty much know what the average speed of the lobby is going to be. This leads to a certain sense of security when you enter the track, as you at least have some idea what you're getting into. Also, because of our in depth knowledge of the game, we have a basic idea of what is possible with each car. By this I mean, lets say I'm driving an S14, and someone goes ripping by me in a Spirit R, I know that the chances of me keeping up are slim to none. I know that the person in the Spirit R is drifting in a different "groove" or "zone" than I am, so I just do my own thing, and I don't loose any sleep over it.

Hybrids have turned this knowledge of the game on it's side. Body's have become skins that give very little information away about what is actually "under the hood", so to speak. The whole notion of "I'm driving an S14, that guy is driving an S14, therefore I should be able to keep up" goes right out the window.

There is no doubt that, in random public lobbies, it can be a little trickier to find good tandem partners because it is more difficult to know the characteristics of another person's drift car just by looking at the body. However, I would argue when drifting with people you know, if you know the other person's style of drifting, you can have a much better idea of what their car is going to be capable of. To me, a slightly "worse" random public lobby experience and a loss of "all knowing" knowledge of the game is a small price to pay for the the creativity and possibilities brought on by hybrids.

In my opinion, hybriding has opened the doors of creativity in GT5 similar to the way custom fabrication has in the real world car scene. Think about it....10-20 years ago or before, you could go to a car meet, or a track, and if you were a "car guy" you could pretty much know the basic characteristics of most of the cars there. Outlandish custom swaps were very very rare, as they were incredibly difficult to do (mostly because of the costs involved). Today though, you can stroll through a car meet, and if hoods are down, you have noooo idea what kind of beast you are looking at. 1JZ in a 180SX, sure! LS in a Miata, why not? I was at a show over the summer where some dude put a Aston Martin V12 in a 2012 Mustang And it's not just motor swaps either. Any classic American muscle car can have the suspension, breaks, and steering completely redone so that they handle pretty close to a modern sports car (ie...you can take a tail happy car like a '69 Camaro, and "add tons of grip" ). The bodies of real cars are become more and more like the "skins" we see in video games.


Anyways I'm kind of rambling now haha. My point is, to me, the "speed difference problem" has more to do with the attitudes of two drivers towards each other, and towards the nature of what "tandem drifting" really is, and not to do with the cars they are driving.

 

[Serum]

If they want to tandem they will slow down.

Sneak tandemers(is this even a word) are the worst.

 

[Drift_Monkey]

DM, to answer your original question, I would say there is No Change. Crazy, right? But the way I look at things, speed is relative.

You mentioned some of the "fast" drift cars (SS 10, BMW, etc). I drift an M5 a lot, and yes, compared to many cars in the game, it is fast. However, when I'm in a room with the rest of the Fam...Griff in his CSL, Gam in his E92, SR in his E92, 86d in his SS'10, Red in his ISF, Ja in his 599, Work in his 135i, Rice in his Challenger, Push in his M5, and Marc in anything with 4 wheels, my M5 isn't fast at all...it's the same speed as all the other guys.

Each person has a unique way of playing any video game. And I think it is normal desire to want to find other people who play the game in a similar way, or in ways that compliment/cooperate with each other.

It is for that reason that I think speed difference is more about who you drift with, not what you drift. If you drift with people who have the same attitude towards drifting as you do, you won't run into the "speed difference" problem as much. (BTW I'm using "you" in the general sense now, I'm not preaching at DM )


Lets face it, most of us around here have been playing this game a long time now, and know it's ins and outs like the back of our hand. Most people have a pretty good picture of what the drift characteristics of all the popular drift cars look like (by popular, I mean pretty much anything premium and RWD, along with anything Japanese/Euro and RWD from 1980 and up). Any of us can enter a lobby, have a look at the list of cars being used, and pretty much know what the average speed of the lobby is going to be. This leads to a certain sense of security when you enter the track, as you at least have some idea what you're getting into. Also, because of our in depth knowledge of the game, we have a basic idea of what is possible with each car. By this I mean, lets say I'm driving an S14, and someone goes ripping by me in a Spirit R, I know that the chances of me keeping up are slim to none. I know that the person in the Spirit R is drifting in a different "groove" or "zone" than I am, so I just do my own thing, and I don't loose any sleep over it.

Hybrids have turned this knowledge of the game on it's side. Body's have become skins that give very little information away about what is actually "under the hood", so to speak. The whole notion of "I'm driving an S14, that guy is driving an S14, therefore I should be able to keep up" goes right out the window.

There is no doubt that, in random public lobbies, it can be a little trickier to find good tandem partners because it is more difficult to know the characteristics of another person's drift car just by looking at the body. However, I would argue when drifting with people you know, if you know the other person's style of drifting, you can have a much better idea of what their car is going to be capable of. To me, a slightly "worse" random public lobby experience and a loss of "all knowing" knowledge of the game is a small price to pay for the the creativity and possibilities brought on by hybrids.

In my opinion, hybriding has opened the doors of creativity in GT5 similar to the way custom fabrication has in the real world car scene. Think about it....10-20 years ago or before, you could go to a car meet, or a track, and if you were a "car guy" you could pretty much know the basic characteristics of most of the cars there. Outlandish custom swaps were very very rare, as they were incredibly difficult to do (mostly because of the costs involved). Today though, you can stroll through a car meet, and if hoods are down, you have noooo idea what kind of beast you are looking at. 1JZ in a 180SX, sure! LS in a Miata, why not? I was at a show over the summer where some dude put a Aston Martin V12 in a 2012 Mustang And it's not just motor swaps either. Any classic American muscle car can have the suspension, breaks, and steering completely redone so that they handle pretty close to a modern sports car (ie...you can take a tail happy car like a '69 Camaro, and "add tons of grip" ). The bodies of real cars are become more and more like the "skins" we see in video games.


Anyways I'm kind of rambling now haha. My point is, to me, the "speed difference problem" has more to do with the attitudes of two drivers towards each other, and towards the nature of what "tandem drifting" really is, and not to do with the cars they are driving.

i see your point, But when work laughed it off above he knows exactly what I mean. Cars are just blistfully fast now. Before there were a few guys who I knew were really fast but now almost everyone is. I'm in a gt86 with gallardo chassis and I'm struggling to keep up. I highly doubt it's about tune but it makes comps very uneven.

I believe we should get a proper judging criteria thread. So when in comps people don't vote on who was the fastest because there is a winning formula for that.

 

[Isho]

. I'm in a gt86 with gallardo chassis and I'm struggling to keep up.

Maybe its because of your chassis. The gallardo isnt that good. Well atleast in my opinion.

 

[Drift_Monkey]

Maybe its because of your chassis. The gallardo isnt that good. Well atleast in my opinion.

I agree, but it' faster than my Supra, which has a lot of grip for a supra

 

[Serum]

I believe we should get a proper judging criteria thread. So when in comps people don't vote on who was the fastest because there is a winning formula for that.

The only possible solution without not allowing hybrids to compete, would be to have comps with different classes based on lap times. On tracks like tsukuba and suzuka east, there should be a set speed limit to cruise the straight, then drift the rest of the track as normal. That way the playing field would be leveled, because only cars of a certain class would be allowed.

But honestly, since current judging is based on formual d it shouldn't matter, because they would care less if you have a stock sr and everyone else has ls1, causing you to get left behind on your chase run.

 

[Gonales]

Can I just make a quick suggestion to people to wake up?

Drift Bash competition. I'm in the lead, without having used a single Chassis swap. It doesn't matter if people swap chassis or not, in the end it's all about if you can drive or not.

For example, I told someone I'd seen practicing in a chassis swapped R32 that he was way to fast. Told him I'd not see him getting far. He got totally destroyed in the first round.

 

[Drift_Monkey]

Can I just make a quick suggestion to people to wake up?

Drift Bash competition. I'm in the lead, without having used a single Chassis swap. It doesn't matter if people swap chassis or not, in the end it's all about if you can drive or not.

For example, I told someone I'd seen practicing in a chassis swapped R32 that he was way to fast. Told him I'd not see him getting far. He got totally destroyed in the first round.

People don't use chassis swaps to be better or faster sometimes they just like the fitment. But, people should be aware that when you change the chassis or add and engine it makes the car behave differently. Even if it's just faster keep in mind that if you want to tandem, the objective isn't to be fast.

 

[BayouSimDrifter]

The only possible solution without not allowing hybrids to compete, would be to have comps with different classes based on lap times. On tracks like tsukuba and suzuka east, there should be a set speed limit to cruise the straight, then drift the rest of the track as normal. That way the playing field would be leveled, because only cars of a certain class would be allowed.

But honestly, since current judging is based on formual d it shouldn't matter, because they would care less if you have a stock sr and everyone else has ls1, causing you to get left behind on your chase run.

Can I just make a quick suggestion to people to wake up?

Drift Bash competition. I'm in the lead, without having used a single Chassis swap. It doesn't matter if people swap chassis or not, in the end it's all about if you can drive or not.

For example, I told someone I'd seen practicing in a chassis swapped R32 that he was way to fast. Told him I'd not see him getting far. He got totally destroyed in the first round.

Read Drift Bash rules carefully. All are applied and Spank's criteria for judging is very high. Theres a reason why people keep coming back to his comps.

and Dom is right on that, she is one of the few that drive consistent no matter what car they are in. In the end its all about how you hold your line whether you are leading or following.

 

[D-Max]

i see your point, But when work laughed it off above he knows exactly what I mean. Cars are just blistfully fast now. Before there were a few guys who I knew were really fast but now almost everyone is. I'm in a gt86 with gallardo chassis and I'm struggling to keep up. I highly doubt it's about tune but it makes comps very uneven.

I believe we should get a proper judging criteria thread. So when in comps people don't vote on who was the fastest because there is a winning formula for that.

You should try talking to Ono... His 86gt is silly fast on stock chassis. Leaving me to believe its up to setup to an extent...

What I've found is adding a wider track gives you more speed. adding a mid engine chassis gives you more speed. Adding a a more powerful engine can completely ruin the speed or compliment it!

To me, it's all in the setup and twitch has, in my opinion, hit the nail on the head. It's who you drift with that makes the biggest difference. I was in with work and could stay on his door very well with a hybrid, maybe an FC? Then I tried with Frag in the same car and he had a Stock FC with LFA chassis and was pulling away even though its not the fastest of cars....

 

[Suzuki]

I would have to agree with Twitcher here. More power just gives me the ability to get more angle and I don't go too crazy with power either. I do it for the torque and response of that particular engine, which helps me get as close as I can to the lead driver and or pull the angle I want. I have found that some cars do get quicker, but they were slow and low powered to begin with so it is like a helping hand to make them more competitive/tandem friendly.

 

[Drift_Monkey]

What about the gap between the slow drifters and the fast ones. Do you think people are getting slower?

 

[D-Max]

What about the gap between the slow drifters and the fast ones. Do you think people are getting slower?

I don't really get what you mean here? How can people e getting slower?

 

[ae86fanatic]

I don't really get what you mean here? How can people e getting slower?

Basically what he is saying, is that the drifters who were on the slow side as far as their technique goes, seem to be slower in comparison now because of the hybrids. Hybrids in a way, have caused the gap in speed to be much larger than they originally were. Which is why he is asking if the gap between the fast and the slow seems to have gotten bigger.

I think that it has discouraged a lot of drifters from trying to become faster than they are because of the hybrids. Hybrids have allowed drivers who either want something more than what they are offered in their GT5 experience or drivers who are too lazy to spend time practicing their technique with tuning the ability to make their cars faster.