I am in desperate need of help...

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Jpec07

Jpec07

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Ok, so here's the deal:
A few months ago, at the beginning of the school year, I was assigned to do a science project sue sometime in February. NOrmally I wouldn't have any trouble with this. I picked out the topic of my experiments, electrolysis of water, and decided to sit on it for a while. Now it comes down to tonight. The project is due tomorrow and I need help (cue degrading laughter). Now, this is a real request, so any input would be welcome. What I need is material. I'm not asking anyone to drive themself to my area to deliver, but I would like ideas. I need something clear that doesn't conduct electricity and can hold water (and I need alot of it). I was thinking 2-liter bottles, but I haven't got any of those around and am in desperate need of help (input on an easier project would also be welcome). So to sum up I either need an idea for a plentiful supply of clear, hard material that I can use to make an electrolysis kit, or I need an idea for a new project. Help!
 
Trip to Home depot for some silicone sealant and acryllic sheets? You can cut the acryllic into 12X12 pieces, build a box and fill it with water.

Just a thought.

AO
 
That would work, except I have no means of getting to Home Depot and don't have enough money to buy that stuff (all of $15 in my wallet).
 
Go to the shops. Buy two, 2 litre *generic fizzy tooth rot* bottles. Pour 'em down the sink and use them.

If you post the questions you're required to answer, I can probably help you in that department - I AM a Masters' level scientist and currently working as a school science technician - but I'm off to bed soon...
 
If you don't mind the travel time and if there's a store like it in your area (hmm... new england?) Tap plastics has sheets you can heat up and bend in the form of a cup or maybe they might have some cups there. Also, try Home Depot(might be lowes in your area) or Orchard supply. If not thoughs head to some place like target, walgreens, longs to see what they have. Be creative with what you have, what's around your house? Maybe cups and a lot of tap to make a long cylinder? Hope that helps and that I'm not too late. BTW, feel free to PM me or email me for help.

Nick
 
@ Famine; I've been asking all my friends for 2-liter bottles and I so far haven't had any luck (although I thought I might need more than just 2 to work...). I have a single bottle in my fridge, but I'm not willing to sacrifice my Coca Cola for science (although it might just come down to me doing that). I'm going to actually need a couple bottles, as I have some diodes that are 4 inches long (I'm testing diode-surface area's affect on the rate of electrolysis). As for questions I don't think I'll have any; as this was supposed to be done from scratch (note, I'm researching water & electrolysis as a potential substitute fuel for the normal engine, which will be next year's project if this goes well). Thanks anyway for the help.

@ VipFREAK; I can't get to a store (and I don't have enough money to get that stuff). Got any ideas for a new project?
 
So are you staying with your current idea which I guess is electrolysis of water or are you trying to find a new project?
 
ok, well... I'm not so technical of a person, but tell me what you want to do... like do you want to set up to look like an hour glass to show the process of electrolysis? I think there's a filter involved right?
 
Well, i guess I'll stick with electrolysis. Hang on a minute, I'm gonna post a diagram of what it should be (no filters involved; I have all the materials except the actual electrolysis kit).
 
You couldn't fill a large bag (for mixed salad, or something) with the water you need?

And don't worry too much about it. Happens to the best of us.
 
Rate of electrolysis should be directly proportional to the square of the electrode's surface area.

A poly bag is a good idea, but watch the electrodes don't physically contact it as it MAY melt. And it could retain a static charge.
 
@ person above Famine (Giancarlo I think...): Well, not really. If I don't have something in 20 minutes I'm gonna make my own out of zip-lock bags and duct tape (alot of work will be needed on my part), but I'd still like suggestions. BTW, here's a diagram of an electrolysis kit:

@ Famine: I'm hoping that's the case (as my idea for a car running off water will be a huge success).
 
What is this supposed to test? If the electricity can travel through the water even if it's inside a non-conducting material?
 
hmm...how about glass jars? u know - old jelly jars or whatever. Seal it off with duct tape and lots of saran wrap or even a few balloons if you don't want to use the saran wrap. Ziplock bags aren't going to work for this at all. If there's too much heat from the current u'll be adding, it'll melt/pop the bag..

A lot of the home depots in the area around me are 24/7 - you *could* go and see if your neighborhood has one like that if you're desparate.
 
Originally posted by Giancarlo
What is this supposed to test? If the electricity can travel through the water even if it's inside a non-conducting material?
Click to expand...

electrolysis is caused by adding an electrical current to water. What electrolysis will do is separate the water into it's 2 components - hydrogen and oxygen. I *think* to figure out which tube contains which gas is to stick a match into it.
 
Originally posted by emad
What electrolysis will do is separate the water into it's 2 components - hydrogen and oxygen.
Click to expand...

Ah, sounds pretty cool. Thanks for pointing it out. 👍
 
Originally posted by emad
electrolysis is caused by adding an electrical current to water. What electrolysis will do is separate the water into it's 2 components - hydrogen and oxygen. I *think* to figure out which tube contains which gas is to stick a match into it.
Click to expand...

Good god don't do that...

Hydrogen ignites quite nastily. Oxygen is similar (the classic laboratory test is that oxygen will relight a glowing splint, hydrogen burns with a "squeaky pop").

Put them together around a lit flame and you're in deep (excrement). One 1 pint milk bottle, filled with 2/3 Hydrogen and 1/3 Oxygen propelled itself 12 feet across a laboratory - producing approximately 0.5ml of water in the process. Imagine the fun you can have with 4 litres of water and the amounts of hydrogen and oxygen that will produce...
 
I'm not really worried about temperature as I will have a fan going on it and will be running it on a fire-retardent surface. Also, I'm trying to test whether the surface area of the diodes affects how much electrolysis happens. The gasses collect in the hollow space above the diodes, and also, the water in the kit shouldn't really be heated to the point of the bags popping (as I'm just going to take a bunch of them, cut them, and use the plastic with duct-tape to keep it together (I have a cardboard box that I'm going to make it in).
 
Originally posted by Famine
Good god don't do that...

Hydrogen ignites quite nastily. Oxygen is similar (the classic laboratory test is that oxygen will relight a glowing splint, hydrogen burns with a "squeaky pop").

Put them together around a lit flame and you're in deep (excrement). One 1 pint milk bottle, filled with 2/3 Hydrogen and 1/3 Oxygen propelled itself 12 feet across a laboratory - producing approximately 0.5ml of water in the process. Imagine the fun you can have with 4 litres of water and the amounts of hydrogen and oxygen that will produce...
Click to expand...

:lol: This is exactly why I'm...

<---


Anyways, have you done a search on electrolysis to get more info too?
 
Originally posted by Jpec07
The gasses collect in the hollow space above the diodes
Click to expand...

They're electrodes. A diode is a device which only allows current to pass one way through it - turn it around and the circuit stops functioning.

Hollow space? The hollow, air-filled space? Into which you're forcing more gases? Remember, gases on average occupy 22.5 times more volume, per mole, than liquids.

1 mole of water - weighing 10g, and therefore occupying 10ml - produces 2 moles of hydrogen - weighing 2g and occupying 450ml - and on mole of oxygen - weighing 8g and occupying 225ml. For every 10ml of water lost, you need 675ml of space for the products to escape into.
 
But, a sealed container, somehow, manages to not compress the air when electrolysis is performed. Somehow the hydrogen and oxygen produce exactly the same volume that the water it came from had taken up (it's true, I ran an electrolysis kit with pins for electrodes for a day on 60V of Direct current and managed to get a sizeable amount of gas that wasn't compressed in any way). BTW, anyone got any duct tape?
 
Originally posted by Jpec07
But, a sealed container, somehow, manages to not compress the air when electrolysis is performed. Somehow the hydrogen and oxygen produce exactly the same volume that the water it came from had taken up (it's true, I ran an electrolysis kit with pins for electrodes for a day on 60V of Direct current and managed to get a sizeable amount of gas that wasn't compressed in any way). BTW, anyone got any duct tape?
Click to expand...

How the hell did you test that? Did you have a pressure meter? Most drinks bottle-type containers will easily withstand 2-3 time atmospheric pressure. Asking a 2 litre bottle to hold 6 litres of gas is not a tough chore - and that's the electrolysis products from 100ml of water.

(think of the Rock-it kits at this point. Not Herbie Hancock - the pump up rockets made from drinks bottles).
 
Originally posted by xAkirax2004
Im the closest to ya!


Ill sene you some! :) ;)
Click to expand...

Actually Der Alta is closer than you are (he's Boston area, you're Portland Area, I'm Worcester area), although thanks for the offer (this makes me wish I had a lisence and a car...).
 
Originally posted by Famine
(think of the Rock-it kits at this point. Not Herbie Hancock - the pump up rockets made from drinks bottles).
Click to expand...

Actually, I have used those before. Indeed, the bottles can stand insane amounts of pressure from the inside (which is why they were my first choice for material).

How do I know that the pressure wasn't high? well, think about it; don't you think that there would be some swelling at the caps on top of the cylinders where the seals were (the kit was formatted just like the one I diagrammed)? There wasn't any kind of swelling and the water level had gone down plenty (not to mention that when I took the seal off it only made the sound of sticky peeling away from plastic...

Remember, gases on average occupy 22.5 times more volume, per mole, than liquids.
Click to expand...

That'd probably explain why it was so cold when I took the seal off...
 

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