I disagree Yamauchi on the latest...

[panchito401]

"CBS: You do not say whether these features in the game or not? (referring to weather and/or time of day)

Yamauchi: We are experimenting with it. I want to stress again that the value of a game does not really depend on how many features are offered, all of which in the final game is available. That does not decide whether a game is good or not. What we focus really is the question of whether the game is good in its entirety or not. We have to proceed somewhat cautiously."

This retort was in reply to a question posed by ComputerBild.de.

I'm gonna have to disagree. The value of the game does depend on how many features are offered, and the degree of realism provided as far as I'm concerned, and if I'm going to blow 24 hours of my life on a game (let alone the last year and 600US bones on a 0day machine), I want it to have these changing features.

(I know none of us has seen the final product of course, I will give him that, and I shouldn't judge until I see a final product).

"It will decide if a game is good or not"

Well, it's going to have to. I will still have my PS3 when GT5 comes out... whenever that is. But if the other camp (I won't mention on this site) will provide me something better, I will have to migrate. This game needs to be released soon, and after waiting this long and paying 2x more for this console in order to play this game, I expect it to have everything the GT series has provided and everything else that fans like myself have yearned for. I spent 600US on hardware, 30US on Prologue, and I will spend the ?70US on GT5. I better get my moneys worth or else I'm totally jumping ship to PC sims.

I'm sorry for the drunken rant, but I am just frustrated with PD and the beauty which I have seen yet I cannot hold.

-f

 

[Jay]

EA is well known for throwing tons of features into games, does this make the games good? Most often not.

 

[Remy Zero]

It will definitely be a step back if GT5 doesn't feature important features like weather changes and day/night.

Look at the likes of Ferrari challenge. Awesome racing in the rain..

 

[panchito401]

EA is well known for throwing tons of features into games, does this make the games good? Most often not.

It may well be, and I am sorry of my ignorance to those games, but I have strictly played GT since the first version and I am not familiar with any of the EA products other than their last F1 game?

What features do they bring to the table that you think should be brought to the GT series? or should be neglected?

 

[Seismica]

To be honest, i don't want a dynamic weather cycle for all races. Or even a dynamic day/night cycle.

I want the 24 hour races to be dynamic, because the chances it is sunny all the way through are... well, impossible, unless it was held at one of the poles on an ice circuit. But for other races, no, its too complex.

I want events to clearly state whether they will be wet/dry or day/night when i enter them. If they are going to implement weather change and night cycles, i hope it:

1) Reflects the weather in the real life location, weather it be real time or just based on the average weather cycle of the region
2) Affects tyre wear. The rain and coldness of the night will affect the way the tyres react and how much grip they give, and hope they can take this into account if the weather changes part way through a race.
3) I hope the AI are prone to making mistakes in the wet.

One of their main problems will be changing the background. All shadows and textures, not just the car and the road, need to be altered as the sun changes position or even goes down. It is easy-ish to get the result on the car right, but on everything, in every track in the game, its one big job. It should be limited to circuits that hold 24 hour races, then it would add to the reality without compromising the release date, for a feature which is pretty much useless in situations other than those longer races.

If they added the feature only for Le Sarthe for the 24 hour race (and other 24 hour races), it would be a nice touch. But if it is taking too long and occupying too much of PDs time which can be spent on other more exciting endeavors, then they should just scrap it and focus on getting a few more tracks/cars in the game and perfecting the sounds for each car.


One last thing: If they cannot implement it right, they should not introduce it at all.

 

[j8mie]

I have to say reading that entry this morning has left me sad. Weather and day/night change are more important than damage imo to the GT series.

I can't see why day/night change can be so hard. Any game with a half decent game engine which uses dynamic lighting can simulate this, so I don't get what all the fuss is about. Is PD and KY being too fussy about how things look in the final game?

I do agree that we only want these features in the longer races as Seismica has already stated, but even in a 20 lap race the weather can change. Take Spa for example. One part of the track can be bone dry, when the rest can be soaked. Same can be said for the Nurburgring as well, so even the shorter races can be effected by weather, but less so by time of day

I suspect this pursuit of near perfection is deny us some great features. Only time will tell I guess.

My biggest fear is that if we don't get weather and day/night in GT5 on it's release, then we'll never get it

 

[gtbillyboy]

Yamauchi is trying hard to not give anything away, but generally I think they are able to model on their development system (PC's), the question is whether they can implement it in the ps3 and have the same quality 1080p, 60fps the lighting model and other features such as damage etc.

I never seem to understand Yamauchi around his statements anyway. A few years ago it was reported that they had a number of damage models/builds they were working on. I recall he even mentioned they have to get the damage right, as a 200mph crash based on their simulation calculations would right off the car and it would be end of game and therefore no fun.

Then at TGS 09, he said they only started on damage in the last 2 months and that what we have seen in the demo is what they have managed to do in 2 months - so this kind of confirms my suspicions, that they have spent 2 months coding it on the ps3.

I'm not sure if weather is a higher priority to damage, or whether when they have the damage done, they will see if they can implement the weather effects. I suspect the physics engine can already simulate weather, however, the visuals probably haven't been implemented, so we shall see if they can do it after damage and still maintain the same quality - or they have done it and he's keeping it secret.

 

[panchito401]

To be honest, i don't want a dynamic weather cycle for all races. Or even a dynamic day/night cycle.

I want the 24 hour races to be dynamic, because the chances it is sunny all the way through are... well, impossible, unless it was held at one of the poles on an ice circuit. But for other races, no, its too complex.

I want events to clearly state whether they will be wet/dry or day/night when i enter them. If they are going to implement weather change and night cycles, i hope it:

1) Reflects the weather in the real life location, weather it be real time or just based on the average weather cycle of the region
2) Affects tyre wear. The rain and coldness of the night will affect the way the tyres react and how much grip they give, and hope they can take this into account if the weather changes part way through a race.
3) I hope the AI are prone to making mistakes in the wet.

One of their main problems will be changing the background. All shadows and textures, not just the car and the road, need to be altered as the sun changes position or even goes down. It is easy-ish to get the result on the car right, but on everything, in every track in the game, its one big job. It should be limited to circuits that hold 24 hour races, then it would add to the reality without compromising the release date, for a feature which is pretty much useless in situations other than those longer races.

If they added the feature only for Le Sarthe for the 24 hour race (and other 24 hour races), it would be a nice touch. But if it is taking too long and occupying too much of PDs time which can be spent on other more exciting endeavors, then they should just scrap it and focus on getting a few more tracks/cars in the game and perfecting the sounds for each car.


One last thing: If they cannot implement it right, they should not introduce it at all.

I totally agree with all of that...

If I can get real time weather updates on my phone, I don't see why a massive project like this shouldn't be able to toss in weather variables for real time online races, whether they are 5 laps or 24 hours with multiple drivers per team (which I hope to see) or changing conditions and daylight sensitive races.

As far as the visual performance is concerned with day/night/day transition, I could give a **** about what happens for the look of all that stuff, a clock would probably do me fine. I think I would be less affected by the visual, and more by the track temperature interfering with tire grip etc. that I would be with backgrounds although that incorporation would definately be a nice touch.

I just think with the amount of time and talent they have working on this project, I expect it all. Maybe i'm expecting too much! I dunno. I just want to play the goddamn game already! (and I'm sure everyone else does as well!)

-f

 

[panchito401]

I have to say reading that entry this morning has left me sad. Weather and day/night change are more important than damage imo to the GT series.

I can't see why day/night change can be so hard. Any game with a half decent game engine which uses dynamic lighting can simulate this, so I don't get what all the fuss is about. Is PD and KY being too fussy about how things look in the final game?

I do agree that we only want these features in the longer races as Seismica has already stated, but even in a 20 lap race the weather can change. Take Spa for example. One part of the track can be bone dry, when the rest can be soaked. Same can be said for the Nurburgring as well, so even the shorter races can be effected by weather, but less so by time of day

I suspect this pursuit of near perfection is deny us some great features. Only time will tell I guess.

My biggest fear is that if we don't get weather and day/night in GT5 on it's release, then we'll never get it

I myself think I could live without the damage features as well. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see it, definately a penalty to people who can't take turn 1 at fuji properly!

But personally, I would rather have to cope with weather/daytime change than damage because I think people who are ****** drivers are going to lose races anyway and the chiefs will prevail on the circuit, regardless of damage.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

The problem with GT, is the races are timed & have on average roughly 3 laps for most of the races.So the duration wouldn't justify weather change for them races, unless PD include it for giggles.That's the beauty of flight sims, it's an unlimited amount of time & can include weather & night changes.Really i want the same weather implementation as Madden 10 ( live weather effects ).Saying that if there are leagues ( which i think there will be, was in previous WRC & Nascar games), the races are usually quite long in the WRC & Nascar + the endurance races in GT mode.Could work in time trial modes & races via arcade mode.

If the short race durations are lengthened somewhat, then these effects would be a more worthwhile choice.

 

[Imari]

I'm gonna have to disagree. The value of the game does depend on how many features are offered, and the degree of realism provided as far as I'm concerned, and if I'm going to blow 24 hours of my life on a game (let alone the last year and 600US bones on a 0day machine), I want it to have these changing features.
-f

How good a game is depends upon how fun it is. Features can add fun, or they can subtract it. Particularly if they're implemented poorly.

How good a simulator is depends upon how realistic it is. While more features are always beneficial, on a system with limited processing power decisions need to be made as to which features contribute the most to the realism.

Gran Turismo is a little of both, game and simulator. But the important point is that more features does not equal better for either.

While weather will probably be an expected feature for GT6, it's not standard among racing games of the current era. It would be nice to have for GT5, but it's not really make or break as far as success for the game goes.

That said, my personal opinion is that I'd love to have at least sunny/rainy and day/night. Rainy night at the Nurburgring, oh my god...

 

[panchito401]

God I hope there are leagues and private races. But I would be looking forward to doing 50 lap races around many of the tracks, especially monaco (thats my ****ing bread and butter) or anywhere else to tell you the truth. I have no problem tossing down 2 hours on a race for fun. I do it every other friday, saturday and sunday morning for F1, and I would do it all the time if it was available in GT whether or not I knew I was getting schooled by GTP fellas.

 

[rsh]

Maybe the interview got lost in translation a bit, but a lot of feautures don't make a good game. Kaz is correct about that one.
But some feautures are a must and do make a good game.

Light and weather make a good game for instance. Looking at the time spent and the power of a PS3 GT5 could become a lauging stock if it will not have weather and light effects.

A 24 hour race at Le Mans and drive it around 15:00 hours for 24 hours.
Or sunrise at Laguna Seca for more then 2,5 hours.
Doens't sound very realistic, does it?

 

[hardvibes]

It will definitely be a step back if GT5 doesn't feature important features like weather changes and day/night.

Look at the likes of Ferrari challenge. Awesome racing in the rain..

The problem is the framerate. I doubt they could mantain 60 fps with weather in GT5. Ferrari Challenge and Supercar Challenge run at 30 fps...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I am just frustrated with PD and the beauty which I have seen yet I cannot hold.

Oh, grow up. You think you're the only one who has to wait for the game? Some of us won't even get to play it at all.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

Rally stage races taking place in snow blizzards & in the night are a part of the WRC, so would be nice to include at least this weather effect.

 

[paulpg87]

ok, i think it's clear that we won't have weather effects. I hope at least they put it for Wrc events (if there are wrc events). I think he's just playing with words, they want ot put it in the game but it's not ready yet so they can't make it in time for march.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

Clearly weather and night effects are available in GT5.

Yamauchi: We are experimenting with it. I want to stress again that the value of a game does not really depend on how many features are offered, all of which in the final game is available.

Sorry i double posted.My guess about this, is PD are deciding between dynamic weather or live weather.We know he seeing how GT5 performs on the PS3, also i guess how the cars react on wet surfaces & i guess other effects.

 

[Seismica]

Light and weather make a good game for instance. Looking at the time spent and the power of a PS3 GT5 could become a lauging stock if it will not have weather and light effects.

What they have implemented already takes up the most graphic memory that the PS3 can handle at 60 FPS. Adding rain will only make the framerate go down, unless they find a way to add rain without increasing stress on the graphics memory (I don't know, maybe reduce the vision range when its raining, that could work). PD are good at squeezing as much power out of a console as possible. But the PS3 presents them with a challenge, how can they keep up 60fps with the stunning visuals and 16 cars per track they are promising, and then add rain and a dynamic engine to the list of features, it will lower the framerate to maybe 45. Considering they are adding a real time damage engine aswell, weather is low on the list of priorities.

They also need windscreen wipers if it rains

 

[marchi]

And again this forum stoops to a new low. Would most of you please grow a pair....

Talking about weather impacting on tyre grip for example. No simulator holds that much detail and the coding needed would be just a waste of time. You won't have it, get over it.

As for whinging about the cost of your console, grow up. People paid a lot more money for their consoles then $600 so shut up. Just pointless whining to draw attention to yourself.

As for "I can get real time weather on my phone", you have to be kidding me if you think they are even related.


Bloody hell, the mind boggles.

 

[Gejost]

Some of you may disagree with Yamauchi on the latest, but i'm sure he disagrees that weather changes and day/night cycle are more imortant than damage.

 

[Seismica]

As for "I can get real time weather on my phone", you have to be kidding me if you think they are even related.

Plus in GT5P it already tells you the temperature and weather of real life track locations

As for weather/temperature impacting on a tyres grip, it would be idiotic not to do that. Tyre temperature is so important. In Formula One they have to regulate the temperature of the tyre and the engine when in the pitlane to within a range of a few degrees to prevent engine and tyre failure.

Like i said, if they don't go into detail in implementing these weather features, or make it solely visual like most games, then the feature is absolutely pointless for a sim and a complete waste of time. Which is the reason why it is not in most simulators because it requires a great deal of effort to implement.

 

[rsh]

And again this forum stoops to a new low. Would most of you please grow a pair....

Talking about weather impacting on tyre grip for example. No simulator holds that much detail and the coding needed would be just a waste of time. You won't have it, get over it.

As for whinging about the cost of your console, grow up. People paid a lot more money for their consoles then $600 so shut up. Just pointless whining to draw attention to yourself.

As for "I can get real time weather on my phone", you have to be kidding me if you think they are even related.


Bloody hell, the mind boggles.

Nonsense. GTR2 had impact of the tires temperature when the weather changed.

As stated above. In the rain it becomes darker, scenery isn't to be seen quite good and therefor rain is easier to implement then with full detail.

 

[Black Chamber]

Rain and night racing are must-have features in Gran Turismo 5.

It will make GT5 only a 75% perfect experience for me if they didn't implement rain and night racing into the code.

 

[Gejost]

Rain and night racing are must-have features in Gran Turismo 5.

It will make GT5 only a 75% perfect experience for me if they didn't implement rain and night racing into the code.

Apparently they are not must have features. If they were they would be implemented for sure.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

Anyone here played Flight Unlimited 3 ?.In this you can generate your own weather or choose preset weather settings ( for the whole flyable areas ), i doubt this will be in GT5 because they would have to make another program for this ( + more loading for the PS3 to do ).

 

[zeromobius]

The way i see it is, if GT wants to seperate itself from the competition then they need to add what others dont have. So far GT has not done anything new other then the damage. That feature however is in most racing game now, its like the norm. GT has been playing catch up and i dont think its going to have anything different then say Forza3.

GT has only a bigger quantity of cars and mabe tracks, but not in features. Where as forza they have the customization, better sounds, AI, and nice online feature. I dont have or own an xbox, but from the looks of it, Forza seems to be ahead of GT in features, at least for now till GT hits. When im talking bout features i mean it in the gameplay sense, not like youtube support and cam support ect. i think those things are gimmicky. So what does GT have over its rivals? idk but not much. I really hope GT exceeds my expectatrions when it releases. its been too long the wait. Im not excpecting anything more then a bigger version of GT4 but with better graphics,online, and damage.

COME ON PD AMAZE US!!!!

 

[Northstar]

I don't really know why people want weather so much. Sure it is realistic but it isn't very fun. I would rather have day/night cycles.

 

[Blitz187]

Anything PD makes is good for me... Ive enjoyed EVERY iteration of GT and I dont think it will be any different this time around... All these people stressing Damage, weather, blah blah blah... I want this, I want that.... Oh Forza has this, blah blah blah. Im going to buy the game regardless and I will enjoy every minute of it even if it has all those "important" features OR not.

 

[paskowitz]

All the people saying weather-day/night cycles are required or massively important features should calm down. In case you can't tell the chances of them being implemented are slim. The PS3 a beast of a machine but even it has limits. You have to step back a realize that you are asking for every feature of every racing game ever made. NO GAME has ever had even close to the list of features GT5 currently has. FM3 is the only game that comes close. Sure GTR2 is full of features but only after years of modding.

If anything day/night is the most plausible because it takes the least resources (on the PS3). The only thing that makes it slightly hard on the console is the increase in dynamic lights and reflections (but there is less FOV), but other than that it is not a big deal. Weather on the other hand takes up a good deal of power. All the rain must be rendered, then the high reflection rain on the track, higher reflection on the cars, rainy windshield, all the spray from each of the 16 cars (the levels of which must be calculated by the speed at which each car is moving) and knowing KY the splatter of rain on surfaces.

The point is that KY does not and will not compromise on 1080p, 60fps, 16 car grids, and the current level of visual fidelity. The reason damage works is that it is mostly a physics calculation and if I am not mistaken the cell absolutely excels at that. If you play GTR2, in the rain, with a 16 car grid vs in the dry there is a noticeable fps increase (from rain to no rain).