I like the rubber banding in this game

  • Thread starter vaioleto
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vaioleto

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So I've finally understood the point of the Rubber Banding in this game. it keeps you on your toes all the time. For the nurburgring example. At first when I was doing 7 minute laps in my car, the AI would be all over me and pass whenever I mess up even a little bit.

But, after much practice and harassment by the cheating AI, I've now gotten a lot better at the Nurbrugring than I ever was. Whereas before I would relax and slack off after I've left the AI in the dust, now I am forced to be familiar with the later sections of the track as well. It's a way for the game to force you to get better. S-rank in this game is basically training mode in preparation for GT5.
It's so blatant and obnoxious. If you do a 7'20 lap of the nurburgring, the AI will do 7'21, but when you do a 6'57 of the ring, the AI will do a 6'59. This all on A difficulty with the same RX-7 LM Race Car. No matter how well you drive, you won't be able to lose the AI.

When you drive fast, magically the AI defy the laws of gravity and take turns at twice the speed a car should and still go through the perfect racing line, when they go off road, they lose no traction and get right back on the track like nothing happened and then get a mighty burst of power to catch up to you in a straight even though you're using the same cars and you're deliberately not giving them any slip stream.

The person at PD needs to remember that this is a sim racer, not an arcade racer. If I drive well, I want to leave the AI well behind, I don't care for the computer that always sticks to me by cheating and pass if I even stray 1 inch onto the grass. It's especially frustrating when you do a perfect lap of the ring, and at the very end, you go onto the grass, and the AI pass right by, proving all your efforts useless, and you know they did it because they were granted the power of god by PD. This is worse than having rewind in game. If GT5 has this, I'll be very disappointed. What's the point of having amazing physics if only 1 driver on the whole track obeys them?

PD needs to release an update and fix this non-sense
 
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vaioleto
It's especially frustrating when you do a perfect lap of the ring, and at the very end, you go onto the grass, and the AI pass right by, proving all your efforts useless, and you know they did it because they were granted the power of god by PD.
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Getting on grass IS NOT perfect. :odd:

Ok, maybe a bit cheeky quoting ;)

I also had such a 'perfect' lap with a BMW 120. After the fast last straight I got onto the grass and was passed by a Nissan Skyline KGC10.

It happens if you don't drive perfectly ;)
 
MarcoM
Getting on grass IS NOT perfect. :odd:

Ok, maybe a bit cheeky quoting ;)

I also had such a 'perfect' lap with a BMW 120. After the fast last straight I got onto the grass and was passed by a Nissan Skyline KGC10.

It happens if you don't drive perfectly ;)
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Still doesn't excuse the AI tail gating you even though you just got 20 seconds faster than the last time you drove with them.

If I got a dollar every time coming out of the the uphill third gear corner and speeding away, only to see the AI also round the corner, and instead of being left behind as it accelerates, pulls right up behind me in the spot of maybe 2 seconds despite the fact that I came out of the bend at least 2 seconds ahead of it, and it was an uphill. Normally that should put even more time between us.
 
Does this happen on any other tracks as well? If it's only at the 'Ring then it might be the slipstream effect.

I don't notice any extreme RBE in my game though, and if there is, I think it can only do good (more close racing).
 
LeGeNd-1
Does this happen on any other tracks as well? If it's only at the 'Ring then it might be the slipstream effect.

I don't notice any extreme RBE in my game though, and if there is, I think it can only do good (more close racing).
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It starts rubber banding on every track after you pass rank C I think. I doubt slip stream would be an issue at 100KPH and an uphill or through most of the corner on the ring when it's impossible for them to get behind you long enough to make use of it. I'd forgive it on tracks like twin ring motegi, but on nurburgring? No, just no.

I wouldn't mind the close racing if this is need for speed or some other arcade game, but Rubber Banding has no place in a simulator. It's about how well you drive, not how intense the battle is, if I wanted that, I'd go race on that super narrow city track.

"Here's super realistic physics, but the AI will get twice as fast if you start leaving them behind, LOL".
 
I raced many times on B & A levels and the AI does not magically caught up to me except if I make a mistake. On Tokyo R246 I can even leave them quite far behind if I have a good lap (+5 seconds or so). And on Tahiti Maze and Grand Canyon the AI is way slower than me, even if I crash a bit in some places. However, I noticed that if I use faster cars (supercars and race cars) the AI becomes MUCH more aggressive and faster. So I think it depends on your car, not the RBE effect itself. Coincidentally, the AI also have an upper hand with fast cars because they can modulate their braking, accelerator and steering (see replay and turn AI's HUD on to see what I mean) while we can't, so that's another factor. Try the same race again, but with slower cars. I bet you'll be able to leave them behind this time.
 
LeGeNd-1
I raced many times on B & A levels and the AI does not magically caught up to me except if I make a mistake. On Tokyo R246 I can even leave them quite far behind if I have a good lap (+5 seconds or so). And on Tahiti Maze and Grand Canyon the AI is way slower than me, even if I crash a bit in some places. However, I noticed that if I use faster cars (supercars and race cars) the AI becomes MUCH more aggressive and faster. So I think it depends on your car, not the RBE effect itself. Coincidentally, the AI also have an upper hand with fast cars because they can modulate their braking, accelerator and steering (see replay and turn AI's HUD on to see what I mean) while we can't, so that's another factor. Try the same race again, but with slower cars. I bet you'll be able to leave them behind this time.
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That might be the case since i've been using a RX-7 LM Race Car. But still, after they pass me, I can catch back up and over take them in 20 seconds max, it's so annoying, if you're SO fast when chasing me, how come you become a bunch of road-blocking turtles after you've passed? Classic RBE BS at work here.
 
^^ That is exactly the same I noticed. Driving a faster car makes races on A and S level more difficult to win.
 
There is definate Rubber Banding in this, and i'm quite annoyed it was implemented
 
I've noticed it. I thought that because it's GT it can't be happening...but this makes sense. I've noticed that the AI are often right behind me, even though my laps often vary by 5 seconds or more. I attributed to the fact that maybe they'd catch up on my poorer corners, but, due to general stupidity, be unable to find a way past, resulting in them riding my tail for much of the race...but I don't think that's true.
 
so maybe the only way to get rid of AI is to nudge them into the gravel bed and then flee... (GRIN) ...But I totally agree that in case you are better or worse than AI then the gap should grow accordingly! At least GT series calls itself real driving simulator...

I guess this is one further aspekt of the game where people are not content with.
I know it is always question of preferences..BUT in my oppinion PD should focus much more on stuff like this thread's title, damage model, online lobbies, car sound etc than being so overstated in perfectionism of modelling the cars...

p.s.: If you find any typing errors you can keep them LOL / remember I am not a native english speaker...But I do my best to be understandable!
 
Nauraushaun
I've noticed it. I thought that because it's GT it can't be happening...but this makes sense. I've noticed that the AI are often right behind me, even though my laps often vary by 5 seconds or more. I attributed to the fact that maybe they'd catch up on my poorer corners, but, due to general stupidity, be unable to find a way past, resulting in them riding my tail for much of the race...but I don't think that's true.
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I drove on the nurburgring without ever looking in my rear view mirror, and was at least 25 seconds ahead of my usual 7'11 run and when I looked behind me on the final straight, there they were, the three cheating stooges. You can tell that they're not catching up on your slower corners by seeing how they accelerate out of the corners, it's like they never braked at all.

Usually if you lead into a corner, they'll get right on your tail in the middle of the corner, but then since you accelerate sooner than them, they'll get left behind at the exit of the corner, not in this game, it's like they latch onto your with a rope.

so maybe the only way to get rid of AI is to nudge them into the gravel bed and then flee
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The few times when I got fed up and ran the guy into the gravel for blocking my way, it's like they're still on tarmac and they out of the sand at racing speeds and lose no traction either.

I don't understand how GT5P would have no rubber band effect and realistic AIs while this game suddenly does. Maybe it's not rubber band effect, it's just the game attempting to copy some of your moves so it saves some resources on processing since the PSP isn't the most powerful thing ever... just a theory though.
 
vaioleto
It's so blatant and obnoxious. If you do a 7'20 lap of the nurburgring, the AI will do 7'21, but when you do a 6'57 of the ring, the AI will do a 6'59.
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Oh, I was REALLY hoping that PD would get over this crap or at least make it optional. I don't intend to get the PSP version, but this really dampens my enthusiasm for GT5.
 
Duke
Oh, I was REALLY hoping that PD would get over this crap or at least make it optional. I don't intend to get the PSP version, but this really dampens my enthusiasm for GT5.
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It's not in GT4, GT5P... both of those had realistic AIs that get left behind, it's just the PSP that's really bad for it.

Like someone said, maybe some guy at PD thought the notion of a party game means the game should be more arcady, but I wish they'd turn it off if you're using pro physics, which they don't. If GT5 has this, it'll be a major setback for the home console GTs. I can remember GT3 having it, but not since.
 
i think they felt the need to do it because of the fact car fields are only 4 cars, so they felt they needed to implement the RB into it to keep it competative, makes sense non?
 
I was doing a 2 lap race at La Sarthe and the AI were all over me, never more than 2 seconds back for most of the first lap. I spun off at the Porsche curves, lost 7 seconds, caught them back up by the Dunlop chicane, passed them just before the Mulsanne, yet they then stayed never more than 2 seconds back.

Maybe PD did so much with the graphics, they couldn't do AI properly* and just had to fudge them.


* Not that PD have ever been able to do AI properly...
 
daan
I was doing a 2 lap race at La Sarthe and the AI were all over me, never more than 2 seconds back for most of the first lap. I spun off at the Porsche curves, lost 7 seconds, caught them back up by the Dunlop chicane, passed them just before the Mulsanne, yet they then stayed never more than 2 seconds back.

Maybe PD did so much with the graphics, they couldn't do AI properly* and just had to fudge them.


* Not that PD have ever been able to do AI properly...
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Actually that's something else, it's ridiculously easy to catch them up again even on S, it seems the rubber banding is still implemented working both ways atleast.

Really easy to tell on the same manufactuer races
 
Kinetic
i think they felt the need to do it because of the fact car fields are only 4 cars, so they felt they needed to implement the RB into it to keep it competative, makes sense non?
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that's like saying real racing should allow cheating and corner cutting for the people not in first place, it doesn't make any sense. lol

I actually think the AI's improved. Now they can dodge pretty quickly if you're in their path and actually brake if you cut them off instead of ramming into you like before.

This rubber banding probably doesn't have so much to do with the AI as PD's misguided attempt at keeping the game "fun". A benefit of this, however, is that it keeps you focused for the entire race and when GT5 comes without rubber bands, you'll be so much more superior to the rest of the field because you were conditioned to race hard for the entire race and not up to the point where you create a decent margin between you and second place. It kind of forces you to perfect corners, especially the later ones on a track, where you just muddled through and never got good at before because by that time you already had a good lead.
 
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Vaileto, your talking like i defended it, i just gave the reasoning for it.

Like i stated before they obviously only implemented it to keep the game sharp in the small 4 car fields
 
Kinetic
Vaileto, your talking like i defended it, i just gave the reasoning for it.

Like i stated before they obviously only implemented it to keep the game sharp in the small 4 car fields
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I know, I was just pointing out the folly of PD's ways if that was their reasoning.

Hopefully Kaz reads this and decides to release an update to eliminate this or at least give the option to turn it on or off.
 
They wont ever update it I don't think, if it's a download they then alienate people without large memory cards, just can't see it happening.
 
Thats why there are difficult levels I would assume. Its a spin off type GT title so i would not hold it against them. I don't mind it but I dont think we should bash PD for it, they knew what they were doing when the designed the game. But I would not pass up on the game just because of that. Its not a full new GT game, GT5 will be that game.

Its still fun even if you have to be perfect on the the harder levels.

Kinetic
They wont ever update it I don't think, if it's a download they then alienate people without large memory cards, just can't see it happening.
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2GB MS's are as cheap as $6, anyone with less than a 1GB needs to get with the times :).... Amazon has 4GB sticks for $15. So.... that would not be an issue.
 
Actually, I had a somewhat different, but related, issue a couple days ago.

I was driving the original Silvia CSP311 on Laguna Seca, and was up against several modern compacts - I remember a CRX and an A-Klasse being two of them. I took the lead on the second lap, and kept it all the way up to turn six of the fifth lap. Suddenly, as I came around the corner totally normally, the A-Klasse blew past me, and ran away from me on the Rahal Straight, and continued to pull away until it had a three-second lead by the finish line. Needless to say, I was close to chucking my PSP out the window! No mistakes, lap time was on par with my other laps, absolutely no reason for losing except that the Benz's performance increased substantially in the second half of the last lap, for no apparent reason.

I've also found that the game likes to match you against cars with more straight line speed on tracks with a lot of straights; R246 is often impossible in a classic car, as the rubber-banding keeps the AI close enough in the corners that they can power past on the straights.
 
Kinetic
They wont ever update it I don't think, if it's a download they then alienate people without large memory cards, just can't see it happening.
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Patches are usually a lot smaller than the full game. Disabling rubberbanding may be a matter of just a few bytes.

But I doubt they'll release a patch unless there are really serious issues with the game. I've noticed a few small bugs and annoyances, but none real big.
 
Tsukuba or whatever that track is the AI does the last turn TOO perfect and I just understeer my way to going from 1st the 3rd on the last lap on B, A and S its crazy hard at times.
 
Boost effect is on weak by default in AD-HOC mode. The host has to switch it off. I don't know if it defaults to it again in your next session or if the game remembers the preferred setting of "off".
 
FLASH48
Does anybody know, if RBE is on when racing AD- HOC? To me it doesn't seem so, but that is just me!
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It is. I have 2 PSPs (old 1000 and new Go) and I was doing some ad hoc races yesterday to farm cash. I was on the test track shuffle racing an R390 against an F2007. Both PSPs were set to AI. The R390 tops out at around 230ish mph while the F2007 maxes out at 218 mph. The weird thing is that both cars were dead matched for speed on the straightaways despite the speedometers indicating otherwise. They were also turning identical lap times despite the 10+ mph difference. Anybody else noticed this?

Now, while I don't condone the rubberbanding I can understand it. This is afterall a portable title intended to provide a great racing experience on the go. This game does precisely that, so I can't complain too much. Ideally, however, this should have been offered as a game mode or setting option. I strongly doubt GT5 will be significantly different than previous GTs in this regard, but perhaps there will be an "arcade" option with rubber band AI.
 
I suspect the boost effect works the same as in GT5P; it also slows you down a bit if you're ahead. Anybody can confirm this too? I noticed my laptimes were about 4-5 seconds slower on higher AI levels than on lower. (May still be my crappy driving, but I suspect otherwise ;)).
 

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