I thin I found a way to fix (?) GTS's tire model, at least regarding standing still launches

  • Thread starter Thread starter barkohba
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barkohba
I'm not 100% sure, but i think the "tire model" issue might actually have more to do with the LSD standard settings in GTS. I took over the LSD settings from AC to GTS on the McLaren 650s GT3 (Initial: 5 (AC) vs 10 (GTS), Breaking: 55 vs 20, Accelerating: 60 vs 40), and doing a standing start I found the 650s GT3 MUCH more manageable and behaving very similarly to AC.

Go ahead, give it a go and tell me what you experience. If you have AC, try copying the LSD levels from AC over to their counterpart in GTS and (possibly) be surprised.
 
It's times like these when I wish I have AC :(

I can highly recommend it. It is very cheap at the moment and there would be second hand discs floating around the stores.

The perfect game would be: The graphics and online of GT Sport, the physics and tuning of Assetto Corsa and the cars and tracks from PCARS2 (including the proper Rally Cross tracks). Sigh................ if only.
 
It has nothing to do with LSD.

But fine, prove me wrong, provide a video doing 0-100 kph with some high powered car on stock tyres (or Sport Soft at best).
 
If you're having to put 180 degrees of steering angle to keep a car straight, that's going <5 mph, your physics have gone wrong. Changing the LSD values by fractional amounts absolutely won't change that.
 
initial - the amount of preload applied to the LSD...
accel - the amount the left and right tires "lock" together under acceleration
decel - the amount the left and right tires "lock" together under deceleration.

Initial;
The lower the number the more "soft/progressive" the LSD activates, the higher the number the more "instantly/aggressively" the LSD activates..
Under deceleration, set it low and the diff will work well under trail braking, set it high and the diff has more "activation" under deceleration.
Under throttle application, set it low and the diff will activate in a mild manner... set it high and it engages the diff early/instantly.
Always remember that you want the diff to be active (assuming you have accel and decel dialed in) with minimal throttle/deceleration/brake.
Lower numbers will be more mild mannered/predictable, higher numbers will be more aggressive, suiting a tail-out, or driving with the throttle style.

First off, 5 vs 60 in the settings is a ratio of allowable slip within the diff.
5 allows much slip, 60 a lows essentially no slip... "60" should really be 100 to represent 100% lock across the driven axle.
This "lock" is not relative to the pavement, this is relative to the slip across the driven axle (t-case).
While it can enhance/reduce traction is is not a form of managed traction control, it is purely controlling slip ratio from the left to right... or in the form of a t-case front to rear.

Accel;
In a straight line you want this set to the max... essentially locking the left and right tires together ensuring that they both spin at the same speed, providing equal power to both tires...
but...
the higher the value, the more the car will push the front during throttle (provided it is not overpowering the tires), on corner exit... it will invoke understeer. With a high setting, the left and right tires are "locked" together and as such they want to go straight.
If the car has enough power to overcome traction, it's a recipe for oversteer city... at the snap of a finger.
The lower the value the more it will allow the inside tire (unweighted) to spin relative to the outside tire (weighted).
This provides more efficient cornering (as the left and right tires are traveling different -differential- distances), but, will allow slip across the diff and let the inside tire spin a little before distributing power across the axle to the weighted tire... the one with traction.
Set the value too low, and the car will corner very stable, but will suffer for "drive-off" with the inside tire spinning to much relative to the outside/weighted tire. But it will be stable on power out of a corner.

Decel works much the same, but replace corner exit with corner entry...
In a straight line you want the axle locked up (60) to create stability, however as you turn-in, the driven axle will still want to go straight... causing turn-in and especially lift-off oversteer(rwd) or lift off understeer(fwd)... not good with a car that excels under trail braking, or on a track that requires trail braking.
It can also cause some really odd dynamics if you "snap" off the brake vs gently releasing it... dependent upon your "initial" value will effect just how dramatic.

Accel and decel are independent of one another.
Accel and decel are 100% manipulated through initial.

The settings in AC are a perfect recipe for a tail happy car... be it on turn in easing off the brake or on corner exit applying throttle. Yes, it should work good in a straight line.
The settings in GTS are decent for a car that needs to trail brake and roll the throttle down on corner exit... while not optimal, better for actually racing than AC's settings.

Ideally you want initial set low so the diff is active yet progressive pretty much always... but, you then must have accel and decel dialed darn near perfect.
The less dialed in accel and decel are, the more you may want to delay diff activation by decreasing the TQ required to make it function.

Now...
All of this is directly related to chassis roll, tire selection and engine power delivery characteristics...
Enjoy.
 
Last edited:
initial - the amount of TQ required to activate the LSD... important to note this actually works in reverse as it relates to the "number".
accel - the amount the left and right tires "lock" together under acceleration
decel - the amount the left and right tires "lock" together under deceleration.

Initial;
the lower the value, the less TQ it takes to activate the accel and decel settings.
Set it low and the diff will work well under deceleration, set it high and the diff has less "activation" under deceleration.
Set it low and the diff will activate under slight throttle application... set it high and it takes much more TQ/throttle to activate the diff.
Always remember that you want the diff to be active (assuming you have accel and decel dialed in) with minimal throttle/deceleration/brake.

First off, 5 vs 60 in the settings is a ratio of allowable slip within the diff.
5 allows much slip, 60 a lows essentially no slip... "60" should really be 100 to represent 100% lock across the driven axle.
This "lock" is not relative to the pavement, this is relative to the slip across the driven axle (t-case).
While it can enhance/reduce traction is is not a form of managed traction control, it is purely controlling slip ratio from the left to right... or in the form of a t-case front to rear.

Accel;
In a straight line you want this set to the max... essentially locking the left and right tires together ensuring that they both spin at the same speed, providing equal power to both tires...
but...
the higher the value, the more the car will push the front during throttle (provided it is not overpowering the tires), on corner exit... it will invoke understeer. With a high setting, the left and right tires are "locked" together and as such they want to go straight.
If the car has enough power to overcome traction, it's a recipe for oversteer city... at the snap of a finger.
The lower the value the more it will allow the inside tire (unweighted) to spin relative to the outside tire (weighted).
This provides more efficient cornering (as the left and right tires are traveling different -differential- distances), but, will allow slip across the diff and let the inside tire spin a little before distributing power across the axle to the weighted tire... the one with traction.
Set the value too low, and the car will corner very stable, but will suffer for "drive-off" with the inside tire spinning to much relative to the outside/weighted tire. But it will be stable on power out of a corner.

Decel works much the same, but replace corner exit with corner entry...
In a straight line you want the axle locked up (60) to create stability, however as you turn-in, the driven axle will still want to go straight... causing turn-in and especially lift-off oversteer(rwd) or lift off understeer(fwd)... not good with a car that excels under trail braking, or on a track that requires trail braking.
It can also cause some really odd dynamics if you "snap" off the brake vs gently releasing it... dependent upon your "initial" value will effect just how dramatic.

Accel and decel are independent of one another.
Accel and decel are 100% manipulated through initial.

The settings in AC are a perfect recipe for a tail happy car... be it on turn in easing off the brake or on corner exit applying throttle. Yes, it should work good in a straight line.
The settings in GTS are decent for a car that needs to trail brake and roll the throttle down on corner exit... while not optimal, better for actually racing than AC's settings.

Ideally you want initial set low so the diff is active pretty much always... but, you then must have accel and decel dialed darn near perfect.
The less dialed in accel and decel are, the more you may want to delay diff activation by increasing the TQ required to make it function.

Now...
All of this is directly related to chassis roll, tire selection and engine power delivery characteristics...
Enjoy.

Damn!! First time someone really explaned LSD right. Thank You Captain!!
 
initial - the amount of TQ required to activate the LSD... important to note this actually works in reverse as it relates to the "number".
accel - the amount the left and right tires "lock" together under acceleration
decel - the amount the left and right tires "lock" together under deceleration.

Initial;
the lower the value, the less TQ it takes to activate the accel and decel settings.
Set it low and the diff will work well under deceleration, set it high and the diff has less "activation" under deceleration.
Set it low and the diff will activate under slight throttle application... set it high and it takes much more TQ/throttle to activate the diff.
Always remember that you want the diff to be active (assuming you have accel and decel dialed in) with minimal throttle/deceleration/brake.

First off, 5 vs 60 in the settings is a ratio of allowable slip within the diff.
5 allows much slip, 60 a lows essentially no slip... "60" should really be 100 to represent 100% lock across the driven axle.
This "lock" is not relative to the pavement, this is relative to the slip across the driven axle (t-case).
While it can enhance/reduce traction is is not a form of managed traction control, it is purely controlling slip ratio from the left to right... or in the form of a t-case front to rear.

Accel;
In a straight line you want this set to the max... essentially locking the left and right tires together ensuring that they both spin at the same speed, providing equal power to both tires...
but...
the higher the value, the more the car will push the front during throttle (provided it is not overpowering the tires), on corner exit... it will invoke understeer. With a high setting, the left and right tires are "locked" together and as such they want to go straight.
If the car has enough power to overcome traction, it's a recipe for oversteer city... at the snap of a finger.
The lower the value the more it will allow the inside tire (unweighted) to spin relative to the outside tire (weighted).
This provides more efficient cornering (as the left and right tires are traveling different -differential- distances), but, will allow slip across the diff and let the inside tire spin a little before distributing power across the axle to the weighted tire... the one with traction.
Set the value too low, and the car will corner very stable, but will suffer for "drive-off" with the inside tire spinning to much relative to the outside/weighted tire. But it will be stable on power out of a corner.

Decel works much the same, but replace corner exit with corner entry...
In a straight line you want the axle locked up (60) to create stability, however as you turn-in, the driven axle will still want to go straight... causing turn-in and especially lift-off oversteer(rwd) or lift off understeer(fwd)... not good with a car that excels under trail braking, or on a track that requires trail braking.
It can also cause some really odd dynamics if you "snap" off the brake vs gently releasing it... dependent upon your "initial" value will effect just how dramatic.

Accel and decel are independent of one another.
Accel and decel are 100% manipulated through initial.

The settings in AC are a perfect recipe for a tail happy car... be it on turn in easing off the brake or on corner exit applying throttle. Yes, it should work good in a straight line.
The settings in GTS are decent for a car that needs to trail brake and roll the throttle down on corner exit... while not optimal, better for actually racing than AC's settings.

Ideally you want initial set low so the diff is active pretty much always... but, you then must have accel and decel dialed darn near perfect.
The less dialed in accel and decel are, the more you may want to delay diff activation by increasing the TQ required to make it function.

Now...
All of this is directly related to chassis roll, tire selection and engine power delivery characteristics...
Enjoy.

Great explanation! I would have kept it much shorter, like when driving a 4wd car adjust front diff to about half of what rear diff settings are so it doesnt push like a Mack truck:lol::lol:
 
It's times like these when I wish I have AC :(

I have it!! Complete..on PS4 and PC!!! :p

I can highly recommend it. It is very cheap at the moment and there would be second hand discs floating around the stores.

The perfect game would be: The graphics and online of GT Sport, the physics and tuning of Assetto Corsa and the cars and tracks from PCARS2 (including the proper Rally Cross tracks). Sigh................ if only.


Or then... simply AC.. on PC!!! WITH SO MANY MODS THERE ARE... I have it on Pc..
Where with the Mods being shared and created by a large group of users you have access to almost any car and any track! Inclusively there are mods for weather changing conditions... and theres a racing online system almost like iracing...
 
the lower the value, the less TQ it takes to activate the accel and decel settings.
I'm pretty sure that's wrong. It's called "Initial Torque" and it's the amount of preload on the system. Meaning it takes less extra torque to activate the system.

TLDR; High Initial Torque means the diff is much more sensitive, less Initial Torque means it will take more throttle to activate.
 
Damn!! First time someone really explaned LSD right. Thank You Captain!!
Great explanation! I would have kept it much shorter, like when driving a 4wd car adjust front diff to about half of what rear diff settings are so it doesnt push like a Mack truck:lol::lol:
Thanks guys...
Yep, kinda long, and could be a lot longer right? :).
4wd... I did not want to get into the center diff and how it effects front-rear behaviour(s)... imagine how long it would be then.

I'm pretty sure that's wrong. It's called "Initial Torque" and it's the amount of preload on the system. Meaning it takes less extra torque to activate the system.

TLDR; High Initial Torque means the diff is much more sensitive, less Initial Torque means it will take more throttle to activate.
Yep, was thinking about my wording on that last night after I posted, you are correct.
The lower the number the more "soft" the LSD activates, the higher the number the more "instantly" the LSD activates...
I'll edit.
 
Yeah your explanation is better.

It's a lot like suspension preload I think now I'm thinking about it.
High preload makes it harsh, it won't compress at all under small load for example.
Lower preload makes the suspension able to make very subtle movements even under light load.
It makes sense in my head anyway :D .
 
@GTWelsh
agree'd, there is a couple of ways to interpret "initial".
I've edited the original... let me know if it makes more sense now.
I think both explanations were getting the point across... terminology was poor.
 
I can highly recommend it. It is very cheap at the moment and there would be second hand discs floating around the stores.

The perfect game would be: The graphics and online of GT Sport, the physics and tuning of Assetto Corsa and the cars and tracks from PCARS2 (including the proper Rally Cross tracks). Sigh................ if only.

...And some original tracks from GTS as well, like LaggobMaggiore, Dragon Trail
If you're having to put 180 degrees of steering angle to keep a car straight, that's going <5 mph, your physics have gone wrong. Changing the LSD values by fractional amounts absolutely won't change that.

There must be smth very wrong withyour wheel and pedals mate. Not even in the ac cobra, with no aids and no lsd, i dont need to keep the wheel nowhere near 180 degrees at nowhere close to a speed low as 5 kph to keep it straight. Recalibrate your gear and try again.
 
It has nothing to do with LSD.

But fine, prove me wrong, provide a video doing 0-100 kph with some high powered car on stock tyres (or Sport Soft at best).

I definitely dont need to prove you wrong. I just shared some settings. Yoy can easily try the 650s gt3 with standard lsd vs the settings provided and do a standing start.
 
I'm not 100% sure, but i think the "tire model" issue might actually have more to do with the LSD standard settings in GTS. I took over the LSD settings from AC to GTS on the McLaren 650s GT3 (Initial: 5 (AC) vs 10 (GTS), Breaking: 55 vs 20, Accelerating: 60 vs 40), and doing a standing start I found the 650s GT3 MUCH more manageable and behaving very similarly to AC.

Go ahead, give it a go and tell me what you experience. If you have AC, try copying the LSD levels from AC over to their counterpart in GTS and (possibly) be surprised.

Hi
there is a big glitch in sport mode for a while the guys of the top 10 usually in sport mode uses the grip of the soft tire and does not play with the hard tire and he thinks fast what a joke when you meet them in the lobby when you have them same tire as they and that they can not escape.
 
Hi
there is a big glitch in sport mode for a while the guys of the top 10 usually in sport mode uses the grip of the soft tire and does not play with the hard tire and he thinks fast what a joke when you meet them in the lobby when you have them same tire as they and that they can not escape.
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