I tried AC and got faster lap with P1 and MP4-12c gt3 than F1 GTR.How is it possible?

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MclarenGT

MclarenGT

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In real life a mclaren f1 gtr is both faster than P1 and an MP4-12c gt3.But surprisingly in AC it is slower than both even the fastest laps for gtr is slower than both.In monza it did 1:43(IRL) with 2 chicanes(at that time track had 2 chicanes) but in AC fastest ever lap is 1:48 at monza.
At spa in older configuration it did 2:17(IRL) and it was in slower configuration then it is equivalent to 2:12 on modern spa IRL.
Refer this site for track configurations
http://www.racingcircuits.info/europe/italy/monza.html#.VgwGLcrhntQ
http://www.racingcircuits.info/europe/belgium/spa-francorchamps.html#.VgwGVsrhntQ

A 2002 F1 which is on an average 5s faster than modern F1 laps spa in that configuration in same time as modern F1.

I got fastest lap times for gt3 car and f1 gtr from this site.P1 lap times are too fast for real life.
These are lap time comparision for fastest gt3 car vs f1 gtr in same configuration taken from.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/races.html
Track Fastest GT3 lap F1 GTR Lap
Zhuhai 1;34.461 1:31.886
Jarama 1:33.213 1:30.053
Le mans 3:59.242 3:48.264
Anderstorp 1:34.785 1:28.408
Curitiba 1:16.735 1:15.750
Silverstone(pre2010) 1:49.493 1:44.944
Laguna Seca 1:20.533 1:26.695
Mugello 1:47.890 1:45.790

My P1 lap times are way faster than both I did 6:20 at nurburgring with it.Don't get me wrong AC is a good simulator.I just wanted to point out that F1 GTR is slower than in real life and P1 and GT3 are faster than in real life.

What do you think?
 
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Comparisons of lap times you achieve in a video game and the times one gets in real life are always limping a little behind as there are too many different variables that are sometimes vastly different.

So I think you shouldn't really care too much about all of this and just enjoy the game :)
 
I'm sure the difference is purely tyres. As in what is simulated for each car.

The P1 on slicks is a scary fast thing, of course. With that much power it is bound to be.
 
skazz
I'm sure the difference is purely tyres. As in what is simulated for each car.

The P1 on slicks is a scary fast thing, of course. With that much power it is bound to be.
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Yes it is but it was slower than roadlegal F1 GTR LT(47.52s) on goodwood(P1 laptime 53s).So even on slicks it won't beat an F1 GTR 96(road legal version may do 50s in goodwood).

And F1 GTR will not be beaten by MP4-12c GT3 car.An F1 GTR(and LM) Short tail produces enough downforce to run upside down at 100mph that is equal to 1ton of downforce according to motortrend.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/112_0004_2000_mclaren_f1_supercar/viewall.html
A P1 only produces 600kg downforce at 150mph and standard F1 produces 650kg downforce est at 182mph in high downforce mode.

In AC F1 GTR nowhere produces downforce near that even in high downforce configuration.
 
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MclarenGT
Yes it is but it was slower than roadlegal F1 GTR LT(47.52s) on goodwood(P1 laptime 53s).So even on slicks it won't beat an F1 GTR 96(road legal version may do 50s in goodwood).

And F1 GTR will not be beaten by MP4-12c GT3 car.An F1 GTR(and LM) Short tail produces enough downforce to run upside down at 100mph that is equal to 1ton of downforce according to motortrend.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/112_0004_2000_mclaren_f1_supercar/viewall.html
A P1 only produces 600kg downforce at 150mph and standard F1 produces 650kg downforce est at 182mph in high downforce mode.

In AC F1 GTR nowhere produces downforce near that even in high downforce configuration.
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It's a very OLD car. It doesn't have TCS or ABS. These things give drivers loads of confidence in the real world, make cars much easier to driver in the sim world, and GT3 cars lap the 'Ring very very quickly indeed mate. They are at top end of Group C levels speed wise (Bellof excepted)
 
Tired Tyres
It's a very OLD car. It doesn't have TCS or ABS. These things give drivers loads of confidence in the real world, make cars much easier to driver in the sim world, and GT3 cars lap the 'Ring very very quickly indeed mate. They are at top end of Group C levels speed wise (Bellof excepted)
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Yes,GT3 cars are very quick in the ring(around mid 6:30's) and yes F1 GTR does not have any aids but the laptimes of F1 GTR are faster than GT3 cars isn't it.I have put the fastest laptimes of fastest GT3 car vs F1 GTR in same configuration F1 GTR was faster on each and every track.I think it will do around 6:20 in the ring if it was raced.

An F40 LM was even faster in terms of laptimes.

The GTR was on par with the LMP's of its time which were as quick as Group C cars at le mans with chicanes.

And aids don't give faster lap,it just allows an average driver to keep up with pro drivers.
 
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The F1 GTR was not as fast as the LMP's of the day mate. Not even close. At Le Mans it was the rain, reliability and driver crashes causing delays to the LMP field that allowed the F1 to win.

As for driver aids. They do make you faster. It's confidence that is the key to speed.
 
Assetto Corsa world best lap times Spa Francorchamps

McLaren F1 GTR: 2:21.920
McLaren P1: 2:12.481
McLaren 12C GT3: 2:15.887

Maybe the F1 is slower because AC simulates it on 90's semi-slicks where as the P1 is simulated on modern street tyres and the 12C is on modern racing slicks.

Also, someone has done Spa in a 2:05.930 in a 787B so there's no way a McLaren F1 GTR can keep up with a Group C car.
 
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MclarenGT
Yes it was close to an lmp of its time.Have a look at the fastest laptimes set by them
http://www.racingsportscars.com/results/qualifying2/Le_Mans-1996-06-16.html
An LMP of its time did 3:46 and F1 GTR did 3:48 only 2s slower.

And it did 338 laps whereas GT3 car did 337 laps at best.

It is surely faster than a GT3 at least in most of the track.
@Tired Tyres
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I watched that race mate. You are wrong. One lap pace means nothing. Race pace is what counts. End of. Watch a video of the race.
 
@daan
Group C car has done 3:15.04 at lemans but it was without chicanes and was stopped after that season.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/results/qualifying/Le_Mans-1989-06-11.html
@
JASON_ROCKS1998
I think Group C(sauber C11) has done spa in 1:59 in older slower configuration and spa is a highspeed track .
http://www.racingsportscars.com/results/laps/Spa-1990-06-03.html
So it is safe to assume that 90's slick are less grippier than they are in the game.


@Tired Tyres It finished 4th in that race.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans
By the way these are the links I used for fastest lap of the race for GT3 vs F1 GTR 96
Anderstorp
http://www.racingsportscars.com/results/laps/Anderstorp-1996-07-14.html
http://www.racingsportscars.com/results/laps/Anderstorp-2013-08-17-24749.html
Zhuhai
http://www.racingsportscars.com/results/laps/Zhuhai-1996-11-03.html
http://www.racingsportscars.com/results/laps/Zhuhai-2013-10-13.html
Jarama
http://www.racingsportscars.com/results/laps/Jarama-1996-04-14.html
http://www.racingsportscars.com/results/laps/Jarama-2012-10-28.html
These are the only tracks I could find in same configuration except lemans.
I found fastest laps in the game here
http://www.radiators-champ.com/RSRLiveTiming/index.php?page=rank&track=20&car=60

Maybe I am just over thinking about it and should start enjoying it.Afterall it is just a videogame and there may be some variations from real life and lap times may be faster or slower.Only thing I wanted was to fix poor handling of old race cars.I hope that they will fix it.
 
MclarenGT
Maybe I am just over thinking about it and should start enjoying it.Afterall it is just a videogame and there may be some variations from real life and lap times may be faster or slower.
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Yes, thank you, said it in the very first post!

/thread
 
Using RSC I have worked out the lap times of a modern GT3 car, a Group C car AND a McLaren F1 GTR in racing spec

McLaren F1 GTR Gulf Racing 1996: 2:17.481
Audi R8 LMS Phoenix Racing 2010: 2:22.807
Sauber Mercedes C9 Team Sauber 1989: 2:05.900

So, while an F1 GTR is faster than a 2010 GT3 car (I don't know how much faster GT3 cars have gotten in the last 5 years), it is still far slower than a Group C racing car from over 5 years prior.

Obviously these Qualifying sessions were taken place at different years with different track conditions and probably different track layouts as Spa probably changed a bit from 1989 to 2010.
 
JASON_ROCKS1998
Using RSC I have worked out the lap times of a modern GT3 car, a Group C car AND a McLaren F1 GTR in racing spec

McLaren F1 GTR Gulf Racing 1996: 2:17.481
Audi R8 LMS Phoenix Racing 2010: 2:22.807
Sauber Mercedes C9 Team Sauber 1989: 2:05.900

So, while an F1 GTR is faster than a 2010 GT3 car (I don't know how much faster GT3 cars have gotten in the last 5 years), it is still far slower than a Group C racing car from over 5 years prior.

Obviously these Qualifying sessions were taken place at different years with different track conditions and probably different track layouts as Spa probably changed a bit from 1989 to 2010.
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But spa was in different configuration then.A sauber c11 had done 1:59 in 1990 from RSC.

It was in 5s slower configuration then in my opinion but it can vary.
In 2002 fastest lap for australian gp was 1:25.823 both during qualifying
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Australian_Grand_Prix
In 2014 1:32.478 in same configuration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Australian_Grand_Prix
But in spa 2002 F1 did 1:47.176 and 2014 F1 did 1:50.511.The 3s slow lap is just the impression I get by comparing 2002F1 to 2014F1.

But I never said that F1 GTR will beat a Group C car,I only said it will beat a GT3 car.
 
MclarenGT
But spa was in different configuration then.A sauber c11 had done 1:59 in 1990 from RSC.

It was in 5s slower configuration then in my opinion but it can vary.
In 2002 fastest lap for australian gp was 1:25.823 both during qualifying
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Australian_Grand_Prix
In 2014 1:32.478 in same configuration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Australian_Grand_Prix
But in spa 2002 F1 did 1:47.176 and 2014 F1 did 1:50.511.The 3s slow lap is just the impression I get by comparing 2002F1 to 2014F1.

But I never said that F1 GTR will beat a Group C car,I only said it will beat a GT3 car.
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You said the F1 GTR was as fast as a Group C car.
MclarenGT
The GTR was on par with the LMP's of its time which were as quick as Group C cars at le mans with chicanes.
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Which it is not. Don't forget that Group C cars had upwards of 600HP in race spec (some had over 700HP without the restrictors) and weighed under 1000KG and a Sauber C9 hit 249MPH at LeMans in 1989.
 
JASON_ROCKS1998
You said the F1 GTR was as fast as a Group C car.


Which it is not. Don't forget that Group C cars had upwards of 600HP in race spec (some had over 700HP without the restrictors) and weighed under 1000KG and a Sauber C9 hit 249MPH at LeMans in 1989.
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If I said that sorry,I meant to say that it was close to an LMP not faster than it by saying it ws on par with it. But an LMP of that time did 3:40s at le mans while group c C9 can do 3:24 with chicanes at best.I know a Sauber C9 had 800bhp and 850kg weight.

And 249mph you stated was done on le mans circuit without chicane which was introduced in 1990.A modern LMP can lap le mans with chicanes as quick as Group C cars lap without chicanes.
 
MclarenGT
If I said that sorry,I meant to say that it was close to an LMP not faster than it by saying it ws on par with it. But an LMP of that time did 3:40s at le mans while group c C9 can do 3:24 with chicanes at best.I know a Sauber C9 had 800bhp and 850kg weight.

And 249mph you stated was done on le mans circuit without chicane which was introduced in 1990.A modern LMP can lap le mans with chicanes as quick as Group C cars lap without chicanes.
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Actually, no.

1989 Qualifying (Sauber C9): 3:15.040
1992 Qualifying (Peugoet 905): 3:21.200
2010 Qualifying (Peugoet 908): 3:19.711

So while a 2010 LMP1 is faster than a 1992 Group C (only by 2 seconds) it is not as fast as one that was racing on the older layout. In fact, since Group C cars could hit 240MPH+ on the non chicane Mulsanne then I would think if both cars were on the non chicane version the older car would be faster.
 
I tried the 3 McLarens at Spa on Grid Autosport last night (don't have AC yet) and got the following times:

MP4-12C GT3 - 2.09
F1 GTR - 2.05
P1 - 2.04

Both MP4 and F1 were in their lowest downforce configuration.

MP4 lost a lot of time on the straights despite having the best handling.

F1 GTR is so much faster on the straights despite poorer handling. Also I feel I did the best lap in this out of the three.

P1 is insanely fast on the straights and only slightly worse than the F1 GTR in the corners. This was the sloppiest lap out of the three and I feel I could go 2.03 if everything is perfect.

So yeah, read into that what you will. I know Grid isn't the best sim around, but it's interesting to see that at a track like Spa power might play a larger role than handling. Also the P1 despite being a road car has pretty high downforce levels. Since most corners at Spa are high speeds, I think it would negate the gap from the race cars. On a tighter, slower track where mechanical grip is more needed it might be a different story.

Until we get these 3 cars on the same track, under the same conditions, driven by the same driver (with insurance in case he crashes the P1 and classic F1 GTR) in real life, I don't think we'll be able to answer definitively. There's just too many factors involved.
 
@LeGeNd-1
I tried some cars at spa on GT6 even though there is no MP4-12c GT3,I used R8 LMS ultra gt3 instead of it.GT3 corners nearly as fast as an F1 GTR 95.
here are my lap times
Mclaren F1 GTR 95 2:10.981
Audi R8 LMS Ultra 2012 GT3 2:18
However if you want real life laptimes in same configuration from RSC conditions are stated if not ideal or unknown


Track Fastest GT3 lap(from 2010,2013,14 0r 15 depending on available data)
Zhuhai 1;34.461
Jarama 1:33.213
Le mans 3:54.246
Anderstorp 1:34.785

Track F1 GTR Lap
Zhuhai 1:31.886(cool,dry)
Jarama 1:30.053(hot,dry)
Le mans 3:48.264(hot,dry)
Anderstorp 1:28.408(cool,dry)

But in straights too F1 GTR will be faster than P1 remember F1 GTR reached 381km/h in mulsanne straight with chicane during practice session.It also accelerates from 0-60mph in 2.1s and 0-100mph in 4.3s.I had read at info on geocites or something like that.

You may feel that it GT3 car corners faster than F1 GTR even if it does not because F1 GTR accelerates faster than GT3.F1 GTR also produces enough downforce to run upside down at 100mph(i.e downforce of equal weight) according to motortrend read it full.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/112_0004_2000_mclaren_f1_supercar/viewall.html
A gt3 Nissan Nismo GTR car produces 1 ton downforce at 120mph.

AC is a good simulator but one can't tell that each and every car in AC is mirror to real life counterparts like people told me.

@
JASON_ROCKS1998

I was talking about 2015 LMP which laps as fast as group C
Porsche 919 Hybrid did 3:16.886 at le mans qualifier
http://www.racingsportscars.com/results/laps/Le_Mans-2015-06-14.html
So without chicane a modern LMP should do under 3 min.Sauber C9 did around 3:35 with le mans at chicane when tested by an owner.
 
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MclarenGT
But in straights too F1 GTR will be faster than P1 remember F1 GTR reached 381km/h in mulsanne straight with chicane during practice session.It also accelerates from 0-60mph in 2.1s and 0-100mph in 4.3s.I had read at info on geocites or something like that.
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I don't think that's right. The base F1 top speed is 373 km/h. The F1 GTR is power restricted to comply with regulations and it has extra aero which adds drag. Maybe it was a typo and the author meant 318 km/h? That sounds a lot more reasonable.

I might try testing in GT6 tonight. R8 LMS should be pretty close to MP4 GT3. I'm thinking of using a tuned MP4 road car to match the P1 specs. I wish PD had included the P1...
 
LeGeNd-1
I don't think that's right. The base F1 top speed is 373 km/h. The F1 GTR is power restricted to comply with regulations and it has extra aero which adds drag. Maybe it was a typo and the author meant 318 km/h? That sounds a lot more reasonable.

I might try testing in GT6 tonight. R8 LMS should be pretty close to MP4 GT3. I'm thinking of using a tuned MP4 road car to match the P1 specs. I wish PD had included the P1...
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No,base F1 has a topspeed of 243mph you can see that video on you tube.I have tried F1 GTR 95 at spa I got 2:10.981,with R8 LMS Ultra I got 2:18 with RS tires and 168mph setting.
I have also tried production cars with standard F1 I got 2:24,with MP4-12c I got 2:25 and with Veyron I got 2:27 with SH tires.1995 GTR has a topspeed of 211mph and accelerates from 0-60mph in 2.1s and 0-100mph in 4.3s.
I don't know if 381km/h is true or not but here is where I saw it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_F1_GTR
 
MclarenGT
No,base F1 has a topspeed of 243mph you can see that video on you tube.I have tried F1 GTR 95 at spa I got 2:10.981,with R8 LMS Ultra I got 2:18 with RS tires and 168mph setting.
I have also tried production cars with standard F1 I got 2:24,with MP4-12c I got 2:25 and with Veyron I got 2:27 with SH tires.1995 GTR has a topspeed of 211mph and accelerates from 0-60mph in 2.1s and 0-100mph in 4.3s.
I don't know if 381km/h is true or not but here is where I saw it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_F1_GTR
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Well, according to that page the 1997 Longtail F1 GTR hit 196MPH (317KPH) on the Mulsanne at LeMans 1997.
 
JASON_ROCKS1998
Well, according to that page the 1997 Longtail F1 GTR hit 196MPH (317KPH) on the Mulsanne at LeMans 1997.
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Actually longtail GTR was slower on straight line than short tail GTR's.95 GTR hit 381km/h,96 GTR hit 330km/h,97 GTR hit 317km/h according to that page at mulsanne straight.The longtail GTR relied on its high cornering speed not topspeed and technically 95 and 96 GTR are the same except some modification for easier pits.Short Tail GTR weighed 1013 kg longtail weighed 915kg.
 
MclarenGT
Actually longtail GTR was slower on straight line than short tail GTR's.95 GTR hit 381km/h,96 GTR hit 330km/h,97 GTR hit 317km/h according to that page at mulsanne straight.The longtail GTR relied on its high cornering speed not topspeed and technically 95 and 96 GTR are the same except some modification for easier pits.Short Tail GTR weighed 1013 kg longtail weighed 915kg.
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Like I said mate, it's probably a typo. If you just use common sense, F1 GTR will not have a higher top speed than base F1 because it has less power and more aero drag. Also, it does not make sense for the 96 GTR to be slower right? Wikipedia can be edited by anyone so you can't just trust anything that is written there.

Anyway, as promised I did some testing in GT6 last night. All laptimes done using Real grip reduction and all aids off except ABS 1. I did one practice lap then one flying lap.

McLaren MP4-12C as replacement "P1" - 903 HP, 1547 kg, SH tyres
Audi R8 LMS Ultra as replacement "MP4 GT3" - 500 HP, 1240 kg, RH tyres
F1 GTR - 600 HP, 1056 kg, RH tyres

All cars with maximum downforce (added rear wing on MP4-12C) and I also adjusted suspension and gearing quickly to make it easy to drive.

For benchmarking the "P1", I took it around Laguna Seca and compared it to the Motor Trend video below:



He got a laptime of 1.30.71. My time in the mock "P1" was 1.30.9xx. Pretty close.

I thought might as well test the other 2 cars to compare tight circuit (Laguna) vs open circuit (Spa).

Laguna Laptimes
P1 - 1.30
MP4 GT3 - 1.25
F1 GTR - 1.19

So then I headed to Spa, didn't change the settings at all.

Spa Laptimes
P1 - 2.25
MP4 GT3 - 2.20
F1 GTR - 2.10

As you can see in both tight and wide open tracks the order is the same. F1 GTR is fastest, followed by MP4 GT3, then P1 slowest. Real P1 might be slightly faster at Spa because of it's active aero, but I doubt it's worth 5 seconds, let alone 15 seconds. The only way I can imagine it beating the race cars is if it's on slicks.

I'm planning to get AC at the end of the year and I will definitely run these 3 cars again 👍
 
No P1 will not the fastest at spa Real life time of P1 at spa is 2:38 but 381km/h was there since 10yrs,
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/classement-ci16.htm
Yes,I do know that F1 might be faster than F1 GTR in terms of topspeed.F1 GTR 95 has a topspeed of 211mph.Generally vandalism there is reverted within 1 or 2 days.
But F1 topspeed is 243mph(391km/h)


Only change was rev limiter off.
In GT6 F1 topspeed is only 220mph,I have tested it at route x.
 
I know P1 is not fastest in real life. But I thought the question is why P1 is fastest in AC? Judging from tests it seems GT6 is more accurate.

GT6 F1 top speed is messed up. PD overcalculated the downforce and drag levels of the car resulting in way better handling and way lower top speed.
 
LeGeNd-1
I know P1 is not fastest in real life. But I thought the question is why P1 is fastest in AC? Judging from tests it seems GT6 is more accurate.

GT6 F1 top speed is messed up. PD overcalculated the downforce and drag levels of the car resulting in way better handling and way lower top speed.
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I don't think the problem is with drag or downforce level,F1 in that game is still very twitchy and has significant body rolls when cornering.Before I updated the game I reached a topspeed of 238mph with F1 stock in v1.00.I think the problem is the 6th gear bug after the update.
Also the F1 has high downforce mode which doubles or triples the downforce in normal mode using Kevlar fans that suck the air from underbody of the car.And PD gets the data from the manufacturer in licensing process so I don't think they might have overcalculated it.

And if you believe P1 is slowest in AC then have a look at laptimes at this site
F1 GTR nurburgring
http://www.radiators-champ.com/RSRL...controller_type=all&community=all&friends=all
MP4-12c GT3 Nurburgring
http://www.radiators-champ.com/RSRL...controller_type=all&community=all&friends=all
P1 nurburgring
http://www.radiators-champ.com/RSRL...controller_type=all&community=all&friends=all
Also try other track F1 GTR is the slowest in each and every track.
Yes,I want to know why P1 is fastest in AC which nobody is willing to answer.
 

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