I wish they never did the PP system =(

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Well, at least we don't have Forza's main problem; the tyre affects the class.
However, the PP system is not perfect, but it's better than nothing.
Personally, I think aero has too bigger role in PP, and there are balance issues with lightweight cars.
 
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PP works great. Usually hosting pp500/550 streetcars only on Nurburgring. Those pp's everyone got few cars ready to race and have enjoyed almost every night of tight races. If someone brings pussywagon, LFA/HSC/Elise to track, as a host i kick them and enjoyable races continues and room is full all the time.

Ofcourse pp system is not a diamond but well enough to get good races on.
 
I have the same problem as tc. I've seen many times that two car in the same pp level have a 3 seconds a lap difference:s. There are many ways to eliminate certain cars but most of the online hosts don't use them.

I also mis the class based races online (gt500 or tc). The option is there but a lot of people don't use em and when they do they do them without restrictions:( .

The pp system creates online races with to many cars with diffrent specs. You could have to cars with the same pp and have one car accelerate much faster while cornering is about equal.

I guess we cannot get rid op the pp but I hope it improves or they can find a way to combine pp with power/weight ratio.
 
The PP system is horribly flawed. I inadvertently did a test recently and I was surprised at what I found.

It all started when I was looking for info on the Nurburgring 24 hour race and stumbled upon a complete record of every cars lap times for the whole Nurburgring 24 hour race this year. Two of my favorite cars, the Subaru Imprezza and the VW Scirocco had very similar times even though the two cars are in slightly different classes. The class winning Imprezza had a fastest lap during the race of 9:28.960. The class winning Scirocco had a fastest lap during the race of 9:27.867.

I just wanted to try to replicate these two cars in GT5 and see if I could post some similar times. My times should've been faster then the times from the real cars in the race because I was on an empty track.

I got the latest DLC and wanted to throw some "go faster" parts on a Scirocco R so it could have similar specs to the Scirocco GT24. With all the "go faster" parts on the Scirocco, I only had to use the power limiter to knock off 2.8% of the power to get it down to the real life HP of 321HP. I also added 80 Kilos of "driver weight". I did the same for the Subaru Imprezza TC. It has all the "go faster" parts already. I just added the 80 kilos of driver weight and used the power limiter to knock 25% of the power off so it could match the HP of the actual STI Imprezza that ran in the race.

The Imprezza has a PP of 536. The Scirocco has a PP of 487. That's a difference of 49 PP.

The Imprezza had a lap time around the Nurburgring 24 hr course of 9:21.438. The Scirocco had a lap time of 9:22.328. These lap times were set on the first lap and only lap ran around the course by the cars. The cars had Racing Medium tires. I use a DFGT with manual gear change. No assists except ABS:1.

Point of my story... I built cars to be similar using real life specs and lap times and it worked but the PP was way different. That equals a flawed PP system to me.

Every time I get in a 500PP room with a Lotus Elise or a any of the Subaru Imprezzas (05, 07 or 10) or similar cars and there's someone In the room that has a severely detuned LFA, Vette or 458, more often then not, even though they've detuned their cars A LOT, they just drive thru and away from the other cars. Cars that tune UP to the desired PP are usually no match for cars that tune DOWN to a desired PP.

The power limiters use in online rooms and a revision of the PP system needs to be looked into by PD. I'm sure it won't be easy to crunch those numbers though...
 
I agree that PP needs a lot more work, but in general it works better than Weight/Bhp.
However, IMO a solution to this problem would be to have the option to apply all limitations at the same time.
[e.x.]
PP: 550
Weight: 1000kg
Power: 600bhp
-That would eliminate any inconvenience that any limitation by it self creates.

-Also i strongly believe that we need a Road Car Category.
 
PP is quite useless if you use it as the single indicator, if you factor in the category of car as well it mostly produces an evenly matched field.
A road car designation (which is now strangely enough only available for Lamborghini and Ferrari) or simply allowing both PP and power to weight limit to be used would be helpful I'd reckon.
 
It isn't perfect but it is infinitely more useful than power/weight. I agree with analog: pp in conjunction with other limitations would allow for far more effective race restrictions.
 
I like the PP, you have to take into consideration the cars you are aiming for. The PP system doesn't take age of the car into account, so even though an F40 is built to the same PP as a F430, the 430 will kill it round the track due to more than a decade worth of automotive tech advancements.

The PP system also doesn't consider engine placement as well. Similar power/weight cars on default PP, one can be FF and the other MR, there's no contest. MR cars are usually better at PP levels, while FF cars usually suffer, while 4WD and FR cars are about middle, (I am generalizing here). If the host restricts drive train as well, you will often get closer racing.

It's just a matter of knowing what the regulations of the lobby are and what the other drivers are competing in. You can't just take any car set to a PP level and expect to be top of the time. That is the biggest misconception about PP. I believe it's there to level a playing field of a certain category of car. Take the SuperGT GT500 class for example (premium cars only). If the lobby is set to power/weight, then your either in a GT-R or your back of the pack. If you set it to 600pp, then it opens the field up considerably and makes the racing that much more even across the different car types.

I also don't believe that detuning a car will outperform one that has been tuned up. I always tune up my cars as I find them faster, in particular now that Slipstream can be set to Weak, if you tune up a car, then you will most likely be producing more horsepower than a car that has been detuned, and can get away on the straights.

There are always exceptions to the rule, cars like the LFA stock have PP well below what they can perform at, and therefore stick out when running at certain PP levels, which can, and should, be fixed by PD in a patch. I remember they re-balanced some of the PP levels in GT5 Prologue, yet I don't think they have with GT5.
 
PP is miles better than power to weight ratio systems.

1: Set room to power and weight limits.
2: Chose the car with the most downforce.
3: Win every single race by 30 seconds.
 
I find both regulations having pro's and cons... And to be quite honest, l think PP was brought into the game since the start, but not fully introduced to the public until they finally released it in patch 1.xx.
I myself personally try to avoid the PP rooms as much as l can. If a room l opened isn't gathering guests, or if l can't find a room im looking for (rooms without boost, no excessive weight limit, full damage, not enough people), then l'll do my best to drive fairly in a PP room that interests me the most. But to be fair, they could add the addition to limit the tourque when dealing with rooms judging vehicles by weight and power.
 
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You could have a mix of power, weight and PP limits for online races, and in addition you could exclude specific cars and/or groups of cars, if the game allowed it.

For example, setting limits of: 500PP, 1100kg min, 500hp max, no racecars, no LFA, no M3.

More options for online racing would only be a good thing, IMO.
 
phil_75
PP is in general a good indicator of a cars performance.

An idea I had was if it had an "Auto Level" option where it would auto level all cars in the room to exact same aero, power, torque and weight, with only suspension and gearing changeable then its the tune and driver that wins not the car.
Plus you could use any car in that particular range and not have a room full of M3's and NSX's!
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Sounds like a one make race. Everyone on the same HP, aero and pp, can only change suspension and gearing.

Hope you see the irony... it is a room full of M3s ...
 
OK8
I think the PP system in general works well. I immediately know what sort of performance to expect from 500pp cars, 550pp, 450pp etc.

The only problem is the fact that light cars get thrown out really quickly as when you go below 800kg the cars just get raped with PP. My Ginetta G4 get's more than 500pp and it has 90hp! How the hell are you supposed to beat any 500pp car with 90hp?
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pp is obviously not calculated on HP alone. IRL an AC Cobra is such a beast to drive around the bends that a lighter much much less powerful car can (with the right driver) overtake it in a hairpin or tight esses. Once you are back in a straight line the Cobra whizzes by only to struggle again at the sight of a turn.
 

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