If GT4 was ultra real, most wouldn' like it

[Earth]

I have seen many with pitchforks and torches around PD demanding GT4 to become the ultimate driving sim as in how the cars control.

And if PD did that they wouldnt like GT4, or maybe a small % of them, and the vast majority of gamers wouldnt like it ether, heres why.

GT4 is said to consist of 500+ cars. Now all of you who drive in real know that all cars handle differently. They all brake and accelerate differentlly etc.

Now I know GT4 willhave at least 50 championships. Which means you may have to use 50 different cars to win the game. How many of you think you can learn how to drive a 50 rearl cars ranging from a Volkswagon beatle to the McLaren F1GTR in a year?

Not only do you think you could learn how to drive them, but could you learn how to drive them fast and complete competitive lap times as you need to in the championships?

My point is, if all the GT4 cars handled ultra real, they would all handle VERY different, which means it would take you a while to get settled into one car, and after one car there is 500 more to go.

KY has made the GT series in a way that if you understand things such as racing line, tire grip, etc, you will be able to drive ALL the cars considerably well, and look like a pro doing it.

Cars in GT4 WILL NEVER HANDLE exacly like their real word counterparts. Rreason being is if they did handle EXACTLY like the real cars 95% of us couldnt drive them competivly. Also PD may never have the time to get real world data for every single car. That is why they rely on one physics engline to calculate car weight, power etc to judge how it handles. Other games like GTR, NR2003 have one or a few types of cars to model physics for. That is how they can get it more true to life.

So to all those who want ultra real damage and ultra real handling for all the cars, the truth is, if GT3 had that you would still be trying to beat the game today.

 

[Hajaz]

hmm.. i wouldnt mind if it wouldve taken me longer to complete gt3 then it did.

 

[LoudMusic]

We've had that discussion before. They have to find the ballance between the masses and the hardcore racers.

 

[yeti]

It took me about a year to "complete" GT3... and by complete I meant to have won all the championships (Albeit not all of the races)...

But that wasn't a year of hardcore gaming... I spend quite a lot of that time playing other games and getting drunk and generally being a student!!

C.

 

[Earth]

We've had that discussion before. They have to find the ballance between the masses and the hardcore racers.

I'm just giving my opinion on why GT will never become as realistic as some of these PC racing sims.

Making the game more realistic then it is will please around 5% percent of the GT fanbase while irritating 50% of the fanbase at the same time.

This post isnt all about KY and PD finding the perfect balance, its about WHY GT will never go ultra realistic.

 

[LoudMusic]

That's the same argument though ...

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Earth, I commend your bravery for creating this thread. Whilst I agree that 95% of people are content with the game as it is, the other 5% are very vocal

To me GT3/4 is a game, after all how realistic is sitting in front of a TV with a little plastic controller anyway?

If the game was a full sim of JGTC racers, then it would take three years of practice before we could qualify for the grid!

I don't want to have to train for years, put on a fireproof suit, driving shoes, gloves, a helmet and then sit infront of a TV for 3 hours without pissing for the sake of realism. If you do then there's probably a fetish site out there catering for your interest, but I'm not a member.

 

[SaintKamus]

I have seen many with pitchforks and torches around PD demanding GT4 to become the ultimate driving sim as in how the cars control.

And if PD did that they wouldnt like GT4, or maybe a small % of them, and the vast majority of gamers wouldnt like it ether, heres why.

GT4 is said to consist of 500+ cars. Now all of you who drive in real know that all cars handle differently. They all brake and accelerate differentlly etc.

Now I know GT4 willhave at least 50 championships. Which means you may have to use 50 different cars to win the game. How many of you think you can learn how to drive a 50 rearl cars ranging from a Volkswagon beatle to the McLaren F1GTR in a year?

Not only do you think you could learn how to drive them, but could you learn how to drive them fast and complete competitive lap times as you need to in the championships?

My point is, if all the GT4 cars handled ultra real, they would all handle VERY different, which means it would take you a while to get settled into one car, and after one car there is 500 more to go.

KY has made the GT series in a way that if you understand things such as racing line, tire grip, etc, you will be able to drive ALL the cars considerably well, and look like a pro doing it.

Cars in GT4 WILL NEVER HANDLE exacly like their real word counterparts. Rreason being is if they did handle EXACTLY like the real cars 95% of us couldnt drive them competivly. Also PD may never have the time to get real world data for every single car. That is why they rely on one physics engline to calculate car weight, power etc to judge how it handles. Other games like GTR, NR2003 have one or a few types of cars to model physics for. That is how they can get it more true to life.

So to all those who want ultra real damage and ultra real handling for all the cars, the truth is, if GT3 had that you would still be trying to beat the game today.

and your point is?

for god's sake, it's been said again and again, if you don't enjoy sims there could ALWAYS be an "N00b Arcade mode" included, so evrything you bring up shouln't be an issue, the FACT is that PD claims GT4 is a sim, so when you make claims like that, you got to back them up, or you're misleading people, end of story.
i gotta love your comment about how if GT3 was "real" people would still be trying to beat the game... oh please, it seems VERY obvious to me that you haven't really played a sim for more than 20 minutes, the fact is, once you LEARN how to race a car properly it's NOT THAT HARD! it's just harder to learn, but once you do, it's not such a big deal, and guess what? it's a LOT more competitive!

so ok, now you gotta tell me, just how the hell does including a sim mode and an arcade mode would make people not like the game so much, when in fact it would actually appeal to a wider audience instead of just gamers! (that's right, it would actually be appealing to... *gasp* people that like racing, but can't afford the real deal!)

thankfully for us (sim fans) GT4 is promising even for us... evryone says that the "new build" of GT4 feels a lot more real than GT4P did.
I can't wait to confirm/debunk that myself.

so please, stop making excuses for PD, when you make claims like "the real driving simulator" you better be ready to back them up, or you're being misleading, end of story.
people that buy games upon such claims WERE very dissapointed with the other 3 GT games, hopefuly this time it will be "sim" enough so that PD finally redeems itself in the eyes of those people.

i just DON'T see what the problem is with cars handling "very different if they were real".
an experienced driver would have no problem learnig how to get the basics of the car in just a few laps, and yes.. for evryone alse, there's arcade mode, where evrything is innacurate / easy enough for most people.

look, i don't think evryone has any doubts that if GT wasn't "arcady" it would sell nearly as good as if it was a hard core sim, because people excpect games to be "easy" enough for them to not waste a lot of time mastering them, sadly, the gaming industry is not there yet... it DOESNT appeal most hard core racers either because they don't know a "game" can drive so real either...
That's why PD should be concerned in closing the gap for the latter, they allready have the casual gamer in their bag, now all they gotta do is appeal to the "rest of the world" (people not so much into games, but very much into racing!)
and the solution is within reach, 2 modes, one arcadish mode, one hard core sim, trust me, there wouldn't be people *****ing then.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

I did warn you Earth that sim fans were very vocal

Expect more of the same

 

[Overclocked412]

If you want realistic play Live For Speed with a racing wheel ( when I say racing wheel I mean logitech's wingman formula GP . Once you get the wheel sensitivy calibrated, its amazing. every movement you make on the wheel is immediatly transfered into the game, therefore making very precise steering. The indash view is the best race-position. barely turning the wheel your holding barely turns the wheel in the dash on the screen and everything reacts as it should. Great sounds, great physics. Tho' the actual car models need to be better, and there needs to be shaders and what not, but anyways, If you have a racing wheel for the PC (I also believe teh logitech wheels for PS2 will work too, since their USB), try the game Live For Speed. Theres a free demo available for it. Check it out:
(and dont try racing with the keyboard, it just wasnt designed for it).
http://lfs.racesimcentral.com/

 

[SaintKamus]

Earth, I commend your bravery for creating this thread. Whilst I agree that 95% of people are content with the game as it is, the other 5% are very vocal

To me GT3/4 is a game, after all how realistic is sitting in front of a TV with a little plastic controller anyway?

If the game was a full sim of JGTC racers, then it would take three years of practice before we could qualify for the grid!

that's why you buy the new steering wheel, so you don't just have a little plastic controller, and as for how real can sitting in front a monitor it can be when comparing it to real life?

well, real enough that once you learn to master a car and track in a simulator you'd never be satisfied with arcade handling, does that answer your question? or would you like a more detailed explination?

and you're saying it would take people 3 years to qualify?

seems VERY obvious to me by now you've never played a true simulation before, it's a steep learning curve no doubt, but once you get the hang of it it's not that big a deal.

and while your 95% vs 5% number might be true, that's just because people that like racing would probably never consider the posibility that a game can drive so real like i said in my earlier post, trust me, if PD would raise awareness to those people, those people would become "gamers" in a hearbeat, it's an untapped market share, it would make some people that would never consider buying a console buy one.

so please, people, stop bringing up how much you suck at a simulator as an excuse, it isn't.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

so please, people, stop bringing up how much you suck at a simulator as an excuse, it isn't.

Correction...vocal and rude

I have a DFPro...its made of plastic

btw My times are there for all to see at db.granturismo.de if you want to see how much I suck

 

[SaintKamus]

If you want realistic play Live For Speed with a racing wheel ( when I say racing wheel I mean logitech's wingman formula GP . Once you get the wheel sensitivy calibrated, its amazing. every movement you make on the wheel is immediatly transfered into the game, therefore making very precise steering. The indash view is the best race-position. barely turning the wheel your holding barely turns the wheel in the dash on the screen and everything reacts as it should. Great sounds, great physics. Tho' the actual car models need to be better, and there needs to be shaders and what not, but anyways, If you have a racing wheel for the PC (I also believe teh logitech wheels for PS2 will work too, since their USB), try the game Live For Speed. Theres a free demo available for it. Check it out:
(and dont try racing with the keyboard, it just wasnt designed for it).
http://lfs.racesimcentral.com/

i like LFS, played it, like it... BUT:

Does LFS allow me to drive cars that are commercialy available?
are LFS sounds as good as they could be? (GTR sounds MUCH better IMO, but then.. GTR is just racing cars)
does LFS on it's current state has decent graphics? (not really... they kinda suck O_o)
i like LFS, but i really like the idea of being able to "test drive" cars i know i'll never be able to afford, and to be able to get a suped up version of the car i drive in real life in the track, this is why to me, the concept of having GT4 as a true driving sim is so important, and while the graphics are just 480i, they look very high quality when compared to LFS, and the wide selection of cars makes it a lot more intresting than LFS for me, LFS is a very solid sim, but none of my friends are into it (for pretty much the reasons i pointed out earlier), that sim will continue to improve, and i'll probably end up playing more GT4 than LFS in the end, because i feel that GT4 will be "real enough", hopefully that the benefits outwheigh it's cons.
but then.. i can't tell for sure yet.

 

[ExigeEvan]

If you wanted it to be a real sim, we would have to go to the lengths of Air Force trainers. But can you afford a multi million pound, multi-direction and hydrolically (sp?) powered simulator? No, I didn't think so.
If you watch people reviewing GT3/GT4 they always seem to say at the end "Remember this is a racing sim, not an arcade racer like Need for Speed Underground." Anyway we all want to just sit down and lay a game, and as stated before, not to have to train for years to do it.

 

[Hajaz]

it's obvious that PD are going to have to go the more realism route if theyre aiming to bring laptimes within seconds of real life laptimes. Not to mention the "real driving simulator" thing.
As was said before, having several modes and driving assists witch can be switched on an off should cater to everyone.
I would azt least like the option to drive with as much realism as possible. Especially for online races where everyone would race with the same options on/off, set by the host.

 

[Earth]

and your point is?

for god's sake, it's been said again and again, if you don't enjoy sims there could ALWAYS be an "N00b Arcade mode" included, so evrything you bring up shouln't be an issue, the FACT is that PD claims GT4 is a sim, so when you make claims like that, you got to back them up, or you're misleading people, end of story.
i gotta love your comment about how if GT3 was "real" people would still be trying to beat the game... oh please, it seems VERY obvious to me that you haven't really played a sim for more than 20 minutes, the fact is, once you LEARN how to race a car properly it's NOT THAT HARD! it's just harder to learn, but once you do, it's not such a big deal, and guess what? it's a LOT more competitive!

Well, MR 5% of the GT community, I'm sorry that your misleaded by GT's real driving simulator tag. If you want A REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR go buy some small PC sim that wont see the light of day and apeals to 5% of the public and will sell 10% as many copies as GT4. And your comment on how its not hard to drive a race car properly is rediculous as they come. Pro drivers come up through karting etc and various slower powerfull cars before they even think about getting behnd a 600 hp McLaren F1GTR. So do you think that you, who probably drives a 100 hp Honda Civic can get behind the wheel of a McLaren F1 GTR and get within 10 seconds of pole speed in a month? No way. Sure, some race car drivers, Mario Andretti, Juan Montoya, seem to have little trouble adjusting to new race cars. But you know what? They have YEARS of experience under their belts. They havent drove Honda Civics all their life. They have been racin since early child hood and probably were going faster then 200kph before puberty. Sad thing is, you guy want the game to handle real, but I will say this again and again, if it did handle real almost NOBODY could drive the big cars!

so ok, now you gotta tell me, just how the hell does including a sim mode and an arcade mode would make people not like the game so much, when in fact it would actually appeal to a wider audience instead of just gamers! (that's right, it would actually be appealing to... *gasp* people that like racing, but can't afford the real deal!)

I dont understand

thankfully for us (sim fans) GT4 is promising even for us... evryone says that the "new build" of GT4 feels a lot more real than GT4P did.
I can't wait to confirm/debunk that myself.

I myself would like to see GT cars handle more realisticly, but up to a point. They need to realise how GT got to be popular in the first place. You uber sim junkies like how GT has tons of tracks and cars, something alot of your uber sms dont have, so now you want GT to mold from what made it successfull and mold into something less popular that fits your fantasies

so please, stop making excuses for PD, when you make claims like "the real driving simulator" you better be ready to back them up, or you're being misleading, end of story.
people that buy games upon such claims WERE very dissapointed with the other 3 GT games, hopefuly this time it will be "sim" enough so that PD finally redeems itself in the eyes of those people.

Those people who you say were dissapointed...can you 5% of the fanbase?

i just DON'T see what the problem is with cars handling "very different if they were real".
an experienced driver would have no problem learnig how to get the basics of the car in just a few laps, and yes.. for evryone alse, there's arcade mode, where evrything is innacurate / easy enough for most people.

I dont see why PD and KY should make the bulk of GT inaccesible to its massive fan base to please 5%. And in my opinion arcade handles no different from the sim mode in GT3, just my own opinion. And yes, you may be able to get the bacis in a few laps if your the 5%, but to master the car and to be able to run competitive lap times is a totally different story.

look, i don't think evryone has any doubts that if GT wasn't "arcady" it would sell nearly as good as if it was a hard core sim, because people excpect games to be "easy" enough for them to not waste a lot of time mastering them, sadly, the gaming industry is not there yet... it DOESNT appeal most hard core racers either because they don't know a "game" can drive so real either...
That's why PD should be concerned in closing the gap for the latter, they allready have the casual gamer in their bag, now all they gotta do is appeal to the "rest of the world" (people not so much into games, but very much into racing!)
and the solution is within reach, 2 modes, one arcadish mode, one hard core sim, trust me, there wouldn't be people *****ing then.

Until your number rises above 5%, expect 'arcady' racing titles to rule. And again, I dont see reason to make a sim mode, which is more then half the game, inaccesible to everyone except the 5% uber sim guys.

Very greedy and selfish if you ask me

 

[heero 12]

I don't really care, I just want them to release the game at this point.

 

[Cosmic]

iF you want realistic play Live For Speed with a racing wheel

That's exactly what zoxxy said to me Didn't you?
And , that's not true. A game can't be realistic as in real life. Not even GT4!

 

[SaintKamus]

Correction...vocal and rude

I have a DFPro...its made of plastic

btw My times are there for all to see at db.granturismo.de if you want to see how much I suck

what are your times in F355 challenge? or GTR? or GPL?

yeah, it's too bad the new sterring wheel it's made of plastic, and it's too bad my old momo force doesn't work (leather wheel and metal pedals!) but even though it's plastic, it feels and looks better than my "old" momo force. and i love that the 2 and 1/2 turns actually change the gameplay even in GT4p, i can't wait to try out the so called "latest build with new physics" to see what that's all about.
in GT4 my biggest concern right now would probably be acceleration on corners, as it is right now you rarely have to rely heavily on the analog accelerator (in contrast, in F355 challenge you'd have to gradually accelerate/deaccelerate on some corners depending on how steep it was, sometimes you'd even have to do both for quite a bit).
braking seems to be more accurate in GT4p than it was in GT3, but it's still not there... you can still sometimes handle your way out of late braking in GT4p (late brake on GTR or real life and off the track you go!)
i think GT4 finally really has the potential to be satisfying even for sim fans, i hope i'm right, and i hope that people realize that having a sim mode along with an arcade mode is NOT A BAD THING. and stop posting about why the GT series shouln't be a sim even though it's called one.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Arcade games will always sell more than sims simply because people want a game they can pick up, put in and play. They want to be able to press right and the car will turn right. Press X (accelerator) and the car will accelerate at an amzing speed. They won't want a game where they have to fiddle with suspension and brake strength etc.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

yeah, it's too bad the new sterring wheel it's made of plastic, and it's too bad my old momo force doesn't work (leather wheel and metal pedals!) but even though it's plastic, it feels and looks better than my "old" momo force.

The DFPro is a fantastic wheel that transforms GT4P, even though the housing is made of plastic, the wheel itself is covered in nice tactile rubber(oooh!)

I love racing games, and like the pseudo realism that GT offers compared to other console racers, but I am under no illusion that it is realistic, I can drive at 200mph in a McLaren with one hand on the wheel, turn round and say "babes, get me another beer out the fridge will you, cheers".

 

[Earth]

what are your times in F355 challenge? or GTR? or GPL?

yeah, it's too bad the new sterring wheel it's made of plastic, and it's too bad my old momo force doesn't work (leather wheel and metal pedals!) but even though it's plastic, it feels and looks better than my "old" momo force. and i love that the 2 and 1/2 turns actually change the gameplay even in GT4p, i can't wait to try out the so called "latest build with new physics" to see what that's all about.
in GT4 my biggest concern right now would probably be acceleration on corners, as it is right now you rarely have to rely heavily on the analog accelerator (in contrast, in F355 challenge you'd have to gradually accelerate/deaccelerate on some corners depending on how steep it was, sometimes you'd even have to do both for quite a bit).
braking seems to be more accurate in GT4p than it was in GT3, but it's still not there... you can still sometimes handle your way out of late braking in GT4p (late brake on GTR or real life and off the track you go!)
i think GT4 finally really has the potential to be satisfying even for sim fans, i hope i'm right, and i hope that people realize that having a sim mode along with an arcade mode is NOT A BAD THING. and stop posting about why the GT series shouln't be a sim even though it's called one.

All this nonsense about braking

I can imagine 2 of my friends, who are no where close to being uber sim nuts but enjoy GT, go into their first corner in GT4, hit the brakes late, and slide off the track. They brake a little earlier next time but the tires lock up and the car doesnt slow and they slide off the track. Or they hit X to accelerate out of a turn only to spin out everytime. They go to arcade mode and rejoice, they can drive the cars, but they win no bonus cars, no money, jus extra cars and tracks to race 2 player in.

Now I see them going to the local gamestop to sell or trade in the game the very next day, regretting they ever spent their money on a game they cant even drive. And when GT5 is released they dont give it a second look. Instead, they are sure to buy Burnout 4.

This is the same scenario with some 2 million other people.

 

[Flinx]

what are your times in F355 challenge? or GTR? or GPL?

yeah, it's too bad the new sterring wheel it's made of plastic, and it's too bad my old momo force doesn't work (leather wheel and metal pedals!) but even though it's plastic, it feels and looks better than my "old" momo force. and i love that the 2 and 1/2 turns actually change the gameplay even in GT4p, i can't wait to try out the so called "latest build with new physics" to see what that's all about.
in GT4 my biggest concern right now would probably be acceleration on corners, as it is right now you rarely have to rely heavily on the analog accelerator (in contrast, in F355 challenge you'd have to gradually accelerate/deaccelerate on some corners depending on how steep it was, sometimes you'd even have to do both for quite a bit).
braking seems to be more accurate in GT4p than it was in GT3, but it's still not there... you can still sometimes handle your way out of late braking in GT4p (late brake on GTR or real life and off the track you go!)
i think GT4 finally really has the potential to be satisfying even for sim fans, i hope i'm right, and i hope that people realize that having a sim mode along with an arcade mode is NOT A BAD THING. and stop posting about why the GT series shouln't be a sim even though it's called one.

how is life with such an arrogant attitude?
you seem to be so successful in "Sim" games because you need to fill your gap that is real life to other people.
you won´t see any times of GPL, GTR and all of those other freaking PC-sims.
just because i don´t own that games nor the appropriate, powerful PC that is needed to run most of them "sims".
like most people here, i like to have different braking points for each car, handling etc.

you sim guys should keep in mind that we play a game here, not simulating real life.

btw,
why do these "sim" guys always pop up before a part of the GT-series is released and after three weeks after the game release you won´t see any of them posting times in the db.

besides, where are your times for the db?

 

[SaintKamus]

Earth... how am i being greedy and selfish in asking that GT4 lives up to it's "real driving simulator" tag?
also, what's up with

"And yes, you may be able to get the bacis in a few laps if your the 5%, but to master the car and to be able to run competitive lap times is a totally different story."

welcome to the world of "some people like challenges" it's a very nice place, and once you get into it you'll see just how much rewarding it is to improve lap times in a sim than in an arcade.
and the parts of my posts you "don't understand" are beyond me, i was VERY clear.

i'm not even trying to be rude here, but when people go on a bashing spree with out solid facts about something it makes it too easy to answer in a rude manner.

again, just answer me, how the hell are sim fans being "greedy" here? YOU STILL HAVE YOUR ARCADE MODE! STOP WHINING!

people like you would never even have to buy a steering wheel! (what's the point, you don't like realisim), learn to drive a car at high speeds with out risking your life (a sim is the only place you can do that, but if you still don't want to do it that's fine with me) or spend time improving lap times. look, we get it ok? you won't ever play a sim, but just because you and "most people" (we don't even have real numbers here, do we? we know that are more gamers than race fans, but that's about it) won't ever play in that sim mode, doesn't mean it shouln't be there, for god's sake, how many times do i have to explain it? if you ever see a "sim" mode in a game, DONT USE IT, and you'll be happy ok?

i tried to explain that people that aren't necesarily into games might actually get into them if they were real enough, specially on a platform so available like the PS2 (and cheap), like i said, that's a marketshare no current console has a grip on, trust me, there are a lot more "sim fans" than you think... hell, some of them don't even know they are because they aren't into "kiddie games" (read, games via TV, monitor, etc).

but you can bet that if PD starts changing that by making gaming really go mainstream with a sim mode (at least as far as racing games go) you'd start seeing a lot more fans all of a sudden, hell, my dad and his 40 year old friends aren't into gaming at all, but you know what? even though they don't own a PS2 or play doom 3 they can actually whoop my ass in sims (they are racing fans), and they are VERY into them (been a while since i played with them though, last time i played with them the sim was Viper racing for the PC and we played a little GPL too)
so please, stop speaking for evryone alse when you say people don't like sims, because like i said, if people KNEW the level of realisim they could get for 300 bucks with out risking their lives and spanding obscene ammounts of cash tuning their cars and paying for track time they'd get into sims in a heartbeat, and hey, what better platform to do this than a PS2?

now, will you PLEASE stop it with your "GT shouln't be a sim" posts? YOU'LL GET your arcadish game, don't worry, so why do you want to ruin it for sim fans if you'll have what you want?
aren't YOU the one being selfish? you allready have what you want, so why not let others have what THEY want too?

 

[code_kev]

If Gt captured driving a real car, I would certainly prefer it over the current dumbed down sim mode that it currently has. OFC it would be harder, but you would get in to the game more, well I certainly would.

and hey, what better platform to do this than a PS2?

How about a 3 ghz pc . Hmm imagine if PD had that kind of power to play with, the results would be awesome

 

[Pak]

Bah, I'll reply later, this is such bs.

 

[Robin]

I don't understand this at all......what a load of rubbish.......I don't care if the masses don't like GT.......enough do to make it one of the best selling games ever.

If GT4 was ultra real (and by that I presume you mean difficult) then it would be even better.....some games are just so easy to complete and get very boring. I don't care if people don't have the staying power to play GT4.....they can go and play connect the dots if they want it easy! GT is a simulator......therefore it should be as hard as real life....therefore it is good that it is hard.

It is simple...not all games are for everyone......but I would presume that everyone in this forum would not mind GT4's difficulty...and some would probably want it even harder than past GT games. GT is hard...if it wasn't then it wouldnt be GT.

Robin

 

[code_kev]

What we need is a fricking clutch, I swear if this was implemented well it would make it so much much better, as long as your had a decent wheel with enough pedals

 

[Robin]

^ I agree........GT4 should be even more challenging than previous GT's......if its a sim I want a damn clutch!!!!!

 

[SaintKamus]

how is life with such an arrogant attitude?
you seem to be so successful in "Sim" games because you need to fill your gap that is real life to other people.
you won´t see any times of GPL, GTR and all of those other freaking PC-sims.
just because i don´t own that games nor the appropriate, powerful PC that is needed to run most of them "sims".
like most people here, i like to have different braking points for each car, handling etc.

you sim guys should keep in mind that we play a game here, not simulating real life.

btw,
why do these "sim" guys always pop up before a part of the GT-series is released and after three weeks after the game release you won´t see any of them posting times in the db.

besides, where are your times for the db?

f355 challenge is available for both the dreamcast (no wheel support) and the PS2 (gt wheel support)
looks like i hit a nerve, you even went as far as to call me a no life individual that's just good at "sims", wow, you got me figured out, by the way, you probably don't see any of them posting in the DB because they're busy playing sims instead, hopefully GT4 will be sim enough so you get those guys posting their times there.
look, we are not your enemies or something, like i said a lot of times in this thread, you still have your game, adding a sim mode wouln't make an arcadish mode go away. what is your problem here?
and no, you won't see any posts of my times on GT3 not because i consider the game too arcadish to me (it's ok, it's just not a sim, but even then i enjoy it). but because of no internet multiplayer, i'd rather play a multiplayer game than GT3 vs AI, about once each 2-3 months i get together with 5 friends and we play 6 player GT3, that's when i enjoy it the most. so the biggest reason for my intrest in GT4, belive it or not, is not that it becomes "more sim than any sim", but multiplayer, but again, you tell me how wishing the gameplay to be better than in GT3 while they're at it is a bad thing. trust me, i'm not asking for too much here.

we "sim guys" are also very aware we're "playing a game here, and not simulating real life". that's all fine and dandy, when all it's said and done even the hardest core sim available isn't real, i think just about evryone is aware of this, but why then, is it so much more enjoyable to play a sim once you went trough the trouble of learning to play one?
it's not real.. but it feels more real, it feels real enough so that those people actually stop liking arcade games, the same way that once you learn to play GT3 properly you'll stop liking the even more arcadish games (say... outrun 2, that game looks light years ahead better than GT3. but would a serious GT series fan enjoy it as much as he enjoys GT3?)

and why is it that people that are against sims seem to think it takes a "powerful and expensive PC" to play a sim? GPL is a sim, and it ran fine un a p2 300 mhz when it came out, so there goes you're theory down the toilet O_o.

look, you arcade only fans can say all you want, but there's just no solid reasoning behind "PD shouln't include a sim mode!" period.
specially when:

1) you got the mode you want to play allready in the game.
2) you're not the one claiming "the real driving simulator" (so why does it concern you?0
3) you won't be any less of a man if GT4 was more real in a mode you'll never play.

look, some of the "hard core sim guys" aren't even pretending they are good drivers, all we say is that we find more realistic gameplay a lot more enjoyable, what in the world is wrong with that? you can be an avarage driver that likes racing, is that a sin of some kind?