If GT4 was ultra real, most wouldn' like it

[Earth]

You and your uber sim followers are greedy because GT has had really the same handling for the past 6 years, but now you want to completly revamp the handling, making it ALOT harder, when alot of the console guys see the game hard as it is. (Too much NFS, Burnout)

The sim mode doesn't need to become ubersim guy paradise. No reason for it too. GT handles like a sim more than any console game, so thats enough at this point and time.

Face it. You are just upset that GT has awesome graphics, tracks and cars, yet it doesnt handle like your PC sims. Sorry, but the world doesnt spin at your whim

 

[code_kev]

Face it. You are just upset that GT has awesome graphics, tracks and cars, yet it doesnt handle like your PC sims. Sorry, but the world doesnt spin at your whim

See earth, all it has to do is handle and respond like a real car, is that too much to ask? While it's cute that they make it nice and easy, and this would be fine in other games, but this is GT, a driving sim, and stuff like this doesn't cut the mustard imo. I want cars to feel powerful, I want to be punished for sloppy driving and mistakes etc

The day Gt is realistic enough to need a wheel, is the day I'll get a wheel

 

[SaintKamus]

If Gt captured driving a real car, I would certainly prefer it over the current dumbed down sim mode that it currently has. OFC it would be harder, but you would get in to the game more, well I certainly would.



How about a 3 ghz pc . Hmm imagine if PD had that kind of power to play with, the results would be awesome

ahh, well, one can always dream....

i'd love to be able to play GT4 on my PC, that's for sure.. i have good PC (2.2 ghz opteron, x800 XT PE), but it's lacking GT series O_o, PD even has the nerve to show us PC enthusiasts what the game would look like on one (a LOT of the photos they release are in very high res, when in reality, GT4 won't only be "low res" but won't have progressive scan, they really shouldn't tease us so bad!)

it seems the problem isn't PD.. i've read that if it was up to them, they'd release their game for the PC to reach a broader audience... but it seems it's up to sony. and they want to be "exclusive", what sony doesn't get is that a PC version wouln't cost them clients, but gain them new ones, because i know a lot of people that will never buy a PS2 regardless of how good a game is, it's just a different market, if sony would realize that, they'd have a PC version too.

 

[Robin]

It would be great if it were on PC.....but I think keeping it on console is what keeps consoles selling.....it you get what I mean!......if every game released on console was released on PC no one would really buy a console because most people have PC's where the graphics would probably be better. Think how many PS2's have sold because of GT, or how many xbox's have sold because of Halo!.....besides...I wouldnt worry.....PS3 graphics will be ample thankyou!

 

[Earth]

See earth, all it has to do is handle and respond like a real car, is that too much to ask? While it's cute that they make it nice and easy, and this would be fine in other games, but this is GT, a driving sim, and stuff like this doesn't cut the mustard imo. I want cars to feel powerful, I want to be punished for sloppy driving and mistakes etc

The day Gt is realistic enough to need a wheel, is the day I'll get a wheel

GT has had the same handling for the past 6 years. Why not complain about how it didnt cut the mustard in the last 6 years? If the handling was so easy and bad, why is it the #1 racing game in the world? All the people I have spoken with are just fine with how GT handles. In fact alot think it is too tough.

This thread was made to show and prove whly GT WILL NEVER GO HARDCORE. They may add things like sports tires, or options to up tires spin etc, but the game will never be a true driving sim right out of the box.

 

[code_kev]

I bought my ps2 JUST for Gt4, i think that sums it up quite well. I bought my xbox (before the ps2) because, well I just wanted a console and I missed owning one

 

[kensei]

I have seen many with pitchforks and torches around PD demanding GT4 to become the ultimate driving sim as in how the cars control.

And if PD did that they wouldnt like GT4, or maybe a small % of them, and the vast majority of gamers wouldnt like it ether, heres why.

GT4 is said to consist of 500+ cars. Now all of you who drive in real know that all cars handle differently. They all brake and accelerate differentlly etc.

Now I know GT4 willhave at least 50 championships. Which means you may have to use 50 different cars to win the game. How many of you think you can learn how to drive a 50 rearl cars ranging from a Volkswagon beatle to the McLaren F1GTR in a year?

Not only do you think you could learn how to drive them, but could you learn how to drive them fast and complete competitive lap times as you need to in the championships?

My point is, if all the GT4 cars handled ultra real, they would all handle VERY different, which means it would take you a while to get settled into one car, and after one car there is 500 more to go.

KY has made the GT series in a way that if you understand things such as racing line, tire grip, etc, you will be able to drive ALL the cars considerably well, and look like a pro doing it.

Cars in GT4 WILL NEVER HANDLE exacly like their real word counterparts. Rreason being is if they did handle EXACTLY like the real cars 95% of us couldnt drive them competivly. Also PD may never have the time to get real world data for every single car. That is why they rely on one physics engline to calculate car weight, power etc to judge how it handles. Other games like GTR, NR2003 have one or a few types of cars to model physics for. That is how they can get it more true to life.

So to all those who want ultra real damage and ultra real handling for all the cars, the truth is, if GT3 had that you would still be trying to beat the game today.

I think most GT fans will want the cars to be as realistic handling as possible in a video game. I want all the realism PD can pack into the game. It should be hard to drive. Driving isn't easy in real life, especially race driving.

But - this makes an argument for a Simulation and Arcade mode. In GT3 ther eis little difference other than SIM mode you can tune the car. But basically the cars handle and behave the same.

Id liek the see GT4 Simulation mode be as realistic as they can make it. While the Arcade mode is jsut that, Arcade. Easier more forgiving handling for people who don't care to deal with SIM mode. Maybe Arcade has different levels of handling. Beginner - intermediate - professional - simulation , each mode would have different handling.

Like I said I want ALL the realism PD can pack into GT4, including engine wear, tire wear, fuel levels, weather, mechanical problems, etc. I also want the handling to be unforgiving. Something you need to spend time and learn how to drive. Not jsut sit down and within a race or two dominate like you can in GT3.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

looks like i hit a nerve, you even went as far as to call me a no life individual that's just good at "sims", wow, you got me figured out, by the way, you probably don't see any of them posting in the DB because they're busy playing sims instead, hopefully GT4 will be sim enough so you get those guys posting their times there.

Arrogant and lacking in respect You obviously don't know who you were talking to there...

it's not real.. but it feels more real, it feels real enough so that those people actually stop liking arcade games, the same way that once you learn to play GT3 properly you'll stop liking the even more arcadish games

Thats just not true, you can enjoy all games I wouldn't say that after driving a real car I'd never want to play a game again!

I'm guessing here, but since you write in the style of an angst ridden teenager, I doubt you actually have a driving license, so maybe you're not the most qualified person to talk about realism...I could be wrong there but your style is a little arrogant and angry!

As for

welcome to the world of "some people like challenges"

, pick any one of Flinx's times...and try and get near it...

 

[SaintKamus]

You and your uber sim followers are greedy because GT has had really the same handling for the past 6 years, but now you want to completly revamp the handling, making it ALOT harder, when alot of the console guys see the game hard as it is. (Too much NFS, Burnout)

The sim mode doesn't need to become ubersim guy paradise. No reason for it too. GT handles like a sim more than any console game, so thats enough at this point and time.

Face it. You are just upset that GT has awesome graphics, tracks and cars, yet it doesnt handle like your PC sims. Sorry, but the world doesnt spin at your whim

ok, repeat after me:

"i'm a selfish bastard and i don't care about good gameplay so nobody alse should, and therefor PD shouln't include a more real mode because i won't play it so what's the point, i don't want it, so they shouln't do it"

how many, just how many times do i have to repeat myself to a stuborn guy like you? well, this is the last, but understand this, get it trough your THICK skull:

YOU ALLREADY HAVE YOUR ARCADE MODE, WHATS YOUR PROBLEM?

yes, GT as awsome graphics, i like it for it, yes it has amazing tracks, i like it for it, and yes it has a lot of real cars, i like it for it, and guess what? i'd like it even MORE if it had a full blown sim mode.
and here's the shocker.. a LOT more people would like it even more if they included that mode, i think this would be even more true in europe than in the US, as they have a much richer racing culture than the US (not saying evryone in the US likes nascar over F1, rally, and GT.. but lets face it, it's the most popular racing sport in the US)

i don't know where the hell you get your reasoning of "sim fans are jelous"

excuse me? have you not read any of my previous posts? i like the game a lot, i just want some very basic things improved so it would play a LOT better.

look, if you haven't taken the time to play a sim in the first place... well, then you have no place bashing sims, as you have NO CLUE in how they play.

so untill you have actually tried a sim (hell, learned to play one) your impressions as to why a sim mode is bad for evryone will be ignored, because... well, you don't even know what you're talking about, literaly.

 

[Robin]

Gran Turismo the REAL Driving SIMULATOR

hmmm........shouldnt GT be hard........or am I blind!

 

[code_kev]

Earth is one of these people who makes out as if the short comings in GT4 are done on purpose or something

"oh it doesn't have damage, thats because it's not a crashing sim"

etc etc etc

From what I've played, Gt is NOTHING, ABSOLUTLY NOTHING like a driving a real car.

 

[Robin]

^.....all the more reason for it to be MORE realistic.....that it what it is aiming to be right!

 

[Lethalchem]

I can see both sides of this argument, although I'm always going to lean towards realism and making the game much more difficult. Games inherantly have to be made easier because of the wide variety of user skill, but I'd hope there could be a middle ground for those who need more of a challenge.

In response to the years and years of experience needed to drive a car that copies reality, I disagree. The MAJORITY of the cars in GT4 will be standard street production vehicles. It certainly doesn't take years to learn how to drive them. I autocross on a regular basis, and I often drive cars belonging to friends as well as my own. These are unfamiliar vehicles, yet I am still able to turn decent lap times with them after just a short time behind the wheel.

Now of course the race versions will be a bit more tricky, but I can see a happy middle ground easily enough. What good is 500 cars that all drive similarly? You might as well just have 1 RWD, 1 AWD, and 1 FWD and then just change the way they look if you can't put more realism into it than that. I think there's quite a bit that can be made more realistic, without losing potential customers.

Improving realism, and seeking perfection are two seperate issues.

 

[Hajaz]

Face it. You are just upset that GT has awesome graphics, tracks and cars, yet it doesnt handle like your PC sims. Sorry, but the world doesnt spin at your whim

actually Earth, it looks like youre the one who is upset by the recent reports that GT4 has gone hardcore, and by the new video that clearly shows the tougher physics, AI and the higher sense of speed.

Why else would you make a stupid thread like this?

 

[Dave A]

I personally am all up for GT turning into a harcore sim, and according to that article it has done so 👍, the simple fact it, GT is meant to be a sim, so it should actually be a sim then, if your content with cars not losing control no matter how hard you brake or accelerate into or out of a corner, don't play sim's it's as simple as that.

Also Hajaz, what video are you talking about that shown all that?

 

[Cosmic]

the new video that clearly shows the tougher physics, AI and the higher sense of speed.

Wrooong.
Ehhmm , the AI is not improved and it's not going to be tougher in GT4.

 

[Earth]

Mr. SaintKamus,

Your speech is shocking. Who can listen to it? You say have never played a sim? Before I answer that how much of the GT series have you and Mr. Kev played? Yes I have played sims. My favorite being NR2003, a game the Forza developers praised for having ultra real physics and tire models. I have won 63 online races in 2 years playing the game, in fields of cars that number as many as 42. It isnt easy beating 42 drivers to the finish line, especially when the cars are equal power and setup wise.

Why split GT up into really 2 games, one for ubers sim people, and one for the more relaxed gamer? GT has always leaned toward the relaxed gamer and will still that way.

actually Earth, it looks like youre the one who is upset by the recent reports that GT4 has gone hardcore, and by the new video that clearly shows the tougher physics, AI and the higher sense of speed.

Why else would you make a stupid thread like this?

Well Mr. Hajaz, for a noob as yourself to come in here and call my thread stupid is quite a brave move on your part. Obviously you havent been here very long to see how stupid some of these threads can really be, then, only then could you have respect for topics such as this.

I'm happy GT has gone hardcore. I'm glad its tougher to handle, IN SOME CASES. When the DS2 becomes obsolete PD has gone too far. So far it looks like the advantage with the wheel is minimal. Whch is good. Seasoned drivers with a wheel should be able to turn in better lap times. But it shouldnt get to a point where DS2 guys cant control the cars any longer or are far from being competitive.

 

[Earth]

the simple fact it, GT is meant to be a sim, so it should actually be a sim then, if your content with cars not losing control no matter how hard you brake or accelerate into or out of a corner, don't play sim's it's as simple as that.

For the last 6 years, in all 3 GT games I have played CARS DO SPIN when braking too hard (mostly bad braking line), and they do SPIN if you accelerate too hard coming out of a corner at low speed or turn the wheel too much. But from what you said it seems you think GT does not recreate this enough. Sorry, but that is the way GT has handled or 6 years. You should have complained after #1, not after #3 and 90% of the way to #4

You want GT to go the way of the dodo, oh, I mean PC sim, sorry, my friends, its not happening.

 

[Pak]

Earth, WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM?

- there's nothing wrong with a sim mode when there's also a arcade mode so stfu
- way more than 5% of the people would like to see a hardcore simmode, GT would also appeal to a larger market (the current PC simracers)
- A lot of people think that THE DIFFERENCES IN CARS, LEARNING THE CARS IS FUN AND CHALLENGING

Cars in GT4 WILL NEVER HANDLE exacly like their real word counterparts. Rreason being is if they did handle EXACTLY like the real cars 95% of us couldnt drive them competivly.

You don't have to race against the best racers in the world, AI can be adjusted you know :|
'GT4 has gone hardcore' I don't see why PD wouldn't want GT to handle exactly like real life. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH A SIM-MODE AND ARCADE MODE IN ONE GAME

Also PD may never have the time to get real world data for every single car. That is why they rely on one physics engline to calculate car weight, power etc to judge how it handles. Other games like GTR, NR2003 have one or a few types of cars to model physics for. That is how they can get it more true to life.

:||| If the physics engine is advanced enough it can simulate real life, you won't have to add weird things. If it simulates every part in the car the car will drive like they do in real life. I think that is the ultimate goal for PD.

So to all those who want ultra real damage and ultra real handling for all the cars, the truth is, if GT3 had that you would still be trying to beat the game today.

And a lot of people would still be having so much fun.

 

[Dave A]

Well said Pak. As for complaining after GT1, I didn't have the interweb back then, I've only had it for 2 years and GT3 was out by then.

 

[Earth]

Earth, WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM?

- there's nothing wrong with a sim mode when there's also a arcade mode so stfu
- way more than 5% of the people would like to see a hardcore simmode, GT would also appeal to a larger market (the current PC simracers)
- A lot of people think that THE DIFFERENCES IN CARS, LEARNING THE CARS IS FUN AND CHALLENGING

Mr. Pak,

To compare arcade mode to simulation mode, as if they offered the same experience is outright wrong. This is wher the greed starts to show with you sim guys. You want to take our SIM mode and leave us the junk arcade mode. As for the PC sim market humans, GT offers a superb wheel, and which I hear unseeable aids are turned off when it is in use. That is for you. Be glad they gave you even that. How many people do you know want to spend 2 years figuring out how to drive 500 cars?

You don't have to race against the best racers in the world, AI can be adjusted you know :|
'GT4 has gone hardcore' I don't see why PD wouldn't want GT to handle exactly like real life. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH A SIM-MODE AND ARCADE MODE IN ONE GAME

Why doesnt PD make it handle like real? Well if they did they would lose 60%+ of their fan base

 

[Dave A]

No Earth youir wrong, KY's dream is to vreate the most realistic racing game covering the widest variety of cars, tracks and competitions ever. He intends to include things like damage and to continue upping the realism as and when the hardware can cope. As for the game being a sim, if you like the cars easier to control, turn some of the aids on smple as that, then it's a proper sim that can be tailored to suit you as well.

 

[Pak]

Mr. Pak,

To compare arcade mode to simulation mode, as if they offered the same experience is outright wrong. This is wher the greed starts to show with you sim guys. You want to take our SIM mode and leave us the junk arcade mode. As for the PC sim market humans, GT offers a superb wheel, and which I hear unseeable aids are turned off when it is in use. That is for you. Be glad they gave you even that.

Uhm, heard of driving aids? There could be one career mode with 2 or 3 difficulty options.

How many people do you know want to spend 2 years figuring out how to drive 500 cars?

You don't NEED to do that, especially not if there were difficulty options for the same career mode. And most importantly.. For many people who love driving and racing, 'figuring out how the car handles', is a FUN thing. So if you had 500+ cars you would have an unlimited amount of replay value.. Figuring out all those cars would be great.

Why doesnt PD make it handle like real? Well if they did they would lose 60%+ of their fan base

I already said why they wouldn't by now.

 

[Earth]

No Earth youir wrong, KY's dream is to vreate the most realistic racing game covering the widest variety of cars, tracks and competitions ever. He intends to include things like damage and to continue upping the realism as and when the hardware can cope. As for the game being a sim, if you like the cars easier to control, turn some of the aids on smple as that, then it's a proper sim that can be tailored to suit you as well.

If this is the case, I wonder what is taking him so long, because GT 1-3 all had similiar handling.

GT1 to me, seemed tougher to drive then GT3

 

[Pak]

If this is the case, I wonder what is taking him so long, because GT 1-3 all had similiar handling.

GT1 to me, seemed tougher to drive then GT3

Because the PSone can't handle such complex physics and GT3 was rushed. GT4 is the first major improvement.

 

[Robin]

GT4 will probably the most thought through, and worked on title in the GT series that has ever been released.....this is what PD hopes is the height of the PS2's power....if there is anything to show how good the ps2 can cope after all these years......GT4 is the game to prove it!

 

[askia47]

.............................

 

[askia47]

Judging from what you guys are saying, alot of fans will be lost

 

[CYD]

GT4P/GT3 is a real driving sim. Just not a 100% accurate real driving sim. If it was 10)% accurate sim, you may need an oxygen mask to handle the g-forces that some of the higher HP cars put out. ON top of of that, the "plastic" steering wheels would need real air bags to dampen your crash when you fly into a wall with the amount of G's you would have from spinning off course at 140 mph because you didn't notice that it was off camber...

I enjoy the "sim" factor provided by GT3/4P When in a corner and let off the gas it will lose traction and start drifting. The fact that I can shift the body weight of the car to slide the back end into a corner, let's me know that the car handles similar to how my car does.

Sure it would be nice if they could implement a clutch so that I could shift lock into corners. I appreciate that if you don't have smooth accel/braking into a corner that you can possibly upset the chassis/suspension and lose traction. And that changing the rebound dampening and other suspensions settings will greatly effect braking/acceleration and corner handling of the car. This to me is what SIM should do. The more fine tuned a car can be the better.

I am also greatful that I don't have to worry about tuning the engine, dealing with carb's and/or a/f mixtures. Running lean or rich or worrying about detonation. There's a point where a game goes beyond being just a game. GT has always been about being a game, that represents a racing simulation.

An non-sim, or Arcade racer like Cruisn' USA or something doesn't have this. You just point the car and gas and away you go. I believe whether a game constrains to real life physics or not decide whether it is arcade or sim, atleast for me. NFS Games = Arcade...
Rallysport, Colin McRae = Sims. MotoGP = Sim.

My .02

~CYD

 

[kamkor]

GT handles like a sim more than any console game, so thats enough at this point and time.

No you are wrong. Try Richard Burns Rally.

NFS Games = Arcade...
Rallysport, Colin McRae = Sims. MotoGP = Sim.

Hmm.. Are you sure that you mean this? Maybe your list should look like this:

NFS Games = arcade, Rallysport challange1&2 = arcade, CMR = arcade, MotoGP = arcade.