I'm going to be mean: What does Toyota have against good looking front fascias?

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Actually I prefer the 06-_ Explorer over the 02-05, I prefer the newer Focus, and I prefer the Freestar. To me the Five Hundred made no gain or loss. Yes the Expedition and Freestyle look worse. As for the ZX2... God help it.
 
There is a difference between the two companies: Ford restyled those cars so they could pass most of them off as new when they were a few years old. Toyota hacked up the front end of those cars mostly because they could. And none of those Fords were really good looking to begin with.
Besides, the 500 looks so much better in person than it ever did before.

M5Power
and I prefer the Freestar.
True story: When I was little I always though Ford had bought Caravans from Dodge to sell at Ford dealers because of how lawsuit-worthingly similar they were all the way up to the renaming to Freestar.
 

Besides, the 500 looks so much better in person than it ever did before.

So very true.

True story: When I was little I always though Ford had bought Caravans from Dodge to sell at Ford dealers because of how lawsuit-worthingly similar they were all the way up to the renaming to Freestar.

:lol: What I loved is how they both debuted about the same time (Ford in 1995 and Chrysler in 1996) but Ford's spies didn't figure out that Chrysler would have dual sliding doors - so before they were out a year the 'all new' Ford Windstar was already outdated.
 
Actually I prefer the 06-_ Explorer over the 02-05, I prefer the newer Focus, and I prefer the Freestar. To me the Five Hundred made no gain or loss. Yes the Expedition and Freestyle look worse. As for the ZX2... God help it.
The original Focus was such a cool looking car. I find the update very boring. Explorer and Expedition, I used to think those two were couple of really great looking SUVs in their class. I find them hideous now. :yuck: Five Hundred, I think it comes down to the grille for me. ZX2, I just don't get how some people could love that face. I guess it's the same way with me and Scion xB for some people. Acquired taste? :sly:
 
No - no one could possibly acquire the taste required to like the ZX2. Or even tolerate it.

How can you not still like the Explorer?! Whenever someone returns one to our rental office I scramble for the keys. They're such nice cars with such nice rides and the door handles are so cool. :D
 
And none of those Fords were really good looking to begin with.
Debatable. Some of those designs are well liked by their customer base..... obviously, not you. :lol:

True story: When I was little I always though Ford had bought Caravans from Dodge to sell at Ford dealers because of how lawsuit-worthingly similar they were all the way up to the renaming to Freestar.
Really? I never noticed.

Edit:
How can you not still like the Explorer?! Whenever someone returns one to our rental office I scramble for the keys. They're such nice cars with such nice rides and the door handles are so cool. :D
I haven't driven one yet. Knock on wood. :D
 
Debatable. Some of those designs are well liked by their customer base..... obviously, not you. :lol:
I like the Escort (both the old one and the ZX2). But compared to the Celica? Pft. The same goes for the Focus. All of Ford's SUV's were nice, but I'd hardly call them original or outstanding. And I have never heard anyone saying the liked the styling of the 500. And no one bought the Freestyle, though I did like that as well.

a6m5
Really? I never noticed.
Tomorrow I will post picture comparisons of the spots that make me surprised no lawsuits were filed.
 
Wait.. I thought Toyota had surpassed GM?

Kinda sorta.

GM beat Toyota in Q2 sales by a pretty slim margin (less than 100K vehicles), but I believe Toyota still had the lead by a few thousand vehicles (I want to say less than 100K again).

Its neck-and-neck, and while Toyota wants to take the day, GM won't give up without a fight. The big problem has been that GM pretty much decided to stop the whole rental fleet thing, and where GM left off, Toyota was happy to take over. We'll see what happens by March or April...

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Toronado
Didn't GM still own Subaru when the B9 Tribeca came out?

It was a hair-splitting difference there if I recall. That was the era when the plan was to have Saabaru (Saab and Subaru) developing cars and crossovers together, and the plan was for Saab to use the B9 as the "9-6X", or something along those lines. But GM dumped Fuji, cut the ties off at the 9-2X, and smartly decided not to return, and to furthermore dump Isuzu and Suzuki while they were at it...

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As for the question of the Ford Fivehundred/Taurus, I'd have to say that I preferred the Mondeo-esque looks of the Fivehundred over that of the new "Red, White, and Bold" Taurus. It just looks so chunky, and just plain awkward against some of the other models in its class, it just isn't right. Sure, the origional was about as bland as buttered toast, but it was good toast, so it wasn't that bad.

...Although the Buick Lucerne continues to eat it alive in looks and overall appeal (IMO), but thats another thread...
 
I like the Escort (both the old one and the ZX2). But compared to the Celica? Pft. The same goes for the Focus. All of Ford's SUV's were nice, but I'd hardly call them original or outstanding. And I have never heard anyone saying the liked the styling of the 500. And no one bought the Freestyle, though I did like that as well.
I liked Five Hundred(just the looks, it drives like a pos).... It was more boring than ugly with that car, I think. :guilty: Freestyle did good in the beginning, and I actually thought it handled alright for what it was. It is ridiculously underpowered though. I think that's what killed it.

Tomorrow I will post picture comparisons of the spots that make me surprised no lawsuits were filed.
Okey dokey. 👍
 
You have the strangest taste, Brad!

I dunno, there is just something "good" about the Lucerne (Super shown)



The 500 just looks too "odd" by comparison...

five1.jpg


...Although, its technically supposed to compete with the W-Body cars...







And in that case alone, I'd pick the Bowtie. Theres just something about a $30K, 303 BHP, FWD sedan that can do 0-60 in 5.7 seconds and top out at 155 MPH...
 
Awwww, come on! The Pontiac actually has some sporting potential, as they designed the chassis/tire combo to do so... Can't say the same for Chevrolet and Buick, but hey, it works...

...The Impala SS, in black, its just awesome. People who aren't paying attention would likely be caught off-guard by the performance of the car...

But, I'm eagerly awaiting my Zeta cars. We deserve to have RWD, V8s, manual transmission options, and a damn good reason to give the guys in Germany the finger again. Plus, they look pretty good...

cspchevyss25uu8.jpg


g8prototype002gl7.jpg


Hooray for (mostly) American cars that you can be proud to drive!
 
DWA
If all those were my only choices I'd want to slit my wrists instead...

:lol:

They're actually not so bad. The Grand Prix is marginally fun to drive even in base spec so I bet the supercharged or V8 ones are cool. The Impala sucks but as Brad says - the SS one is pretty hot. The Lacrosse is trash.

Honestly I drive Freestyles regularly and because the CVT keeps you in power band if you want to be kept there I have no problems with their acceleration. I have only driven one Five Hundred but noted the same thing. However I would love to drive a new Taurus with the 263hp V6.
 
Honestly I drive Freestyles regularly and because the CVT keeps you in power band if you want to be kept there I have no problems with their acceleration. I have only driven one Five Hundred but noted the same thing. However I would love to drive a new Taurus with the 263hp V6.
Freestyle is rated to tow 2,000 lbs. I can see myself getting killed on highway doing that. I agree on the new engine. That can only help!
 
:lol:

They're actually not so bad. The Grand Prix is marginally fun to drive even in base spec so I bet the supercharged or V8 ones are cool. The Impala sucks but as Brad says - the SS one is pretty hot. The Lacrosse is trash.

I love driving our Grand Prix ('99), and my Aunt's ('06) is even better. Technically though, the Grand Prixs all shifted a level when the GXP came out, so even the "base" model is actually a GT, the GT took over where the GTP left off, and the GXP took the top spot. They all perform decently well, and furthermore, are still sold at a pretty good price. You can get a "base" with the 3800 and a fair amount of options for well-under $25K here, which IMO is a steal. But, the Impala cuts that by almost two grand...

And hey, can't the LaCrosse Super get off like the Impala SS? I mean, they are the same car after all...

Honestly I drive Freestyles regularly and because the CVT keeps you in power band if you want to be kept there I have no problems with their acceleration. I have only driven one Five Hundred but noted the same thing. However I would love to drive a new Taurus with the 263hp V6.

I drove an Ion with the CVT, and I hope I never have to drive another vehicle with it again. It was just a bit too odd for my tastes... I like the whole "gear" thing...

But yes, the new V6 has made the Ford lineup a bit more lively again. I'm looking forward to the Flex, as it looks the part of a decent crossover (not that the Taurus X is horrible...), and furthermore, joins the Fusion as one of a few models that actually pulls off the "Red, White, and Bold" look well.
 
Has anyone else noticed that the original explorer is the size of an Escape, and that the current explorer is the size of an Original expedition?

So.. The reason they killed the Excursion was to put the Expedition on growth hormones. mmm rBGH. :yuck: Come on, you know the Expedition is a cow.
 
True story: Back in 2003, the line worker at Toyota lost his little pug puppies to a thief. In sadness over this loss, all future Toyotas would be designed in memory of these:

pug2006.jpg


At least, that's what I was told during in my brainwashing sessions at Lexus.
 
Your Honor, I'd like to exhibit some further evidence to support Toyota's "uglification," using Toyota's perennial volume seller, the Camry.

We'll start with the fourth generation Camry. Conservative, but it looked good, In my opinion, the high point of the Camry line. This was discontinued in 2001.

01.toyota.camry.500.jpg


For 2002, the car was replaced by this one, not so bad, but really not that good..

Toyota%20Camry%202006.jpg


and now, in 2007, we get....

101_0208.jpg


The Schnozz to end all Schnozz, production division.

The Prosecution rests.
 
...You forgot the best-looking Camry...



My Mom had a forest green, '95 sedan "special edition" that she drove for 13 years before shoving it off to my brother and replacing it with a Pontiac Grand Prix. IMO, it was the last truly good-looking Camry, one of the shining examples of when Toyota actually put effort into their cars, and it showed.
 
I dunno, I like the more aerodynamic 4th Gen compared to the 3rd Gen in terms of looks. I think the 3rd Gen is too easy to confuse with a Subaru Legacy of the same vintage, especially the Wagon...
 
I drove an Ion with the CVT, and I hope I never have to drive another vehicle with it again. It was just a bit too odd for my tastes... I like the whole "gear" thing...
I think it being an Ion may have tinted your views a bit negatively.
M5Power
You like how it looks you mean?
Of course. If I wanted a wagon I would buy an LT-1 Roadmaster.


Anyways, vans:
Generation 1:
9820ford20windstareq2.jpg

gcaravan97ve8.jpg

73271998fordwindstarwg1.jpg

016a3pcz0.jpg

96windstarys1.jpg

dodgecaravaney6.jpg

It was always the rearend (especially the tailights) that threw me.
 
The answer...

I guess bad styling comes with being the World's biggest.

...to the question...

Wait.. I thought Toyota had surpassed GM?


More realistically, I'm not sure why so many American cars look so bad. I think they're just desperate, and now that I think of it I can't recall a single US designer. It may be because designers aren't headliners like they are elsewhere, but I think it's because they stink. Thinking more on it, I remember a lot of American names that left for European shores....

The Japanese, on the other hand, just do this kind of thing every so often. I remember reading some time ago (~15 years or so) that in terms of art and design, the Japanese know "beauty" when they see it, but they have problems discerning "ugly". So while the Yaris and Camry may not be considered "beautiful" to them, they may not care enough since they can't quite see how "fugly" such a low-budget car is. How exactly that explains the Impreza and Lexus is beyond me. I think they're all just trying too hard. Change for the sake of change.
 
kinda like what subaru did with the impreza. then the fixed it and broke it again
Good
250px-1995_subaru_impreza_sportswagon.jpg

Bad
images

to good
images

to not as good
images

to WTF??
images



but hey thats just my opinion
 
Has anyone else noticed that the original explorer is the size of an Escape, and that the current explorer is the size of an Original expedition?
Haven't noticed/isn't true. Current Escape is 174.7 inches long; original Explorer was 184.3 inches. Current Explorer is 193.4 inches long; original Expedition was 204.6 inches. The vehicles still have a loooooong way to go before they reach the levels you're talking about.
 
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