Impossible Gear-Shift Speed On Arcade!

  • Thread starter Thread starter doctor-wilson
  • 41 comments
  • 4,273 views
doctor-wilson

doctor-wilson

Messages
24
Messages
doctor-wilson
I've been trying to top the arcade time trial on Eiger Nordwand (pro setting) Ferrari F430 now since GT5P was released and am very frustrated at not being able to improve enough. I watched the replay of the guy in top spot and now know why! The upshift speed for that player is almost instantaneous as they seem to select neutral for a nano-second while upshifting resulting in a revs boost and faster change / greater acceleration. I notice the N flicker on downshifts also. Is this a 'feature' of having a steering wheel or some kind of trick used in the settings? I could not see a clutch option in the setting for the pad or steering wheels. Am I wasting my time trying to compete without a steering wheel?
 
For sure... the G25 means you can use the clutch, meaning you can shift as a fast as humanly possible (faster than a computer ;) )

The game simulates the time needed to clutch in real-life when using no-clutch....its a little slow.
 
so thats a bit wierd...beceause(in real life) in the ferrari599 for example,when you pull the pedal it up or downshifsts in 0,8 miliseconds,so thats not possible to beat by hand....
think there should be a bigger "gearchanging" difference in the different cars(manual/sequential/automatic/etc etc)beceause now it seems you can overide some cars with the g25 with clutch,and that is just not right!!!...
anyway,since the latest updates lots is improved,so i have high hopes that in the future cars will change their gears as they do in real life,and so you will not be able to change gears in a manual car in a nanosecond using a manual(?) g25 gearbox....
jep,i know thats tough,but it seems odd to me that this is possible,or better said:not rorrected yet...
spyrrari.
 
In that case it looks to me like there is a collosal advantage in using the G25 in time trial. At the very least the input device should be displayed (along with the other car settings) within the players ranking area in the table. At the most the rankings could be split between the steering wheel and pad users. This way I wouldn't be competing against players it is not possible to beat.
 
To be honest I'd never even thought that the gearchange speed could be an influence in the times, though I guess it makes sense. To me, it just seems that, for professional mode at least, the steering wheel and pedals have an advantage over the pad through the more delicate movements a player is capable of.
 
So your telling me that pad users which have to wait a second for a gearchange and get blown away on straights have an advantage over the wheel? Nonsense. I don't want to have a wheel cluttering up my living room but think I may get one if it is the only way I can compete against 'wheel cheats'.
 
The F430, with it's F1-style transmission, completes shifts in about 150 milliseconds, which I doubt any human with a stick could accomplish. Also, the G25 has flappy paddles on it, wouldn't it be more realistic if cars like the F430 were "locked" to only using the paddles?

Anyways, just makes me want a wheel more and makes me feel better than I can rarely do better than top 30 with the sixaxis.
 
Ahaaaa....

Does this apply to all kind of cars ?

Im asking because I do have a similar problem with the Time-Trial on FUJI 700PP in the Nissan GTR R35.

Im using the Sixaxis too and clearly see an advantage during accelerating for the 6 (!) drivers which are in front of me in the rankings.
(Its not transmission settings, its not suspension setup, its not tyre-grip - I TRIED EVERYTHING ! - They simply outperform me while accelerating ! Though its not much, just 10th of a second as I am 0.6 sec behind the leader for the complete lap)

So if this advantage is caused by using the G25 it would be awful for all Pad-users.
If there was an info of the controller everyone uses it would become clear...

I cant believe I've (possibly) done hundreds of laps for nothing because of using the pad I havent got any chance at all...
 
Type_R_
Wheel users are 'wheel cheaters' on a sim driving game.Howe is that posible?
Click to expand...

If you can buy a peice of hardware that gives an advantage then it is clearly cheating. What next? A NOS button?

I'm joking BTW. I know its a driving game.
 
doctor-wilson
If you can buy a peice of hardware that gives an advantage then it is clearly cheating. What next? A NOS button?

I'm joking BTW. I know its a driving game.
Click to expand...

Next is a device which has a autopilot feature.
You can set it up to 200 percent and win everything.

The price will be 25.000 EUR though....
 
the sixaxis is a LOT easier to use than the G25, and chances are you wouldn't be able to replicate your sixaxis times on the G25 without doing another 2000 laps (learning curve on G25 + clutch is steep)
 
All that they need to do is implement lift up on upshift for the steering wheel just like LFS has it, and then the times should be about similar on wheel and controller.

At the end of the day though, I would imagine that a person with a wheel will get a better laptime due to better control of where to point the car to.
 
There's a price to pay to use the G25 and clutch. Not just literally in the cost of the equipment, but the "price to pay" is more about the learning curve it takes to get good with the G25 and how unforgiving it can be when you are racing online and make a mistake shifting up or downshifting during breaking.

A G25 wheel with clutch doesn't make you faster than a pad or a wheel without clutch, your understanding of how to drive faster makes you a faster driver.
 
The F430 and 599 GTB in the game come with the traditional manual transmission, despite the incar showing paddles.
 
Driving a car fast with steering wheel and pedals,encluding clutch,is an art of its own.When using pad to replase those 'hardwares',thats cheating!
 
BreakerOhio
There's a price to pay to use the G25 and clutch. Not just literally in the cost of the equipment, but the "price to pay" is more about the learning curve it takes to get good with the G25 and how unforgiving it can be when you are racing online and make a mistake shifting up or downshifting during breaking.

A G25 wheel with clutch doesn't make you faster than a pad or a wheel without clutch, your understanding of how to drive faster makes you a faster driver.
Click to expand...

Yes the learning curve is difficult, I think its because its not to realistic not to say I don't like it.
I like the fact that the clutch catches in the middle of its throw and not right away, but I do not like how it can only be engaged with %100, even if you are pressing your pedal 60%. This is its only fault. :ouch:
 
The ferraris and cars with the dsg gearboxes should shift much faster then they do now. The g25 also has the disadvantage that from time to time you will miss third and get first. Followed by a spin into the grass. In real life you don't have that problem, mainly because the car isn't going to go into first at 150km/h
 
I like the G25 users making out they're at a disadvantage using the wheel with nonsense comments about the learning curves and missing gears. Here's the reality. From what I have seen with the wheel, the car accelerates significantly faster in a straight line. It's so obvious from the replay. In time trial mode this is a MASSIVE advantage. Fact.
 
doctor-wilson
I like the G25 users making out they're at a disadvantage using the wheel with nonsense comments about the learning curves and missing gears. Here's the reality. From what I have seen with the wheel, the car accelerates significantly faster in a straight line. It's so obvious from the replay. In time trial mode this is a MASSIVE advantage. Fact.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is making it sound as the G25 is at a disadvantage. There are pros and cons to a wheel, to using clutch, and to a pad. I list you the cons because most know what the pros are. Wheels have more direct feel for the road with feedback and better control.

I let so many GT pad users try my wheel, and they are horrible at it off the bat. Why? because there IS a learning curve. If you've never owned a GT Logitech wheel or driven GT with a wheel, you won't see immediate results without practice. That's the point of describing the learning curve. It's not about us saying we have it harder. It gets easier after practice.

Watch all those game reviews and watch the journalist jump into the cockpits. You'd think they didn't know how to drive after watching their first run. They are spinning and can't keep the car straight. The point with the responses is to help this thread stay with the facts...aware that even having a wheel you will have to learn how to drive fast using it. Game Pad and wheel play differently.


I'm curious to see these replays and yours too.
I'll check out what you are finding tonight and see if I can see this happening too. There are benefits to the clutch. But that's a different topic then this one. :)
 
doctor-wilson
I like the G25 users making out they're at a disadvantage using the wheel with nonsense comments about the learning curves and missing gears. Here's the reality. From what I have seen with the wheel, the car accelerates significantly faster in a straight line. It's so obvious from the replay. In time trial mode this is a MASSIVE advantage. Fact.
Click to expand...

Is it possible to prove this? I am having a problem in the sense that some ghost replays are killing me on acceleration despite me being faster on the brakes, at the apex and on the exit. If it is a case of getting a steering wheel then I am willing to take my pain and buy one.

But I need proof first. Why do you say it is a fact? :dunce:
 
There is a learning curve... I've tried once. Went in with a big smile, anticipating the power slides and the controlled drifting and came out thinking wth is wrong with me? I forgot how to drive!!!

But there is also and unfair advantage when you get used to it considering you have the same gear changing times on (almost) every car, with the controller. Even in cars you know have the ability to be fast, like M3 or F430. I say almost because the Skyline concept is lightning fast on gear changing for example. It's one of my favorites for drifting because I can shift up in the middle of a wide drift with no problems. And that proves it can be done, like it already was with the GT-R concept on GT4.

It's also stupid to allow use of the H in the G25 in those cars, with the including reduction on number of gears in the IS-F reported in this forum somewhere else. It was supposed to have 8 gears, not 6.

Just like I said before that electronic aids available should replicate those available in the real car, both in existence and working manner (it's levels, efficiency, etc), cars with DGS and such should change fast on the sixaxis and not be able to be manual on G25.

That's simulation.
 
I'm finding the G25 clutch & H-shifter very hard to use. It is easy to miss a throw & dump the car into the wrong gear: from 5th into 2nd instead of 4th, from 2nd into 5th instead of 3rd etc. Also, to miss the timing on the clutch & dump the car into N :ouch:

The reason for this, is that there's no real feel to the shift or the clutch action. The strange thing is, I find some cars much easier to shift than others - I am finding the NSX particularly tricky - & I'm starting to think maybe the different cars have a different activation point for the clutch. It doesn't seem likely that they would have implemented such a sophisticated variation on the clutch action - has anyone else noticed this, or am I just imagining it?

Either way, I'm working on it: but there's no question in my mind that I would be quicker without the clutch, or just sequential shifting - there's just less to think about & it's easier to concentrate on the steering & braking.
 

Latest Posts

Back